My detox issues--help me figure this out please!

[FairyRae]

Hey wise mamas!

So, I feel like I keep having weirder and weirder detox issues. Some background:

I have some sort of sulfation pathway issues, which I'm working on supporting nutritionally and w/ supps (B-complex, mag, zinc, folate, Mo sometimes). My extreme headaches after nettles and my negative reaction to eggs--terrible nausea 20 minutes after eating (which has seemed to have subsided w/ much avoidance--I'm tolerating in small amounts now--and was possibly brought on by me eating WAY too many daily for a while) both lead me to believe I have issues w/ this pathway. This is a pathway ds has issues w/ as well.

Another issue I have had is w/ iodine. I have tried multiple times in the past year to add in either kelp (starting w/ 1 tsp a day--a tested source) or lugol's--1 drop a day, and both gave me monstrous headaches for days which didn't discontinue until I stopped taking it. I use kelp flakes in cooking all the time, like salt and pepper, but seem to have trouble adding it in more often/higher amounts than that. So I'm thinking bromide/bromine is an issue?

I've made coconut water kefir in the past, and even a tbs in a smoothie gives me killer headaches. Plain coconut water, not fermented, does the same thing. I don't think I drank less than 4-8 oz at a time b/4 making the connection then stopped. Is this probably/possibly metals/mercury related?

I also have, in the recent past, gotten AWFUL headaches from eating 1.5 tsp coconut oil. I did it a few times b/4 making the connection. I *can* do coconut milk in moderation. I'm thinking its the antifungal nature of it? Kind of like the iodine--a little is ok, 'too much' is awful. This did not used to be an issue for me a year ago.

Headaches are kind of my 'I'm not ready to go there' point, as I just feel like my detox pathways must be blocked in some major ways which is keeping whatever is being released by eating these various things from actually coming out. I do not have the money atm to spend on testing, and would prefer to try and just figure this out w/ trial and error. I've been focusing on supporting detox pathways through nutrition and supps, in whatever way possible.

Oh, and oatstraw infusion recently made me feel brain foggy and out there (high glutamate from what I read in the glutamate/GABA thread) for a/b 12-15 hours after drinking a lot of it, eating a bunch of almonds (high in GABA) made me feel a lot better quickly (not sure if thats possible, but that's what it felt like) so I may have glutamate/GABA issues. I tried taking GABA but didn't really notice a difference in how I felt--maybe I need to try the more glutamate lowering stuff like GSE, etc.

On top of all of this, I feel amazing, in general, when I'm not actively trying to add in the above foods. So, when I'm not trying to detox/etc. I eat a pretty paleo diet and love how I feel on it, and the major staples for me are meat/poultry/fish, veggies, fats (esp ghee, avocados and coconut milk) and fruit, along w/ some starches like potatoes. I eat fermented veggies and coconut milk yogurt (mostly homemade) daily w/ no problems. Also I avoid gluten, dairy, corn and soy (but the last two I get in trace amounts in supps and some foods.) I also utilize traditional foods like bone broth quite a bit, and have been doing the frozen liver 'pills', all w/ no ill effects/reactions. I take supplemental D3, do magnesium sulfate and chloride transdermally (and really *feel* the mag oil's calming effect), plus supps I mentioned above, along w/ fish oil and bioplasma cell salts.

I'm not sure what my questions are, I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Esp the coconut product headaches, and how all of the headache reactions connect. I also wonder, b/c I feel so good in general, is it *really* necessary/helpful/essential to my health to work on actively detoxing? I never get sick, usually feel full of energy, and don't feel like I have too many underlying issues *except* needing to moderate my intake of certain foods to avoid these headaches (or reactions--like dairy--typically gives me a cold if I eat it), which hasn't been too terrible for me thusfar. I really feel like just focusing on nutrient dense foods, getting adequate nutrition from food and supps at the moment, and focusing on opening detox pathways.

If I just 'leave' whatever is not being adequately detoxed in there, and I'm not feeling the effects of them atm (b/c I'm not actively trying to detox them), will that be detrimental to my health in the future? If the junk is just sitting in there, wherever, is that ok, in your opinions?? I also have 4-5 amalgam fillings, just fyi.

I'm just not sure where to go w/ all this, and would love your input. To actively detox, or to do it more slowly just by focusing on nutrition? Is actively detoxing something I should plan to focus on in the future, or something I should only focus on if I seem to be having more pressing issues?? I'm ok w/ not taking lots of kelp or CO etc if I can avoid the headaches, but is that just me ignoring a larger, more problematic issue? (And I realize that what I *should* do is really up to me--I just want your ideas, your WWYD takes on all this!)

Any and all thoughts/ideas are appreciated.

[FairyRae]

I forgot to add, vitamineral green gives me intense, long lasting (all day) headaches as well if I take it in .5-1 tsp amounts, 1x a day. I don't think it's *just* the nettles and kelp in it, as they must be in small amounts (if I'd be getting all this stuff in a half tsp). But it is known to be 'detoxing' so I'm sure that's part of it.

Also, I *used* to do some nettle tea w/ no problem when ds was a newborn--just another interesting tidbit!!

Vitamineral Green Ingredients:

Land Vegetables: Nettle leaf, horsetail (shavegrass), burdock root, ginger root, beet root juice, alfalfa leaf juice, dandelion leaf juice, broccoli juice, kale juice, spinach juice, parsley juice, yucca juice, nopal cactus

Sea Vegetables: Icelandic kelp, Nova Scotia dulse

Cereal Grasses: Whole leaf barley grass, whole leaf wheat grass, kamut grass juice, barley grass juice, oat grass juice

Fruits: Acerola berry juice, amla berry, carob pod

Algaes: Spirulina, broken cell wall chlorella

Enzymes: Protease, papain, bromelain, amylase, cellulase, lipase, alpha galactosidase

Probiotics & Microflora: Beneficial organisms. Includes exclusive NSO (Natural Soil Organisms) and implantable species. A. agilis, L. acidophilus, R. arrhizus, DDS-1 acidophilus, bifidus, L. bulgaricus, A. brasilienese, B. brenis, P. chrysosporium, A. citreus, L. casei, P. calcis, S. cellulasae, P. denitrificans, S. daecium, S. dradiae, P. dlourescens, A. globiformis, S. griseoflavus, P. gelatic, B. lipolyticum, A. luteus, A. lipoferum, A. lwolfii, B. laterosporous, P. marinoglutinosa, B. macerans, P. nigraclens, P. putida, L. plantarum, B. pumilus, B. polymyxa, B. stationis, L. salivarius, B. subtilus, B. Succinogenes, A. simplex, B. subtilus, S. thermopolis , A. terreus, M. verrucaria, T. viride. K. zopfit.

[dulce_mami]

I don't know what the issues are, but I was wondering how you can do bone broth ok, bc. I thought it was high in glutamates which you suspect may be a culprit...

[FairyRae]

Yeah Maybe it's not the glutamates in oatstraw? I also consumed like 4 cups of oatstraw infusion when this happened, and typically don't do more than a cup of bone broth a couple times a week, so it may be an amount issue. I tend to go overboard on infusions when I make them, which can be linked to all this as well. It seems I have a real issue w/ quantities of various things--like I can handle a little, but not a lot...

I am not as worried about the glutamates thing as it didn't give me a headache, and the GABA rich food (almonds) seemed to help w/ the brain fog, but I do wonder if it's somehow tied into all the rest.

Thanks for mentioning this and trying to help me work all this out!!!

[tanyalynn]

Things like glutamates and amines and sals and such do seem to run along a tolerance scale. I don't know much about glutamates, though, and what makes our tolerance go up and down. Apparently we make more glutamates in warm/hot weather, does that track with any of the reactions?

Ack, meant to quote earlier, let me go back and grab that and then discuss...

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by FairyRae

Another issue I have had is w/ iodine. I have tried multiple times in the past year to add in either kelp (starting w/ 1 tsp a day--a tested source) or lugol's--1 drop a day, and both gave me monstrous headaches for days which didn't discontinue until I stopped taking it. I use kelp flakes in cooking all the time, like salt and pepper, but seem to have trouble adding it in more often/higher amounts than that. So I'm thinking bromide/bromine is an issue?

Have you seen the link to the salt flush to help flush out bromine? It's basically just a fairly high amount of salt in a full glass of water, it should cause a lot more urination and half the NaCl (probably the Na+ ?) grabs some bromine and you pee it out. For those of us who are chronically dehydrates, we don't pee extra though--guess I needed more salt. Just throwing it out in case it's an issue for someone else.

I've made coconut water kefir in the past, and even a tbs in a smoothie gives me killer headaches. Plain coconut water, not fermented, does the same thing. I don't think I drank less than 4-8 oz at a time b/4 making the connection then stopped. Is this probably/possibly metals/mercury related?

It seems more coconut related than probiotic related, you're saying? What has happened, or not, when you've consumed something like kimchi or something containing things you're pretty sure you're not intolerant of. ... Oh, okay, just re-read below, other ferments are fine.

I also have, in the recent past, gotten AWFUL headaches from eating 1.5 tsp coconut oil. I did it a few times b/4 making the connection. I *can* do coconut milk in moderation. I'm thinking its the antifungal nature of it? Kind of like the iodine--a little is ok, 'too much' is awful. This did not used to be an issue for me a year ago.

Headaches are kind of my 'I'm not ready to go there' point, as I just feel like my detox pathways must be blocked in some major ways which is keeping whatever is being released by eating these various things from actually coming out. I do not have the money atm to spend on testing, and would prefer to try and just figure this out w/ trial and error. I've been focusing on supporting detox pathways through nutrition and supps, in whatever way possible.


On top of all of this, I feel amazing, in general, when I'm not actively trying to add in the above foods. So, when I'm not trying to detox/etc. I eat a pretty paleo diet and love how I feel on it, and the major staples for me are meat/poultry/fish, veggies, fats (esp ghee, avocados and coconut milk) and fruit, along w/ some starches like potatoes. I eat fermented veggies and coconut milk yogurt (mostly homemade) daily w/ no problems. Also I avoid gluten, dairy, corn and soy (but the last two I get in trace amounts in supps and some foods.) I also utilize traditional foods like bone broth quite a bit, and have been doing the frozen liver 'pills', all w/ no ill effects/reactions. I take supplemental D3, do magnesium sulfate and chloride transdermally (and really *feel* the mag oil's calming effect), plus supps I mentioned above, along w/ fish oil and bioplasma cell salts.

I'm not sure what my questions are, I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Esp the coconut product headaches, and how all of the headache reactions connect. I also wonder, b/c I feel so good in general, is it *really* necessary/helpful/essential to my health to work on actively detoxing? I never get sick, usually feel full of energy, and don't feel like I have too many underlying issues *except* needing to moderate my intake of certain foods to avoid these headaches (or reactions--like dairy--typically gives me a cold if I eat it), which hasn't been too terrible for me thusfar. I really feel like just focusing on nutrient dense foods, getting adequate nutrition from food and supps at the moment, and focusing on opening detox pathways.

If I just 'leave' whatever is not being adequately detoxed in there, and I'm not feeling the effects of them atm (b/c I'm not actively trying to detox them), will that be detrimental to my health in the future? If the junk is just sitting in there, wherever, is that ok, in your opinions?? I also have 4-5 amalgam fillings, just fyi.

I'm just not sure where to go w/ all this, and would love your input. To actively detox, or to do it more slowly just by focusing on nutrition? Is actively detoxing something I should plan to focus on in the future, or something I should only focus on if I seem to be having more pressing issues?? I'm ok w/ not taking lots of kelp or CO etc if I can avoid the headaches, but is that just me ignoring a larger, more problematic issue? (And I realize that what I *should* do is really up to me--I just want your ideas, your WWYD takes on all this!)

Any and all thoughts/ideas are appreciated.

I'm torn on the whole topic of what to do if we feel fine. I guess, right now, I am approaching a "done-enough" point. When I get enough sleep and ditch the sugary foods that I use as a crutch when I'm tired and/or stressed, I feel pretty good. I can't tell how much weird crap I still have in me--I've clearly made progress in the past 3 years.

Right now, I'm hoping that I've pretty much achieved these goals:
1- improve my nutritional reserves, so I've got enough to properly nourish a potential future baby w/o putting myself at high risk of health issues

2- reduce circulating toxins to reduce risk to potential future kiddo

3- reduce toxic load enough that my body functions fairly well (daytime temps of 97.2 F are not good, so I've been glad to see improvement there, for example)

4- potentially plan to do more once I'm done being pregnant and nursing. I figure I'll keep learning, like everyone I'll have some (hopefully low-level) problem-solving to do in the coming years, but I may put in a reasonable chunk of time/energy in, say, a decade.

I'm not sure I understand how toxins become mobilized. It seems like really focusing on nutrition and making a good effort to avoid new toxins, and continuing the stuff I've already learned, should keep me and the kids (current and potential future ones) in pretty good shape for a while--right?

If you're seeing an increase in reactions, that seems potentially troublesome. When you weren't reacting to nettles or CO, how did you feel then? I think sometimes we don't react because we're incredibly beaten down, and reactions can increase over time. But sometimes it's because we're getting rundown in some specific way--and it sounds like overall you're in pretty good shape, so it seems fairly specific, whatever is going on.

[FairyRae]

I've not done the salt flush, and will try it in the future if I add it in in larger amounts.

And I do think its more coconut than probiotic related--I seem to do fine w/ probiotics.

Originally Posted by tanyalynn

I'm torn on the whole topic of what to do if we feel fine. I guess, right now, I am approaching a "done-enough" point. When I get enough sleep and ditch the sugary foods that I use as a crutch when I'm tired and/or stressed, I feel pretty good. I can't tell how much weird crap I still have in me--I've clearly made progress in the past 3 years.

Right now, I'm hoping that I've pretty much achieved these goals:
1- improve my nutritional reserves, so I've got enough to properly nourish a potential future baby w/o putting myself at high risk of health issues

2- reduce circulating toxins to reduce risk to potential future kiddo

3- reduce toxic load enough that my body functions fairly well (daytime temps of 97.2 F are not good, so I've been glad to see improvement there, for example)

4- potentially plan to do more once I'm done being pregnant and nursing. I figure I'll keep learning, like everyone I'll have some (hopefully low-level) problem-solving to do in the coming years, but I may put in a reasonable chunk of time/energy in, say, a decade.

Your POV is very helpful and grounding for me. Thank you for sharing this, it seems very in line w/ where I am now.

I'm not sure I understand how toxins become mobilized. It seems like really focusing on nutrition and making a good effort to avoid new toxins, and continuing the stuff I've already learned, should keep me and the kids (current and potential future ones) in pretty good shape for a while--right?

If you're seeing an increase in reactions, that seems potentially troublesome. When you weren't reacting to nettles or CO, how did you feel then? I think sometimes we don't react because we're incredibly beaten down, and reactions can increase over time. But sometimes it's because we're getting rundown in some specific way--and it sounds like overall you're in pretty good shape, so it seems fairly specific, whatever is going on.

I think I am in better shape healthwise *now*. At the same time, maybe I've been doing more/adding foods that mobilize stuff?

Thanks for thinking through this w/ me!

I posted this on the unschooling nutrition yahoo group and WuWei shared some info that connects a lot of this stuff to mercury toxicity. My sulfation issues could/are totally be linked to mercury from what I read as well.

Its giving me LOTS to look into/think a/b...

[mamafish9]

I'd try to save for a hair test - with a discount code, they're $75, and that would give you a decent read on whether you may have an underlying mercury toxicity issue. The spirulina & chlorella in the vitaminerals can both mobilize mercury. Googling quickly, it sounds possible that oatstraw could as well. Coconut may be killing off yeast, again mobilizing mercury (which is often sequestered in gut yeast). Probiotics and ferments may not be impacting the particular gut bugs that the coconut does.

Not saying you do have mercury toxicity, just saying it's possible, given what you're reporting. Are you nursing?

If it were me, this is one case where I'd want to test first, because mercury isn't something to detox casually. With most issues, I'm a fan of experimenting, but mercury's a different kettle of fish.

[FairyRae]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

I'd try to save for a hair test - with a discount code, they're $75, and that would give you a decent read on whether you may have an underlying mercury toxicity issue. The spirulina & chlorella in the vitaminerals can both mobilize mercury. Googling quickly, it sounds possible that oatstraw could as well. Coconut may be killing off yeast, again mobilizing mercury (which is often sequestered in gut yeast). Probiotics and ferments may not be impacting the particular gut bugs that the coconut does.

Not saying you do have mercury toxicity, just saying it's possible, given what you're reporting. Are you nursing?

If it were me, this is one case where I'd want to test first, because mercury isn't something to detox casually. With most issues, I'm a fan of experimenting, but mercury's a different kettle of fish.

I didn't realize a/b the oatstraw! Thanks for looking into it!

Thanks mamafish. I'm nursing and def stopping all experimentation for now, esp w/ headache causing stuff.

Any more recs on what to avoid or add if I'm dealing w/ mercury and NOT looking to chelate?

I'm planning to keep my focus on opening detox pathways through food & supps, avoiding mobilizing mercury however possible. (Any ideas on how to avoid mobilization welcome!!)

I'll save for a hair test. For now I'm acting as if there is a mercury issue, as it really seems to fit/make sense that this would be an issue for me.

[mamafish9]

If you suspect possible mercury toxicity, many things recommended to open detox pathways or clean up your gut could mobilize the mercury. And I think you're absolutely right to want to avoid doing that with a nursling. I'd add basic supporting nutrients (minerals, D, etc) but sounds like you already have all that covered. Stay in that "feeling great" place, do a hair test when you can, and don't worry too much about detox and opening stuff up right now .

[FairyRae]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

If you suspect possible mercury toxicity, many things recommended to open detox pathways or clean up your gut could mobilize the mercury. And I think you're absolutely right to want to avoid doing that with a nursling. I'd add basic supporting nutrients (minerals, D, etc) but sounds like you already have all that covered. Stay in that "feeling great" place, do a hair test when you can, and don't worry too much about detox and opening stuff up right now .

Ok--great. Thank you mamafish!!!