Question about oils and fats for different cooking methods

[daisymommy]

My mind is getting all swirly on the subject

I was just reading that unrefined coconut oil should not be used above 280*

I have been using it for scrambling eggs. But I'm sure the heat gets higher than that than 280*. When I use butter, it smokes.

Sauteing vegetables in a skillet: I've read in most places to use olive oil, but now see that olive oil shouldn't be heated above 325* or it becomes like a trans-fat. Wouldn't sauteing get above 325* ?

More scenarios, what about:

Baking something like brownies or cookies at 350* (this is medium heat right?) What is best for something that will work right in the recipe, and impart the best flavor? Butter? Because I personally don't like coconut brownies, and again, the heat is supposedly too high.

Baking muffins at 400* (considered med-high heat) again, not a fan of a coconut blueberry muffin--and heat is too high (although that is what I see mentioned in most TF soaked muffin/baked goods recipes). Does butter work well for texture?

Cake? (baking baby's 1st birthday cake today!)--I normally would be using Canola oil.

Lightly pan frying something like a breaded pork chop--not sure what to use here--that I normally finish baking in the oven.

Any other oil uses I'm forgetting to ask about?
(I never really fry anything, like French fries, or chicken).

[Magelet]

I use whatever up to the smoke point (if it's smoking, I won't use it. except coconut oil, because it smokes a little without burning).

I know it's not "ideal" but I also figure that people have been using all of these oils at all sorts of heat (even olive oil and coconut oil to fry stuff) for a huge amount of time, without clearly harmful effects.

[Arduinna]

Just because you are setting the oven at 400 or whatever does not mean the food reaches 400 degrees, unless you overcook it. For example when you roast meat, even well done the meat is nowhere near 400 degrees when fully cooked, same with any baked good. I use coconut oil for baking, but I also use butter. About the scrambled eggs, I generally use butter but you can use lard also which has a higher smke point. But due to the proteins in eggs it's best to not cook them at high heat anyway as it ruins the texture. If it's smoking it's too hot for cooking eggs.

Frying, lard for sure. I rarely deep fry though.

[cristeen]

Fat solo will reach temps in excess of 400f if allowed. But mixed into something like cake batter and baked, it will not exceed the boiling point of water (212f), because the rest of the ingredients cannot exceed that temp.

[JamieCatheryn]

I butter in the scrambled eggs pan doesn't smoke. I guess the ideal fat for frying would be lard. I use coconut oil now and then for baking or popcorn, usually just put it in soap though. I usually bake with butter. Peanut oil works well for many things too, some baking, some stir fry. Olive oil I try to reserve for adding after cooking, except in my pizza crust because it's delicious in that.

[daisymommy]

Originally Posted by cristeen

But mixed into something like cake batter and baked, it will not exceed the boiling point of water (212f), because the rest of the ingredients cannot exceed that temp.

Really!?! By golly you're smart! I never knew that! (and I am not saying that sarcastically, I promise...I really thought if the oven was at 400* then the food was too, such as a roast I am cooking...I never use a meat thermometer, so I had no idea). Huh.

So, for baked goods then, do I use butter if I don't want it to taste like coconut oil?

And I really have no idea how people how been cooking eggs for the last 200 years so I have no frame of reference I just know there's a risk of cancer causing compounds when fat is allowed to smoke...right?

[CherryBomb]

I usually use butter for baked good (and eggs!)

If your pan is smoking when you use butter, it's way too high heat. It doesn't need to be more than medium to cook eggs.

[Sayward]

Originally Posted by cristeen

Fat solo will reach temps in excess of 400f if allowed. But mixed into something like cake batter and baked, it will not exceed the boiling point of water (212f), because the rest of the ingredients cannot exceed that temp.

Could you explain this? I'm not understanding. Are you saying that nothing in the oven ever gets hotter than the boiling point of water? That doesn't make sense to me because the reason a wet batter turns into a dry cake is because the liquid gets hot enough to change phase and escape as a gas.

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by Sayward

Could you explain this? I'm not understanding. Are you saying that nothing in the oven ever gets hotter than the boiling point of water? That doesn't make sense to me because the reason a wet batter turns into a dry cake is because the liquid gets hot enough to change phase and escape as a gas.

It could get hotter, but that would be over cooking. Cake is usually done when its internal temp is between 200 and 212 degrees. At least that's what Alton Brown says.

[jcr92901]

What about using ghee(clarified butter) for eggs, veggies, and frying stuff. I think the smoke point is near 480 or so and it's yummy! I started using it a few months ago and love it.

[cristeen]

If you realize that all non-oil foods are mostly water, it makes more sense. Once you remove all the water from a food, i suppose it could exceed 212, but it wouldn't be anything you would want to eat at that point. If you ever stick a thermometer in a roast thats been in the oven for hours, the oven may be set at 325 or 350, but the roast is only 160 or 180.

This is the purpose of pressure canning, and why even baked honey isn't "safe" for babies. The food does not exceed 212 under normal circumstances, and botulism dies somewhere around 260 IIRC.

And batter doesnt turn into cake because youve boiled off the liquid. It turns into cake when the heat activates the protein molecules to solidify. If you were boiling off all the liquid, that would be one heck of a dry cake.

[PeggyinNC]

Sayward... you said "the liquid gets hot enough to change phase and escape as a gas. "
That happens, the liquid (water) gets hot enough to change to a gas (steam) at 212 degrees F.

Cristeen, I was also not aware of all the lovely info you've given here; thanks so much, I always learn something from you~

Daisymommy, I use lots of butter, also coconut oil unrefined, as well as tropical traditions refined to use at high temps from time to time, because it doesn't taste like coconut oil, because my dh hates the taste of coconut oil except in coconut fudge.
I also use Rapunzel sunflower oil sometimes, like for mayo, and Spectrum palm shortening, Wilderness Family Naturals red palm oil, and good old lard from our farmer's market. I just use whichever seems to be the best in terms of temp and taste. I love butter the best~

[daisymommy]

Thanks Peggy I think I may try some of the refined coconut oil, as well as some of the other oils you mentioned...and buy some more butter I think I probably have been heating my pan too high for my eggs.

[serenbat]

I do eggs in chicken fat or bacon drippings.

I don't worry about using oil (mainly olive) in baking, I don't make things that take that much oil.

Lard for frying.

butter on veggies, not using for frying

[Laniemama]

I use lard or bacon drippings (from pastured pigs) for my eggs, SO good! I also use butter or coconut oil in my baked goods and lard or bacon drippings for frying. I love making chips in lard, yum! I use light olive oil and coconut oil for making mayo, but I've heard that bacon grease mayo is really good too.

[Smokering]

I was going to suggest ghee, but yeah - eggs are better cooked slowly, unless you like runny whites or brown crispy plasticky bottoms. Butter should be fine.

I use butter for most things. I don't like the taste or texture of coconut oil at *all* - it seems to coat everything with a thick, viscous, rancid-tasting layer. DH can't stand it either. I'm also not crazy about dripping - I use it in small quantities when I'm frying something beefy, but otherwise I can taste it and it has the same greasy mouth feel. Bleugh. Not keen on the smell for either fat, also. (I do have one recipe for gingerbread cookies that uses coconut oil, and even there I can sometimes taste that funny smell after they're baked...)

Duck fat is THE BEST THING EVER, but I've only had it once, after roasting a duck. It was hellishly expensive and I didn't really like the meat itself, but good golly, the gravy was AWESOME and the leftover fat, used to roast potatoes - YUM! Chicken fat's not bad either, but... yeah... I don't usually end up with enough to use it on a regular basis.

I use olive oil in hummus and for dipping bread; also in my sourdough bread, if it's a savoury version. I don't know if that's good or not, it's just convenient...

[CherryBomb]

Yeah, my chicken fat is usually turned into chicken gravy, so I never get a supply built up I use evoo in hummus and sourdough