signing non-vax forms....

[allmine]

ok,
my pedi is friendly with non vaxers, but she wants us to sign forms. I have never even thought about refusing....so I haven't asked.

are the forms a problem?

what forms specifically are a problem?

can someone enlighten me???

[Arduinna]

I'm not signing the bad parent form, period.

[mgg]

The purpose of the form is to document that immunizations were offered. Pediatricians do this for two reasons:

1. To demonstrate to those who audit the charts (insurance companies and other health agancies) that equal care is being offered to all patients.

2. To prevent being held liable if a patient gets a immunization preventable disease.

The language on the AAP form is unnecessarily inflammatory and accusatory. It is done because those who made it believe this helps stress to parents that immunizations are important. I think it only serves to make parents feel bad and become defensive. I think it further serves to build a barrier between the pediatrician and the parent. It's silly to think you and I, as pediatrician and parent should or would agree on everything. But there is no reason to hammer home a point of disagreement.

There is no precedent for the form to be used against a parent. And while that is what a lot of people worry about, I cannot possibly imagine that scenario every happening.

HOWEVER.... If you are still concerned or uncomfortable, either cross out the parts with which you disagree, or ask the pediatrician if there is some alternative.

As far as I'm concerned, I only need a few things on there:

-I need you to acknowledge that I offered them (I don't want someone coming back later saying "he never offered them").

-I need you to acknowledge that I told you why I thought your child should receive them (again, I don't want someone coming back saying "I didn't know THAT could happen").

-I need you to acknowledge that you can bring your child back to receive them if you so choose to (I don't want someone saying "I changed my mind, but since I signed the form, it was too late).

Beyond that, it's not worth worrying about.

Unfortunately, most pediatricians, while they may know medicine, stink at business and legalities. And therefore they often times become unnecessarily defensive and hardline.

[nia82]

I wouldn't sign it - you sign that you are admitting to be a negligent parent who puts her own children and others at risk. If the practice wants their behinds covered for legal purposes, a single paper stating Dr. Blabla recommended these vaccinations and we respectfully decline will suffice. No need for bad parent lingo.

Yesterday I had my DS's 2 year check up with a family practitioner. This was my first positive experience with a doctor in the USA! He saw we don't vaccinate for now as we told the nurse and he said I see you made your decision so we won't talk about that. Let's move on to see how your little one is growing! He also didn't even try to touch my DS's intact penis, so no need for the intact speech either. He focused on my questions and concerns (just DS's speech, but being bilingual it was no biggie) instead of fear-mongering and dwelling on the issue. Nobody asked me to sign anything! I will never go back to a ped with our son nor other baby to come unless I need to see a pediatric specialist of some kind. FPs rock and totally focus on your child instead of being rude! I will never look back. If your ped doesn't accept a form as I stated above, run fast towards a FP!

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by nia82

If the practice wants their behinds covered for legal purposes, a single paper stating Dr. Blabla recommended these vaccinations and we respectfully decline will suffice. !

exactly

[Arduinna]

forgot to post this earlier, I love the excuse about how these forms are to protect Drs when I've never been asked to sign a form when I've refused vax for myself, nor have I heard of any Drs other than Peds ask for such a form to be signed for vax refusal.

[es1967]

The form I signed basically stated that they were offered and that I refused them. I was happy to find a Dr that did not pressure me in any way. He has never brought up the subject again. Now, the first Dr's office would not leave it alone and treated us like criminals. They would not allow us to continue with them. They were horrible and I am so thankful to have found a wonderful DR. It was a huge group and you felt just like a number. Every office is different.

[Fraurloth]

There was a question similar to this in the "I'm Not Vaccinating" forum. I will say the same thing I said before. Never sign a document you don't comprehend. If there is language in a CONTRACT that compromises your rights as a parent or could mean that you incriminate yourself. Do not sign.

As far as I'm concerned, no one should sign anything, because these are documents that can and very well could be used against you in court. Hypothetically speaking, your child contracts a VAD and heaven forbid, your child dies. They will use those CONTRACTS in court and claim that you denied your child "proper medical care."

One of the biggest misconceptions many people have, is the belief that the courts, the judges and the attorneys are honorable. Unfortunately, this is just not so and any GOOD attorney will admit this to you. The courts are not based on truth, integrity, or even honesty. It's based on EVIDENCE.

[Turquesa]

There are alternatives to the AAP's Bad Mommy Form. They accomplish the general purpose of covering the doc's posterior but frame the issue in a more level-headed and thought-provoking (and less guilt/fear-mongering!) manner. Check out Post #12 in this thread.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by Fraurloth

There was a question similar to this in the "I'm Not Vaccinating" forum. I will say the same thing I said before. Never sign a document you don't comprehend. If there is language in a CONTRACT that compromises your rights as a parent or could mean that you incriminate yourself. Do not sign.

While I certainly agree that one should never sign anything they don't understand, the AAP form is not a contract.

[mgg]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

I love the excuse about how these forms are to protect Drs.

I understand you see this as a pressure tactic, and in some ways it is. Which is why I for one, do not like and do not use the AAP form. But are saying that you don't think doctors use this to protect their liability at all?

That seems kind of odd. Everyone is worried that this form could somehow place liability on the parents. But it doesn't seem possible that it could also relieve the physician of the libility. I don't really understand. can you clarify that?

[Turquesa]

MGG, I'm just curious--Has there ever been a case of a parent suing a doctor because his/her child ended up with a vaccine-avoidable disease?

[mgg]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

MGG, I'm just curious--Has there ever been a case of a parent suing a doctor because his/her child ended up with a vaccine-avoidable disease?

That is a very good question. I honestly do not know if anyone has ever gotten it that far. But even the in between can be incredibly problematic.

In order for a malpractice suit ta actually go to trial, it needs to first be deemed to have merit (forgive me, but this isn't my area of expertise, so I do not know the legal specifics). And even the nonsense cases, that never make it past this stage, can cost a lot of time, money and aggravation.

I have had numerous bogus claims filed against me for "damages" that have all been dismissed (silly stuff, like a $1500.00 lawsuit because a 17 year old got diarrhea from an antibiotic). So I can't even imagine the potential claims that would come up amongst my parents whose children have ended up hospitalized with rotavirus in the past two years. If I didn't have that signed waiver, whose to say what?

[crunchy_mommy]

The only form we ever signed was something to the effect of "We are declining vaccinations at this time" -- that was it. I wouldn't sign anything that said much more than that. Our current doc doesn't make us sign anything.

[cyberfish]

I truly understand doctors wanting to cover themselves legally so I can totally see that point of view.

But why is there only such a form for parents refusing vaccines? For example, if a child has an ear infection and is offered an antibiotic but the parent declines, why is there not a form for the parent to sign then, stating antibiotics were offered and declined and the doctor is hereby absolved of any complications that might arise from said ear infection?
I guess I'm wondering why vaccines are singled out in such a way. Or please correct me if I am mistaken.

[mommajomma]

no vaxing

my ped. told me he would no longer see my dd after his 2 mo appt, he is now almost 4 mo and i'd like to take him to a dr to be checked out, but need to find a no vax friendly dr in the overland park, ks area. any suggestions?

[crunchy_mommy]

Check in Finding Your Tribe, hopefully someone will have some rec's for you!! Here's the KS forum: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=89

[Emmeline II]

My ped uses the AAP form. I just crossed out the offensive bits and initial the form at each visit.

[blessedwithboys]

Originally Posted by mgg

I understand you see this as a pressure tactic, and in some ways it is. Which is why I for one, do not like and do not use the AAP form. But are saying that you don't think doctors use this to protect their liability at all?

That seems kind of odd. Everyone is worried that this form could somehow place liability on the parents. But it doesn't seem possible that it could also relieve the physician of the libility. I don't really understand. can you clarify that?

You are taking a fragment of the complete sentence out of context.