2 yo screams and 5 yo lies

[milkmamamerina]

I have been reading other threads on kids who lie and I still feel a bit stuck.

My son (almost 5) has begun lying when asked why his sister is screaming. (When it is clear he was involved in some way) She screams at anything. So sometimes he might come up to her and give her a sweet kiss and she will scream and other times he might come up and pinch her which of course makes her scream.

So the scenario goes something like this

DD screams. DS runs away or looks up suddenly from near her.
Me: What just happened?
DS: nothing.
Me: Really, then why is she screaming?
DS: I kissed her.
Me: Then why did you say nothing? You have two different stories, go to your room until you can tell me what really happened.
--several minutes later--
DS: I'm sorry. I pinched her.
Me: Next time I need you to tell me the truth. Lying is much worse than anything else you could do.

This happens 2-3 times a day recently. So I don't think it's the best way to handle it, but I'm not sure what else to do. I'm not pretending not to know what he did to get him to fess up. I don't know for certain what he did, just that he is near her and that she is unhappy. Sometimes it could just be that she is crabby and he really has done nothing, others he's impulsive and highly physical and may have done anything. Sometimes it's a lashing out because of his frustration and sometimes he might just be getting overexcited and impulsive in his play. (Obviously I do see what happens many times, but not everytime)

I would have him help soothe her, but any further involvement by him usually only makes DD even more angry.
How do I deal with DS hurting DD and then lying about it?

[princesstutu]

Does your 2yo coomunicate with words? If so, I would ask her what's going on when she's screaming, not the 5yo. Possible scenario:

2yo screaming, 5yo near, running away, whatever
Me: (to 2yo) What happened, sweetie?
more screaming
Me: I can't understand you when you're screaming. Can you tell me what happened? Are you hurt?
carry on helping 2yo calm down and not dealing with 5yo until I know what's going on

If 2yo indicates 5yo as reason for screaming, I would give 5yo the opportunity to make amends. I would not ask the 5yo too many questions. Questions just give opportunities to lie. After making amends, we'd move on.

It's age appropriate for 5yos to lie, so I would say handle that the way you see fit, given your morality. For me, I would keep reminding the child that he needs to tell me the truth and that I don't like it when he doesn't tell me the truth. I might make him stay with me all day since I can't trust him to not hurt his sister and I'd explain to him that's why he has to be beside me at all times.

I believe that when kids are constantly doing things I don't like, spending more time with them is usually a good first step. That includes standing next to me while I wash the greens for dinner. Even if your 2yo doesn't communicate with words, yet, keeping the 5yo with you might solve most of this problem.

Good luck!

[mom2grrls]

He probably just feels afraid of getting in trouble no matter what he says KWIM? As soon as you hear screaming you ask him what happened which he may see as blame regardless of your intention. Perhaps if you don't see what happened just describe the situation when you come in-I see 2 y/o screaming and 5 y/o (insert whatever he is doing) and just kind of leave it at that. See what they say(if 2 y/o is verbal) and then deal however you see fit but I would not punish for the lying.

[One_Girl]

He may see what he does as nothing so that isn't two different stories. Telling you he pinched the 2 y/o may also be a lie because he knows it will get him out of his room. If he says he kissed her then that really would be classified as nothing and sending him to his room for nothing happening doesn't make sense. I can see why he would want to pinch her on the sly if he is always getting sent to his room 2-3 times a day for doing nothing to her so maybe he is also pinching her, but I have seen my dd make up details that I know didn't happen because she thinks that will end my anger at what did happen and I think it is possible that other children do this to.

[milkmamamerina]

Thanks for the input.

My 2 yo does use words, but her perceptions are not reliable. She has claimed I have pushed her when I may have brushed her clothing as I walked past. I have seen her make similar exaggerations against her brother. She is touchy that way, so I don't think I can really rely on her to get to the truth.

I would like to think keeping my 5 yo right next to me would be a good option, but I really don't see it as viable. I can't even get him to stay close to me in the grocery store as I shop without forgetting most of what I came for and struggling fiercely with my own temper. He is hyperactive and highly impulsive. It is literally dizzying for me to have him buzzing around me making constant sudden moves and loud nonsense noises. I really struggle with my own sense of overwhelm when he gets overactive. We have put him on the Feingold diet and it has helped, but he still goes wild when he is bored, tired, hungry, getting sick, etc. etc. His preschool teacher also had trouble working with him effectively, so I know it is not *only* me.

@mom2grrls, I do try to not set him up for a lie. So, if I come in and describe what has happened and leave it at that when I am reasonably certain DS has hurt DD in some way, what comes next? Also, how do I discourage the lying if I don't give some sort of consequences when he does it?

Gentle discipline is my goal, but I feel like things have gone a bit off track lately and there has been too much raising of voices. I need to reset my thinking, so I really appreciate all of your input, even if it may not work for the situation.

[lookatreestar]

i was reading a parenting book that had some good ideas in it... i will post if i can find it. no help here because mine are the same way, only 3 and 1. right now my dd does tell me "oh i hit him" or i see her just kissing him and he starts screaming. he screams at everything. she will be sitting on the couch reading a book and he will stand there and scream at her

[mom2grrls]

@mom2grrls, I do try to not set him up for a lie. So, if I come in and describe what has happened and leave it at that when I am reasonably certain DS has hurt DD in some way, what comes next? Also, how do I discourage the lying if I don't give some sort of consequences when he does it?>>>>>

Once you've established(after some time of course) that he is not being accused every time she cries and he isn't getting in trouble you'd be surprised how kids are more willing to open up. If the 2 of them are involved just see how they can both help solve the problem you've described when you walk in. The lying will be discouraged b/c he won't have reason to lie from being afraid to get a consequence. He may still lie here and there(as it's pretty common behavior) but I bet you'll see less of an occurence.