Children on the Side?

[mamaduck]

I've been thinking about what I expected motherhood to be like, before I had kids. And what most people think they want when they plan their families. It seems like many people expect kids to be an addition to their lives -- something that completes them, rounds things out for them. Part of the American Dream. Then the baby comes and instead of adding something to an already defined life -- we find that our life changes radically. That parenting transforms the way we define ourselves, our priorities, our lifestyle.

Everytime Dr. Phil (Opra Show) says "Children join OUR lives, we don't join theirs!" Or something like that -- I have to turn it off quickly before I start cursing at him through the TV screen. Comments like that just set you up to feel ripped off -- as though the inevitable changes in our priorities are actually sacrifices on our parts. The fact is, we don't integrate our children into a static family existance. Each child transforms the dynamics of the family and creates a whole new joint entity.

I imagine most of us here on this forum have surrendered to the transformative power of parenthood. But I wonder if lots of people struggle to maintain "balance" between the various aspects of their lives by raising their children "on the side." I wonder if they succeed, or if it feels like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. And either way, it can't be a good thing for a child.

Anyone else have thoughts?

[seanjoshmom]

I am surrounded by people who try to raise their children on the side. So many people who seem to be glad to be at work 12-15 hours a day and away from their children; who seem not to miss their kids at all. I wonder why they had kids, wonder how they feel about their kids. And then when they are home, they don't make an effort to really respond to them--like leaving them in baby seats or giving them pacifiers instead of holding them, crying it out for hours and hours. What's the point of having kids if you don't want to meet their needs? I work but manage to be there only half time, and feel so guilty every day. And beyond the guilt, I miss them--I want to be near them, to hold them, be there for them. I am planning on leaving work, so I can be with my boys more. I admit I am afraid to take the plunge to SAHM--it seems so hard, so overwhelming, I might get lost, never do anything for myself because I am engulfed by the needs of my twins. But I think I could take the baby step to working just two days a week.
yeah, I think there is something wrong with parenting on the side. I wonder often if this is part of why our generation is so self-centered, so entitled, so materialistic--because real emotional needs weren't met in childhood and we need fillers. I don't want my kids to grow up like that.

[Maurica]

It's our crazy society, eh?

Don't you think it's our society that fuels this "kids on the side" mentality? I always look around and think, "Geez! The world would be such a different place if we raised our kids differently!" This is where we, the APers, come in!! It's an exciting role to raise the next generation of children as cherished and valued above all else!

My pregnancy with DD was a surprise (I'm parenting solo), and OH BOY! Did she change my life! I joke that "I just work here!" but it's true! I see my job as meeting her 16 month old needs to the best of my human abilities. Most of my same-age friends are childless still and I make sure they know that children change everything for the better, and make no illusions of keeping that old lifestyle!

Seanjoshmom, I *dream* of being a SAHM - go for it! Try to make it work! You're such a great mom!

[seanjoshmom]

Wow, Maurica, you must be so strong! I can't imagine parenting alone. Bravo on finding the reserves to meet the challenges you face!

[rainsmom]

What I get from Dr Phil when he talks about not putting the kids first, is that we need to take care of our marriages. SO MANY MOMS make kids their sole focus and forget about working at the marriage, then the kids are out of the house and what do you have? There wont be happy kids without a marriage. Im not saying have the kids on the side. My dd is 17mos and there is no way she would let me put her on the side right now. With nightwaking and me being a zombie right now, I can see where my marriage is taking a backseat. Its strong enough to withstand that for now, but not for ever. Ive raised a child already (ds is 24) and I know the mistakes I made, surviving as a single parent and not enjoying him and motherhood. Thats not the case this time around. There is a fine line between being a parent who is a martyr in their sacrificing, and being a parent who is involved in their childs life and in their development. Im a SAHM doing it the way I wish I couldve done it 24 years ago. But I dont sacrifice MY dreams and desires OR my marriage.

One thing I really notice when Im out in public with my dd is how some people are really put out about us sitting next to them in a restaurant, or walking thru the library, or in a coffee shop. Like they were never kids. They were never kids who were cherished or valued. That is what I feel IMHO is wrong with our society and the way we view children.

I think children DO change the family dynamics. THEY CHANGE OUR LIVES! and I never would have had one if I couldnt raise her consciously, staying at home. But not everyone has this choice. My ds was in daycare most of the time and I was the sole support. some people dont have a choice, some do. Im just saying, lets not forget about loving eachother, our partners, and keeping perspective. I think the best thing I can do for my dd is to let her see me doing that. Keeping perspective, working at my marriage and NOT making her my whole world.

[1jooj]

My dh works an assembly job--when I was "working," I brought home the bigger check. Now, we are doing it--with a mortgage instead of cheap 1BR apt. rent--on just his modest wages. He has picked up odd-job stuff the makes ends meet. Some days are hard--and for me, the guilt is harder than not seeing dh. He leaves the house at 4:30am and comes home at 4 pm, eats some dinner, and heads back out for another 3-4 hours at his other work. I spend a lot of time on my own with ds, since most of my friends have not yet begun their families. We struggle with $$, but we do not have any credit card debt, so we feel pretty good about that. We eat simple foods, all ome cooked. My entertainment is the library (and Mothering). This spring, we started a garden, but it is a cold spring. On weekends, dh usually puts in a few hours, but we try to do something together. We have never taken a vacation. We don't go out to movies, or out to eat. We eat no fats food. We buy second-hand clothes and household things. Ds gets a lot of hand me downs from cousins. No cable. I cut dh's hair, and my mom cuts mine. You name it, we have pretty much cut it out.
Dh really takes pride, though, in the fact that we are putting our family before everything else. After all, family is really the only thing that really, really matters. When you lose everything else, they can console you--when you lose your family, "everything else" you might have certainly will not bring you comfort.
There is a lot of love in our house--kisses in ALL directions!

[Super Pickle]

ummnuh

[kama'aina mama]

I think a lot of people (and particulary Oprah and her syncophants) are very caught up in the self fulfillment cult. It strikes me as the "Me Generation" but with a couple of thin layers of spirituality thrown over to dress it up. The idea of losing control scares them (but not so much they want to stay drug free and aware at their births) so they don't want to give in to the incredible changes that motherhood brings.

I also think there is a fear of real intimacy in our culture. The kind that leads to genuine self sacrafice, rather than just blandly mouthing the phrase 'they are the most important things in the world to me..'. It scares hell out of many people and I wonder if that is part of the reason people are so upset by public nursing. If we must engage in such a frighteningly close relationship with our babies, couldn't we at least have the courtesy to hide it?

[member]

Originally posted by kama'aina mama
I think a lot of people (and particulary Oprah and her syncophants) are very caught up in the self fulfillment cult. It strikes me as the "Me Generation" but with a couple of thin layers of spirituality thrown over to dress it up. The idea of losing control scares them (but not so much they want to stay drug free and aware at their births) so they don't want to give in to the incredible changes that motherhood brings.

I also think there is a fear of real intimacy in our culture. The kind that leads to genuine self sacrafice, rather than just blandly mouthing the phrase 'they are the most important things in the world to me..'. It scares hell out of many people and I wonder if that is part of the reason people are so upset by public nursing. If we must engage in such a frighteningly close relationship with our babies, couldn't we at least have the courtesy to hide it?

kama'aina mama, I find so much truth in this that I had to quote the entire thing. I come from a family and community that always put children first... it takes a whole village y'know. I couldn't image just raising my own children on the side muchless interacting with any child as if s/he was just an accessory. I really dislike Dr. Phil and his "put marriage first" philosophy - put your entire family, community first and you will be more than rewarded.

[CorasMama]

The thing that has always struck me about the Oprah & Dr. Phil cult is this:

Have all these women not noticed that Oprah has no children??? And that she's just about admitted that the reason she has no children is that she can't make room / time / effort for children in her life? Have all these women not noticed that Oprah has responsibly chosen not to include raising children in her all-about-me-and-putting-me-and-Stedman-first lifestyle? And that there is a very good reason for this?

I have no problem with Oprah choosing to live the "self" life, because she has not chosen to have, and isolate, a child. What I have a problem with is all these women who think that the "self-first-and-foremost" lifestyle is appropriate for a parent.

Okay, I will stop now before I really go off. My step-mother is a member of the Oprah cult, and I am witnessing the disastrous results in my young adolescent half-sister. My stepmom even tapes Oprah to watch when she gets home. I recently asked her what she had read lately. She responded with the names of several "self-help" type books (including one Dr. Phil ). I asked her what the last fiction she read was, and she really could not remember. She THINKS it was 3+ years ago, but she says she really only reads self-help/improvement books now. She has several on tape to listen to in her car Gee, she and my dad are divorced, my sister's adolescence is in the toilet, she has no love life (but not for lack of trying), and she drinks every night, usually falling asleep (that's the genteel way of saying she passes out) on the couch. D'ya think all those books and tapes and Oprahs are working??? : Sigh. So much for stopping before I really go off!

Thanks for this thread. I feel validated to know that there are others who think Oprah and Dr. Phil and their ilk are cultish and icky.

[rainsmom]

Its always easier to blame someones addictions on something or someone else. Whether she read ann landers everyday or watched oprah, NOTHING will help this women while she continues to drink till she passes out.

I dont agree with EVERYTHING Oprah and Dr Phil say, but at least Oprah realises she doesnt have the time to be a mother and have a career. I wish alot of other people would realise that!

[ladylee]

Self fulfillment is very important to me. Most of my friends share that feeling, so it's interesting for me to see the opinions expressed here. It's given me something new to think about.

What I've come to realize with myself is that I have more to give as a mother if I'm fulfilled (please don't think I'm using these words in a trite way,) and I make an effort every day to figure out how to do that. It may come from mothering, it may not. But I understand the difference between self fulfillment and self absorption. Self fulfillment enables you to give back. And I also know that selfLESSness usually creates self fulfillment if one can just surrender to it. I'm working on that one. AP has helped me so much in that sense.

Slightly OT, but I've thought of creating a poll here about the degree of maternal instincts people feel & where everyone placed themselves. I guess I wanted to know that there was someone else like me, lol. I absolutely cherish and adore my daughter, I parent her in as nurturing a way as I know how--but I don't necessarily think of myself as an overly maternal woman. And that is A-OK, because clearly I have just the right amount of maternal instincts to be a good mother to her...