So they think she has whooping cough- help me stay calm

[myorianna]

I'm in the bay area, California, DD is 2.5 years old and not vaccinated except for a single DTaP at 6 months (long story).

Turns out my sister came over 3 weeks ago with a "cold" that had her coughing for two weeks. A week after her visit, DD also started a cold. Mild fever for 2 days, runny nose. I didn't think anything of it. A week later, she started coughing- mainly at night. Now, a week after that (2 weeks in), we have had 4 nights of no sleep- her coughing and throwing up 1-2 times. It sounds like a wet cough, but nothing seems to come up...

DH took her to the Dr. today, and they said it sounds just like all the other WC cases they have seen in the area. Gave us an antibiotic prescription. Don't worry- I wont be giving it to her. They swabbed her and supposedly will have the results back in 2 days.

I am freaking out here. I have read about SA here, so that is the first thing I have started. She is 30 lbs, so I think that means about 3/4 tsp a day. What else should I be doing? How long will she be contagious? We both work, and she usually goes to school 3x/week- I assume we wont be sending her now- not sure how we can make arrangements but we can figure something out hopefully.

Just panicking and need some advice/support...

[amnesiac]

Since this is about dealing with illness rather vaccines I'm moving over to H&H.

[chaoticzenmom]

Why won't you be giving her the anti-biotics? I don't see what would be the harm in giving the abx with pro-biotics.

Make sure to avoid dairy and citrus because they cause thicker mucous.

I hope she feels better soon.

[AllyRae]

Yeah, that...antibiotics have a time and place. With WC, it reduces the period of contagiousness from almost 3ish weeks to 5 days.

Although I wouldn't give them *with* probiotics...antibiotics+probiotics=dead biotics. Make sure to give them a few hours apart.

[Carrie Posey]

Did your doctor take a swab sample from inside her nose to confirm? We had a scare a few years ago-turned out to be a cough...

[myorianna]

Originally Posted by Carrie Posey

Did your doctor take a swab sample from inside her nose to confirm? We had a scare a few years ago-turned out to be a cough...

Yeah...they took 2 swabs from inside her nose and we will know by Monday. But all the symptoms so far have been right on track for WC.

As for the antibiotics- I have read that they actually prolong the duration of the symptoms and cause higher likelihood of complications...(result of working for a pharma company, I get access to all the medical journals). Yes, it helps to reduce transmission, and obviously if I don't give her the antibiotics then I wouldn't be taking her to school anytime soon.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
Quote:"Children who received an antibiotic had a duration of cough 6 to 11 days longer and spasmodic cough 4 to 13 days longer than untreated patients.

It has been reported that erythromycin reduces the severity and duration of disease when started early.8 We used a stringent definition of antibiotic treatment and a duration of treatment of 7 days based on the observation that this course of therapy is comparable to 14 days.18 Although this study was not designed specifically for estimating antibiotic clinical efficacy, antibiotic treatment was found to be a marker of severe disease, a finding that is similar to the results of previous studies.10 Despite recommendations that treatment be started early for improving the clinical course of the disease, most trials on the efficacy of antibiotics in patients with pertussis have focused on the eradication of B pertussis rather than on the duration of symptoms.19 This issue probably deserves more attention in future studies"

Another one:
Clinical Infectious Diseases 1992;14:708-719 "Epidemiological Features of Pertussis in the United States, 1980 - 1989" Farizo K M. et al.
page 714 under the table
"when treatment with erythromycin was initiated... the duration of cough tended to be even longer than for persons who did not receive erythromycin at all."


What I don't know is how to best treat this the natural way...

[momma_unlimited]

My kiddo had it around that age, and I had a 7mo breastfed baby who luckily did not develop it even though he got coughed on by big brother (yea for breastfeeding immunity!). The homeopathic remedy pertussinum worked great, but you'll get better results by giving it sooner rather than later.

Also, we did a lot of aromatherapy (like eucalyptus and peppermint in the vaporizer), really light diet with lots of herbal teas and the big one is plenty of convalescence time- we didn't go anywhere for two weeks. DS got a fever and withing a day or two developed the cough, then it was gone within 3 days but I still kept him home for 10 more days to be sure.

Never did take him to the doc or give him abx, glad I didn't. He was stronger and heartier after his body took the challenge and won the healing crisis.

[moonglowmama]

Originally Posted by myorianna

I am freaking out here. I have read about SA here, so that is the first thing I have started. She is 30 lbs, so I think that means about 3/4 tsp a day. What else should I be doing? How long will she be contagious? We both work, and she usually goes to school 3x/week- I assume we wont be sending her now- not sure how we can make arrangements but we can figure something out hopefully.

Just panicking and need some advice/support...

What is SA? Wish I knew more of what you could do. Isn't mega-doses of vit. c good for pertussis?

[Pattyla]

I have always heard vitamin C for pertussis. So I would do SA to bowel tolerance plus anything you usually do for supporting the immune system. Vitamin D would also be a good one to supplement. I have stopped colds dead taking mega doses of vitamin D.

[japonica]

Originally Posted by myorianna

I'm in the bay area, California, DD is 2.5 years old and not vaccinated except for a single DTaP at 6 months (long story).

Turns out my sister came over 3 weeks ago with a "cold" that had her coughing for two weeks. A week after her visit, DD also started a cold. Mild fever for 2 days, runny nose. I didn't think anything of it. A week later, she started coughing- mainly at night. Now, a week after that (2 weeks in), we have had 4 nights of no sleep- her coughing and throwing up 1-2 times. It sounds like a wet cough, but nothing seems to come up...

DH took her to the Dr. today, and they said it sounds just like all the other WC cases they have seen in the area. Gave us an antibiotic prescription. Don't worry- I wont be giving it to her. They swabbed her and supposedly will have the results back in 2 days.

I am freaking out here. I have read about SA here, so that is the first thing I have started. She is 30 lbs, so I think that means about 3/4 tsp a day. What else should I be doing? How long will she be contagious? We both work, and she usually goes to school 3x/week- I assume we wont be sending her now- not sure how we can make arrangements but we can figure something out hopefully.

Just panicking and need some advice/support...

((HUGS)) You should be just fine...hang in there.

My DS was 23 months old when we went through it.

SA...I started him to bowel tolerance rather than just using the standard dose. So, if I recall, he was on about 4g a day--about a tsp a day--spaced throughout the day in the beginning...I did 1g, 4x a day. I waited to see what the result would be in the diaper dept. and with the paroxysmal coughing and whooping, then I would taper it down once we started to see improvement. It took a couple days at that dose (and the BMs were no fun...like seven a day, poor kid and we had to use a ton of rash cream on him, even though the SA is buffered, it was still acidic on his behind), but then once the whooping was declined and he was sleeping through the night again (!!!) then I could start to drop the dose. It was a balancing act for a while...keep the dose high enough to mitigate the toxin and reduce the coughing but low enough to stop the scoury BMs.

We also had a vaporizer going all night, every night.

I never bothered with antibiotics. I read that 1) they can prolong the illness and make it worse 2) only help to reduce communicability and we can do that by quarantine and 3) do not help the course of illness once he has started coughing

We kept him home for three weeks. I found the info on the CDC site. Three weeks is recommended if not taking antibiotics, one week if you choose to take them.

Within a few days, the whooping and vomiting had subsided. By a week, the paroxysmal coughing was down to just a few episodes a day and once or twice a night...compared to the first few nights before the SA where the poor kid was coughing every few minutes.

Hang in there...it does get better...good luck!

[japonica]

Originally Posted by moonglowmama

What is SA? Wish I knew more of what you could do. Isn't mega-doses of vit. c good for pertussis?

SA= sodium ascorbate, vitamin C buffered with sodium

[myorianna]

Thanks so much for the info! I wouldn't have thought about the diaper rash thing at all... Did you use a cold mist vaporizer or the normal heat one? I initially thought she had a croupy cough and started the cold mister with some grapefruit extract drops in it. Does propping them up help the cough- I have put her on pillows but then I am awake all night making sure she stays upright...

Also, for the 3 weeks, do you know when that starts- is that when they first start coughing? This whole thing started 2 weeks ago with what I thought was a cold, but just the last 4 days have been the severe night cough with vomiting- tonight included- we already went through two towels (all the camomile w/ honey tea I tried to give her is gone).

Also with the SA, whats considered a tolerable BM? Loose but not too loose? Sorry if TMI

Originally Posted by japonica

...
We also had a vaporizer going all night, every night.

...
We kept him home for three weeks. I found the info on the CDC site. Three weeks is recommended if not taking antibiotics, one week if you choose to take them.

Within a few days, the whooping and vomiting had subsided. By a week, the paroxysmal coughing was down to just a few episodes a day and once or twice a night...compared to the first few nights before the SA where the poor kid was coughing every few minutes.

Hang in there...it does get better...good luck!

[japonica]

We have a warm mist one.

Yes, I had him propped up...I was worried about mucus and him being able to breathe. After about 4 days of bowel tolerance SA, his coughing at night wasn't so bad anymore (and he wasn't as congested), so I wasn't as fanatical about it. I was sleeping next to him, as best I could...I was keeping an ear open for any trouble. So, the tough part is also getting enough sleep for you too.

If it is really WC, the coughing starts about one week after exposure. They'll have the initial cold symptoms (runny nose, perhaps slight fever), then the cough starts...paroxysmal ones, whooping and vomiting might be present, and the cough is usually worse at night. Between coughing fits, especially during the day, they can seem just fine. My DS was running around and playing during the day, then would stop and hack, and then back to playing again.

With yours, it sounds like it took longer to set in...maybe 10 days to 2 weeks after exposure is still possible. The three weeks is supposed to be from the start of coughing. That's how long the CDC deems it infectious without antibiotics. If you take antibiotics, the recommended quarantine is just one week. So, three weeks from the day the cough started (four days ago I believe you said)...

Yeah, the vomiting was no fun. My DS did it a few times, once when he had a coughing fit after dinner. Not pleasant. He was also whooping as well...that's what clued us in as to what it was. DH had been coughing evenings and nights for weeks, but we figured it was just one of those construction site coughs he always has...but when DS started whooping with the same coughing fits, well, then we knew...

Honestly, once you get the dose of SA right and have it consistent over the days, you will see a difference if it is pertussis. Once it really started working for my DS, nights were a LOT better...everything became manageable, not abysmally awful like in the beginning.

And there's no TMI here. LOL. The BMs were loose...not bad enough to be running down his leg, so not watery, but they were very, very mushy...like no solid consistency to them...hmm...kinda like liquidy applesauce in a dipe...yuck...and yup, watch out for the rash and protect the skin...all that vitamin C was still acidic even buffered...my DS was also drinking a LOT of juice...that was the only means of us getting that much SA into him. He doesn't get juice unless it's a "treat," so that was our way to make sure he got his doses. Once we hit that super mushy BM level for a day or so, I started slowly lowering the dose of SA...he still needed enough to mitigate the toxin but 7 mushy dipes a day was no fun for either of us...so it's a balancing act for a while afterwards to get the dose "right."

And it does get better. After about 4 weeks (from the start of the cough, so 5 weeks total), my DS had recovered and was done...no complications or anything. You'll notice the number of coughing spells tapering off over time and night isn't an issue any longer. My DH (who had been vaxed for it) coughed for twice as long (8 weeks) and took a lot longer to recover...but then his diet and general health aren't as good as his son's.

Good luck!

[myorianna]

Yeah, it sounds just like what she has. One week after my sister came with her "cold", DD started her cold symptoms (along with 2 days of mild fever), then a week later the coughing started- today we heard our first "whoop".

So frustrating! I had canceled her music together class because I was worried about her catching it- then it comes through my front door. Today a commercial for pertussis came on the TV saying that 80% get it from a family member...so we are one of those statistics.

Ok, yesterday I had given her 3/4tsp of SA. Today up to 1tsp. Still allot of coughing, but it sounds like it will take a few days to get better. A few days I can handle- a few weeks of these awefull nights, not so much.

Someone told me today that in Europe, they use saline water breathing treatments for whooping cough. I wonder why they don't do that here? I guess people buy it at their local pharmacy...hmmm Maybe I should let her play with some salt, lol.

Originally Posted by japonica

...
If it is really WC, the coughing starts about one week after exposure. They'll have the initial cold symptoms (runny nose, perhaps slight fever), then the cough starts...paroxysmal ones, whooping and vomiting might be present, and the cough is usually worse at night. Between coughing fits, especially during the day, they can seem just fine. My DS was running around and playing during the day, then would stop and hack, and then back to playing again.

With yours, it sounds like it took longer to set in...maybe 10 days to 2 weeks after exposure is still possible. The three weeks is supposed to be from the start of coughing. That's how long the CDC deems it infectious without antibiotics. If you take antibiotics, the recommended quarantine is just one week. So, three weeks from the day the cough started (four days ago I believe you said)...

[japonica]

Originally Posted by myorianna

Yeah, it sounds just like what she has. One week after my sister came with her "cold", DD started her cold symptoms (along with 2 days of mild fever), then a week later the coughing started- today we heard our first "whoop".

So frustrating! I had canceled her music together class because I was worried about her catching it- then it comes through my front door. Today a commercial for pertussis came on the TV saying that 80% get it from a family member...so we are one of those statistics.

Ok, yesterday I had given her 3/4tsp of SA. Today up to 1tsp. Still allot of coughing, but it sounds like it will take a few days to get better. A few days I can handle- a few weeks of these awefull nights, not so much.

Someone told me today that in Europe, they use saline water breathing treatments for whooping cough. I wonder why they don't do that here? I guess people buy it at their local pharmacy...hmmm Maybe I should let her play with some salt, lol.

Yeah, stats show it usually comes in the front door... And since the vax doesn't prevent transmission, getting all the adults around you vaxed might not work anyway. My husband was up to date with his booster in 2002.

It does take a few days at the bowel tolerance dose for the effects to kick in...I PMed you a link to another forum where I was posting at the time DS was going through it...here was my entry into the second week of coughing, about 4-5 days after I started the SA:

Things have improved here...hitting that bowel tolerance mark for a few days makes a huge difference. We're into our second week and the whooping is gone, the gagging is gone. Now just an almost "normal" sounding deep cough (still paroxysmal) about 6-8 times an hour. He did have one of those evening coughing episodes last night (thankfully, no throwing up as in nights past), brought up some mucus, and then slept really well for the rest of the night. I'm tapering down his SA dose...he still had 6-7 loose BMs yesterday, poor kid. Otherwise, he's fine...running around, playing...the only other sign that anything is going on is how tired he gets...naps and bedtime are no problem anymore...

Keep us posted...try and get some sleep too...((HUGS)) Oh and be familiar with any signs of complications just in case...the usual suspects are ear infection and pneumonia and of course in the beginning of our go around, I was sure that DS was coming down with both (that's what worry and lack of sleep does for you). But he was fine and by week two, we could see he was getting better...