How much do you make after expenses? - Page 2

[poppan]

How much do you make after expenses?
Currently, about $5-6k/month. When the new baby comes, increased nanny expenses and simultaneous reduced working hours will cut pay in half. I don't count preschool tuition as a working expense, because to me it's something that I will have to pay for regardless of whether I'm working. I think it's important for my kids to go to preschool 3 mornings a week.

How much do you earn?
About $12k/month before taxes. But I am a freelancer and paid hourly with no benefits (no holidays, no sick leave, no retirement, no healthcare, etc) and the higher hourly rate is meant to make up for that and for the lack of job security.

Are you full time or part time?
Part-time. I average 30 hours per week.

Who cares for your children?
I have a nanny.

How much is child care per child?
I pay nanny $18/hr for two children, so that's $9/hr per child.

What are your other expenses?
Besides childcare: gas, lunch money, some clothing budget, cell phone

What type of benefits / retirement?
None

How much education did you need to get your job? How many years have you worked?
I do have a BA but I'm not sure how relevant it is to my job. They hired me for my experience, which is 12 years in advertising/marketing. Many of my coworkers have MBAs. I think my real education was the 50 dog years I spent in advertising. I don't recommend it to anyone who has a family or even just a spouse. My current job is in marketing in a regular company that has an actual product, and it's much more conducive to family life. But I'm not sure you can get here from scratch without working your way up the ladder and gaining that experience.

[poppan]

Originally Posted by EFmom

However, I think there is much more to it than take home pay. You have to factor in what happens to your retirement fund and your employment ability and skills if you stop working. It was extremely worth it for me to be taking home little for a couple of years while the kids were in daycare, because I had a tenure track position, and those are very scarce where I live. I got tenure during that time.

I totally agree with this and also want to add: Many professional working moms I know had only the goal of breaking even when their children were young. That is, it was still worth it to work even if they handed over their entire paycheck to childcare. They worked to keep their skills relevant to the marketplace, to keep themselves employable, and for some sanity and have an identity outside of motherhood.

When I first went back to work (after staying home for 15 months) I obsessed over how much I was really taking home on a per hour basis and whether it was worth it to be away from my kids. As time has moved on I discovered that there are new things that I have to pay for regardless of whether I'm working (preschool tuition being a good example for me). And if I had continued staying home, I actually don't know how we would have come up with the money to pay for stuff like that. When they get older I assume there will be new expenses--sports, camp, etc.--that we'll need the second income to pay for. So I've actually started to look at childcare as just a temporary anomaly and the childcare dollars eventually move into categories of expenses I will have regardless of whether I'm working or staying home.

[That Is Nice]

Who posted here about the book, "Getting to 50-50"?

I know several people have recommended this book on MDC. I am now through all but the last chapter and have lots of thoughts about it.

Has anyone else read it?

Would anyone like to discuss that book? We could start a different thread either in the forum or the media/book club forum.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by poppan

So I've actually started to look at childcare as just a temporary anomaly and the childcare dollars eventually move into categories of expenses I will have regardless of whether I'm working or staying home.

I think the temporary anomoly part is right.

Even now, with childcare expenses, I still come out ahead on the numbers. I get retirement, health insurance, all the benefits.

My resume doesn't have gaps.

I have always taken a long term lense on this...but it's still hard with a child under 5, travel for work, meetings, and not much (bordering on no) help.

Yeah, I'll suck it up and keep going, most likely. I mean, that's what I've always done and have done the last couple of years. That doesn't mean I can't debate the merits and analyze the way to a better existence.

Talking about the balance and how to improve doesn't make one a quitter. It means you're in this for real and feeling the back and forth of the work-family see-saw.

Acknowleging the issues facing mothers who have careers - or even just one mother (yourself) - as they/you juggle a career (and not all of ours have the same demands and schedules) and family (not all the same size, set up, or expectations) does not make one a quitter, irresponsible, or (my personal favorite) useless at more successfully demanding/directing ones' partner/spouse to "just" do more. (I got that comment in another thread and it just makes me shake my head in wonder).

What it does make you, IMO, is in the thick of things for real. Real life in a real career with a real kid(s) under 5. Intensive career-family balancing act...

[JoyFilled]

I have a 4 year degree in math and computers. I work for the government in Canada in IT. I take home $2000 every 2 weeks and and pay $500 every 2 weeks for child care for my 16 month old. Leaving $1500 every two weeks as the net.

As a government employee I have a good pension and benefits. Leaving my job or not returning to it after my mat leave would not be good in the long run. I also got a year off with 9 months topped up to 93% of my salary.

My DH works the same type of job as me and makes slightly more.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by JoyFilled

I also got a year off with 9 months topped up to 93% of my salary.

I don't think we can underestimate the impact of a decent maternity leave compared with the limited FMLA available to most United States mothers.

Here's what I mean.

It's a totally different thing to put a 6 week old infant in full time daycare than it is to put a 9 month old or older child in daycare.

It's just not the same.

I personally took two years away from work in the United States following the birth of my child. It was 100% unpaid with no benefits and not job-protected. I could not go back to my previous position because it was filled by someone else. I got a new job elsewhere, luckily in the same system, however, so my seniority and retirement carried. I am lucky for that. I always say I was a SAHM in those two years. But really, in a way, it was a maternity leave. If I lived in most European countries, I could have had parental leave for most of those two years with job protection and some level of benefits.

In the United States, my two years "off" following the birth of my child is a glaring gap on my resume, a time I was considered to be out of the workforce, not on "maternity leave."

The culture of parental leave and work is f'ed up in the U.S. In my opinion, a two year old is a small child. My kid was barely walking at that point, and was definitely not talking nor potty trained, and not even done breastfeeding.

Parental leave policies need to be improved. Period.

[bluebunny]

I've thought about this a lot. I agree with others that the return on my working now might not be much but it will be a lot in the long run (no work gaps, a continued professional identity, continued and relevant skills, etc).

I work two days per week as an independent contractor. I have no benefits, vacation, retirement, etc. Fortunately, we get insurance coverage thru my DH's job. I would pay for preschool, regardless of working or not so I don't really factor that in to the equation. I do have to pay for after-school hours that I would not pay for if I stayed at home full-time. School tuition for the two of them this year will be a third of my salary.

[poppan]

I wanted to go back to what I think is the genesis of your question. The decision to stay with the current company, or go into a different company or even career.

It sounds like you are good at what you do and have good benefits. But you are also a bit burned out from all the presentations and travel, and maybe as it turns out you don't feel like this is the job you want?

I think if it were me--if I were unhappy with certain aspects of my job, but liked the other parts and was good at it--I would just start looking around for a lateral move, a related field or position where you can leverage and add value with the skills you have, but stop doing the things that aren't working for you (like the travel). And I'd probably look around at the eventual higher up positions and decide which one I would like to have one day (if any) and start plotting in my head the path that might get me there.

I wouldn't rule out another company. Switching jobs/companies is always scary for me but they have also given me the greatest career and salary growth. My biggest salary increases have been when I changed companies. Even if I ended up staying at the same company, the fact that a competitor offered me a higher salary often meant my current company would counter offer and match the outside salary. It's one way of making sure you are being paid "market" rate.

I would not switch to a completely unrelated career. I think when you have invested this much into the current one, you lose too much when you start over again. It's OK to start over when you are single and childless, or when the kids have moved out, or generally when you aren't counting on that paycheck so much. But when you *are* counting on that check... it's probably just not very feasible. A smaller change makes more career and financial sense.

The other thing I think I am hearing from you is that it's not necessarily the travel itself that you object to, but the lack of a network that makes it possible for you to travel. That is to say, if you had someone to take care of DS when you have to travel, the travel wouldn't be so bad. If that were the case, I think personally I would look into two things simultaneously:
1) higher pay (to me this would mean interviewing/looking for another job)
2) more flexible (and paid) childcare

Many of the home daycares in my area will do overnights or extended hours. Or it might be a matter of hiring a mother's helper (college student) to help cover the hours until DH gets home when you need to go on a business trip. Or you might cultivate a relationship with a SAHM who is looking for some extra income. Someone who has the flexibility to take on odd and occasional hours.

One thing I have found is that only other working moms appreciate how hard good childcare is to find, and how big of a worry that becomes when you don't have it. Hugs to you mama and I hope you find something that works for you.

[Pippi L.]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

I don't think we can underestimate the impact of a decent maternity leave compared with the limited FMLA available to most United States mothers.

Here's what I mean.

It's a totally different thing to put a 6 week old infant in full time daycare than it is to put a 9 month old or older child in daycare.

It's just not the same.

I personally took two years away from work in the United States following the birth of my child. It was 100% unpaid with no benefits and not job-protected. I could not go back to my previous position because it was filled by someone else. I got a new job elsewhere, luckily in the same system, however, so my seniority and retirement carried. I am lucky for that. I always say I was a SAHM in those two years. But really, in a way, it was a maternity leave. If I lived in most European countries, I could have had parental leave for most of those two years with job protection and some level of benefits.

In the United States, my two years "off" following the birth of my child is a glaring gap on my resume, a time I was considered to be out of the workforce, not on "maternity leave."

The culture of parental leave and work is f'ed up in the U.S. In my opinion, a two year old is a small child. My kid was barely walking at that point, and was definitely not talking nor potty trained, and not even done breastfeeding.

Parental leave policies need to be improved. Period.

Absolutely agree! I grew up in the States but have lived in Canada my whole adult life. I watch childhood friends struggle with work/life balance with small children and it makes me so angry. I get a year off with my salary paid. My employer cannot legally deny me that. And in addition they give me 2 more years off if I choose to take them. I might not get my exact position back, but I will get an equivalent one.

The US maternity leave policy is inhumane, in my opinion. I probably would have left the workforce for several years (if at all possible) until my kids were older if I still lived there. Instead I have the ability to spend time with my babies and stay employed.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by Pippi L.

Absolutely agree! I grew up in the States but have lived in Canada my whole adult life. I watch childhood friends struggle with work/life balance with small children and it makes me so angry. I get a year off with my salary paid. My employer cannot legally deny me that. And in addition they give me 2 more years off if I choose to take them. I might not get my exact position back, but I will get an equivalent one.

The US maternity leave policy is inhumane, in my opinion. I probably would have left the workforce for several years (if at all possible) until my kids were older if I still lived there. Instead I have the ability to spend time with my babies and stay employed.

And I totally agree with you. I think in the US, some women stay home because they want to stay home. Some women work because they have to work.

But some women with careers who want to work are caught in the middle of the bad / inadequate family leave policies, and put their careers on hold because they can't balance until the children are older. Or they trudge throug for 5 or so years, and it is very hard.

There might be some out there who have very good support systems and partners who look at the two careers equally, or partners who stay home to care for the children, and in those cases a mother might be able to balance career and family better and earlier.

For those of us with partners who won't/don't stay home, who aren't looking at the two careers equally, and who don't have a support system, better family leave laws could be our saving grace.

I'm one who put my career on hold for two years, then felt I really needed to jump back in now or never, and who is really struggling to make it to a point where my child is older and things become easier.

Because of this, I strongly believe the family leave laws in the US need to be changed. Drastically. Something Canadian-style would do...

[amma_mama]

I take home about $5400 per month, after taxes. I work full-time as a trade economist/economic development consultant (helping developing countries). DH is in the same line of work but is self-employed, so his income varies, but averages about $3000 per month in take-home pay, though that is steadily climbing. No benefits from his job, so that is covered by mine (6 weeks vacation/ personal/sick leave, good health and dental, emergency backup childcare, etc.). I have not been paying into my 401(k) lately, but should be able to start investing again in the near future.

I have a Masters degree in International Economics and 13 years of experience in my specific field, which is very narrow, so only a few companies that do the same kind of work. While my experience gives me some flexibility to working in other jobs (and I am actually applying around now), if I want to stay in my narrower field, there is a lot of pressure to travel overseas a lot. I enjoyed that before DD - got to go to a lot of amazing places on the company dime (actually on YOUR dime as a taxpayer, as they were mostly US government funded projects) - but now cannot bear to go on 3-week trips. Hence, the current job hunt as it is becoming more difficult to avoid the travel.

My income pretty much covers all our monthly expenses (mortgage, school/child care for DD, utilities, car, food). We just bought a house that needs a lot of renovations, so we are using DH's income for that, with part going back in to savings to rebuild that. We will be able to save a bit more this coming year now that DD will be going to public school, so we only have to cover after-school care ($350 per month) versus private school + care ($1200+ per month)...I am thinking that the difference is what would go into our retirement savings.

For retirement, if we do not have enough to live comfortably in the US, we will likely settle in DH's home country, where the cost of living is far cheaper.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by amma_mama

I take home about $5400 per month, after taxes. I work full-time as a trade economist/economic development consultant (helping developing countries). DH is in the same line of work but is self-employed, so his income varies, but averages about $3000 per month in take-home pay, though that is steadily climbing. No benefits from his job, so that is covered by mine (6 weeks vacation/ personal/sick leave, good health and dental, emergency backup childcare, etc.). I have not been paying into my 401(k) lately, but should be able to start investing again in the near future.

I have a Masters degree in International Economics and 13 years of experience in my specific field, which is very narrow, so only a few companies that do the same kind of work. While my experience gives me some flexibility to working in other jobs (and I am actually applying around now), if I want to stay in my narrower field, there is a lot of pressure to travel overseas a lot. I enjoyed that before DD - got to go to a lot of amazing places on the company dime (actually on YOUR dime as a taxpayer, as they were mostly US government funded projects) - but now cannot bear to go on 3-week trips. Hence, the current job hunt as it is becoming more difficult to avoid the travel.

My income pretty much covers all our monthly expenses (mortgage, school/child care for DD, utilities, car, food). We just bought a house that needs a lot of renovations, so we are using DH's income for that, with part going back in to savings to rebuild that. We will be able to save a bit more this coming year now that DD will be going to public school, so we only have to cover after-school care ($350 per month) versus private school + care ($1200+ per month)...I am thinking that the difference is what would go into our retirement savings.

For retirement, if we do not have enough to live comfortably in the US, we will likely settle in DH's home country, where the cost of living is far cheaper.

Sounds like an exciting, interesting, and impressive field.

[laurabfig]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

Who posted here about the book, "Getting to 50-50"?

I know several people have recommended this book on MDC. I am now through all but the last chapter and have lots of thoughts about it.

Has anyone else read it?

Would anyone like to discuss that book? We could start a different thread either in the forum or the media/book club forum.

That was me...I feel like I've been the one recommending it on a LOT of the posts that come up, because so much of what we struggle with as working mothers is addressed in that first part of the book where they review the actual research about childcare, mothers working, etc.
Would love to discuss on another post...I tried to start one a while ago and didn't get any takers on discussing. I think I even posted it in this forum. Maybe in the media forum is better. If you start a discussion, pm me and let me know! (I read it a while ago so not sure I remember enough to actually contribute much, but would love to be part of the discussion. Have a friend borrowing the book right now...)

[cchrissyy]

Laura, you're local! I bet we know some people in common, my 2nd grader has seen several area OTs over the years, both Berkeley USD and privately.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by laurabfig

That was me...I feel like I've been the one recommending it on a LOT of the posts that come up, because so much of what we struggle with as working mothers is addressed in that first part of the book where they review the actual research about childcare, mothers working, etc.
Would love to discuss on another post...I tried to start one a while ago and didn't get any takers on discussing. I think I even posted it in this forum. Maybe in the media forum is better. If you start a discussion, pm me and let me know! (I read it a while ago so not sure I remember enough to actually contribute much, but would love to be part of the discussion. Have a friend borrowing the book right now...)

Oh! Great! It's late now and I'm tired because I had a big day, but if I get a chance I'll see about starting a thread. If you start a thread or bump up one of your old ones, let me know.

I did like the book, but I was a little disappointed that the book was mostly for mothers, not for fathers. It had all kinds of advice for what a mother can do (most of which I've done) and not a whole lot in the end section about men. So, that was really a let down. I was hoping for some very direct suggestions that I could hand to my husband with the pages Post-Noted and say, here, read this and let's talk it over.

I do agree - the first part of the book was good for working mothers looking for validation that their choice is a good one. But I felt like for me, I didn't need data on the benefits of daycare or statistics on how keeping a career going and having two careers benefits a family and benefits a husband. I'd already considered those things and I've reconciled that I am better off in my career than not...just need practical suggestions for really getting to 50-50 and how to make my husband see that path.

One thing about the book is that it didn't seem like with all the suggestions a couple would really be 50-50. It sort of seemed to assume that a mother just need to give up control, let the father make mistakes, let the kids eat less than nutritious meals, overlook if directions weren't followed, etc. I don't know - do we really need to accept consistently less quality to get to 50-50? And again, it seemed like the mother would still be doing more, and as long as the dad contributed more than dads of the past that was basically 50-50. Seemed more like 60-40 to me or 70-30. Or even 80-20.



It was a good read, and I'll probably still show the book to DH, but it didn't really have a lot of practical answers for making changes in one's husband and having them see the light.

[lolar2]

I have some thoughts on the book, but is there going to be a new thread?

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by lolar2

I have some thoughts on the book, but is there going to be a new thread?

Yes, I'll start one. I'll put it here in this forum since it's a discussion point for working mothers.

[Igraine]

How much do you make after expenses? Not much.

How much do you earn? Before taxes, retirement contributions, insurance,savings deductions and social security, just under $55,000

Are you full time or part time? Full time

Who cares for your children? DH with a little daycare weekly so DH can get a break to do his errands without kids. The kids also benefit from this as they have friends at daycare and we homeschool so they are able to maintain some connections with their friends who are in school.

How much is child care per child? cheap, about $15 per kid per week unless we have them stay longer

What are your other expenses? I have a mortgage, student loans for both dh and I, all the household bills, misc. expenses for my kids, groceries and gas. We do not belong to any clubs (YMCA, health clubs), have old cars that are paid off and live in a house that is a fixer upper.

What type of benefits / retirement? We have a co-insurance for health insurance set up with a deductible of $2000 and we have some money from my employer to use towards the deductible. We have full dental until it is something extreme like a crown or the like. I make a contribution to my retirement as does my employer.

How much education did you need to get your job? How many years have you worked? I am an administrator for a non-profit, mental health organization. I have a Master's in Social work. I have worked in the human services field for over 20 years.

[SunRise]

How much do you make after expenses?
Take home is 3877.00/month (although I contribute to savings/retirement out of this - am self employed and do not have any work set up programs)

How much do you earn?
65,000 plus health benefits or 78,000 pay health benefits out of this.


Are you full time or part time?
Full time (but for the past year or two, I have had flexible hours - more like 35 and right now, about 20/wk. But when a new contract starts it will go back up to 140 hours/month - 37 hours per week.

Who cares for your children?
My 7 year old attends public school. And the past school year he went one day a week to JCC after school program. This program provides bus service from his school to the center. And then at the center he has the opportunity to take extra curricular programs (karate, tennis,etc) Previous to that he was at Montessori and he did the after-school care program.

I have a 25 week old and she currently tags a long with me.

How much is child care per child?
JCC is minimal: 8 dollars a day (non-member) If he is enrolled in an activity, I pay for the activity and 3 dollars a day to JCC. Cost Example of an activity $180 / 12 weeks (once a week)

When he was at Montessori the after school care was $2500 for the school year. This was combined with his tuition and paid monthly @ 900+/month

For the baby I am looking into at home daycare for the fall. Plan to pay 500 / month, but I haven't done the research yet ...

What are your other expenses?
Mortgage
utilities
phone
car insurance
food
savings (retirement, short term, long term, etc)
travel (for fun)
House renovations
extra curricular activities
summer camps
(I do not have cable, cell phones, student loans paid off, car is paid for...but am researching for a new one in the next year or two)

What type of benefits / retirement?
Benefits - I am self-employed.

I have private health insurance that I just recently voluntarily downgraded to catastrophic (that cost went from 1300/month to 550/month).
My kids have chp/full coverage under state program.
All three insurances are paid out of the company, before my take home.

I guess that is it! Retirement savings is done on my own.

How much education did you need to get your job? How many years have you worked?
I do electronic publishing / mass data conversion / metalanguages / quality assurance on standards.
I have been in the business for 13-15 years. Learned all of it on the job.
Started out entry level and worked up.

I have a fashion merchandising diploma and an almost completed BA in African history.

[SunRise]

When I was paying full day care expenses for my son @ Montessori, I had very little left after expenses. Maybe 100-300. It was a huge financial relief when he started 1st grade public school. We had/have extra for travel, home renos and savings.
Just wanted to let you know there is relief and child care is only for so many years! And in my experience, the money that went to childcare was alot more then what I now spend on extra curricular, travel, etc.