Vet Dilemma

[rparker]

Sorry this ended up being longer than I intended!

Background: I have two Chihuahuas, a 4 year old female, Bella (June 2006) and a 3 year old male, Frankie (January 2007); both weigh at/near 6 lb. (+/- oz). Bella has a history of vaccine reactions (rattlesnake and lyme disease vaccines, has never reacted to the "standard" vaccines) and a subluxating patella (genetic). The only health issues Frankie has had is that he has a pretty sensitive stomach. Both dogs are completely healthy otherwise.

Until August 2008 they had a vet we liked, but then we moved to another state. Their former vet had them on Interceptor (heart worm) and Frontline Plus. We've taken them a few times to a vet in our new town. First, she tried to change them from Interceptor to Heartgard because she didn't stock Interceptor in her office. I refused because I had researched this when our oldest dog was a puppy and I feel more comfortable with Interceptor because it comes in smaller doses (for smaller dogs) whereas Heartgard is "one size fits all" for dogs up to 25 lb. She refused to give me a prescription for Interceptor or to order it so we compromised and put them on Sentinel even though I felt like it was overmedicating them since they were already taking Frontline Plus. (She doesn't stock Frontline in her office but I bought it at the local feed store instead.)

My husband took the dogs to their second appointment at which they were supposed to get routine boosters. He came home and informed me that the vet had convinced him to also give them the lyme disease vaccine, despite Bella's history of reacting to the rattlesnake vaccine and her previous vet's opinion that she should only have the "necessary" vaccines. She developed an injection site reaction but it wasn't as severe as her reaction to the rattlesnake vaccine had been. The vet also sent him home with several boxes of Promeris which I refused to switch them to since they had had zero issues with Frontline and I saw no reason to change it.

My other issue with her is that she told us that they needed to be on a heart worm medication half the year, but according to this chart it's only necessary to have them on one from August to October (we live in a really cold climate). (I haven't started them on Interceptor OR Sentinel yet this year because I don't have a prescription and I feel really guilty over this.)

I don't feel comfortable taking our dogs back to this vet. Am I overreacting? There are only a few other vets in our small town and friends/neighbors have had even worse experiences with them, so I will probably have to establish care with one of the vets in a town 45 miles away. They need to see someone to get their heart worm medication, but are there even any vaccines that they NEED at this point? Or do I just need to vaccinate them for Rabies when Bella turns 5? Until we moved they received everything on schedule and saw their vet at least once per year. The last time they went to their new vet was in April 2009.

Thank you in advance to anyone who read all of that. I'm feeling like a horrible pet owner for going so long between appointments (and not refilling their meds) but I got a bad feeling from this vet

[lonegirl]

You are in Michigan, I am in Ontario....heartworm season typically runs from June Until October here. All our clients are instructed to start preventive meds June 1st. (Even in Sault Ste Marie, which is a border city with Michigan)
Were they tested for heartworm in the spring?

[Ola_]

If you don't trust the vet, I definitely think you should look for someone else. It's just too difficult to listen to their advice, especially if your pet is sick and you feel vulnerable or don't have time to seek a second opinion. Trust your instincts.

[Arduinna]

I wouldn't go back to her, you are not over reacting. It doesn't matter if she stocks what you need, you can get it from 1800 pet meds all you need is the rx from her. I refuse to be bullied by health care providers of any kind.

[SubliminalDarkness]

Switch vets for sure if you don't like the one you're with, but....

Do you really need a prescription to order pet meds online? I've ordered them without a prescription before.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I would try the other vets until you find one better suited to what you need. Even though others have had bad experiences with them dosnt mean you will.

[somegirl99]

Another vote for switching vets, you need one that you can feel comfortable with and trust their advice. I drive over an hour to see our vet, it's inconvenient but worth it as I really trust her.

[babygirlie]

Dump her. You can buy all your stuff online and go to a different vet for a rabies vacc only appointment.

[Oubliette8]

I'd find a new vet. As far as ordering meds online, there is a problem with counterfeit frontline on the market. It looks identical to legit Frontline. Frontline does not recommend buying from anywhere other than a vet. With dogs that have had sensitivities before I'd probably try to find a vet who would order it for me.

As far as the heartworm schedule, the same site tells you how to monitor temperatures to determine when to give the meds. Just because mosquitos are out does not mean they can transmit heartworm. You monitor the temps, and then once it hits the target range, wait 2-4 weeks to give your first dose (because preventative eliminates larva monthly- when you hit the target is the first day the can TRANSMIT heartworm, so you wait until your dog has been exposed, then give the drug to kill whatever he's picked up) That site recommends I do it from June to October in my area. My vet practically begged me to start in March or April. So, I monitored the temps this year- we started the first of June. But you know, the weather has been weird lately, and its entirely dependent on temperature, so its probably not a bad idea to keep an eye on it.

As far as vaccines they NEED, probably not, but it depends on what you want to keep them covered for. Lyme is a yearly vax, although it sounds like you don't really want to do that one. Lepto, if you want that is also yearly. I wouldn't recommend Lepto in a toy dog prone to reactions though, as Lepto tends to cause reactions in toy dogs. If you board your dogs, bordatella is needed yearly or every 6 months. If you don't board them often, you can just give it a few weeks before a planned vacation. I only give bordatella when I have to board, and only because almost all kennels require it, but I only board every few years, so don't vax often. Those 3 are bacterial vaxes and so need to be given more often. All the rest are viral, so you should be covered for at least 3 years from the date or last vaccination. I'm not sure about snake venom, but I don't think you need that where you live anyhow.

[rparker]

Originally Posted by lonegirl

You are in Michigan, I am in Ontario....heartworm season typically runs from June Until October here. All our clients are instructed to start preventive meds June 1st. (Even in Sault Ste Marie, which is a border city with Michigan)
Were they tested for heartworm in the spring?

Do you think that this chart is outdated then?(http://www.tibetanmastiff.net/Heartworm.html) Because it puts the entire upper peninsula and northern WI at not needing to start until August. Or it's entirely possible that I'm reading it wrong. August didn't sound that far-fetched to me though since we usually still have snow in May.

They didn't get tested this spring which is the main reason why I want to get them to a vet ASAP.

[rparker]

Originally Posted by Oubliette8

I'd find a new vet. As far as ordering meds online, there is a problem with counterfeit frontline on the market. It looks identical to legit Frontline. Frontline does not recommend buying from anywhere other than a vet. With dogs that have had sensitivities before I'd probably try to find a vet who would order it for me.

That was my reasoning for not getting the Interceptor on my own (although the one site I looked at DID want a prescription). I wonder if that also means that the Frontline I've bought at our local feed store (and occasionally at large chain pet stores) is also dubious? The next time I go in the feed store I'll ask them. It seems likely they might have a local vet who is ordering it for them since they also do vaccine clinics.

As far as vaccines they NEED, probably not, but it depends on what you want to keep them covered for. Lyme is a yearly vax, although it sounds like you don't really want to do that one. Lepto, if you want that is also yearly. I wouldn't recommend Lepto in a toy dog prone to reactions though, as Lepto tends to cause reactions in toy dogs. If you board your dogs, bordatella is needed yearly or every 6 months. If you don't board them often, you can just give it a few weeks before a planned vacation. I only give bordatella when I have to board, and only because almost all kennels require it, but I only board every few years, so don't vax often. Those 3 are bacterial vaxes and so need to be given more often. All the rest are viral, so you should be covered for at least 3 years from the date or last vaccination. I'm not sure about snake venom, but I don't think you need that where you live anyhow.

We live in an area that is endemic for Lyme disease which is why I give them Frontline even though the toxicity of it kind of freaks me out. I plan to skip getting them vaccinated for that again though since I think the risk from the vaccine is greater than either the risk of them catching Lyme disease or the negative effects of the disease itself.

We used to board them in California, but there aren't any kennels here that I'm comfortable leaving them at. The next time they do have to get it, Bella seems to do better with the nose spray than a needle.

I don't know what I should do about Lepto. They've had it before and haven't reacted to it. I guess I need to figure out how big of a risk it is locally.

No, they definitely don't need the rattlesnake vaccine where we live now. The town we used to live in *did* have problems with dogs being bitten by rattlesnakes and a shortage of the antivenin (for both dogs and humans) so it seemed prudent to vaccinate. Bella's reaction was bad enough though (she had to have surgery for the abscess that formed, despite the vet being proactive as soon as she showed signs of a reaction) that her vet recommended that she not get that vaccine in the future. And then we moved so it became irrelevant.

Thank you (everyone) for all of your feedback. I'll definitely get them an appointment with someone so they can get their heart worm test and Interceptor.

[Oubliette8]

Originally Posted by rparker

That was my reasoning for not getting the Interceptor on my own (although the one site I looked at DID want a prescription). I wonder if that also means that the Frontline I've bought at our local feed store (and occasionally at large chain pet stores) is also dubious? The next time I go in the feed store I'll ask them. It seems likely they might have a local vet who is ordering it for them since they also do vaccine clinics.



We live in an area that is endemic for Lyme disease which is why I give them Frontline even though the toxicity of it kind of freaks me out. I plan to skip getting them vaccinated for that again though since I think the risk from the vaccine is greater than either the risk of them catching Lyme disease or the negative effects of the disease itself.

When I worked at a large chain pet store, we did have vaccination clinics. It was run by a separate company with traveling vets. We also sold Frontline, that came from corporate with our regular shipments of every other product To my knowledge they were not at all related. I believe Frontline will NOT stand behind any product not bought through a veterinarian. so if you buy it at the feed store and your dogs have some sort of awful reaction, Frontline will do nothing to help. It states on the FAQ at their website that they only provide Frontline to veterinarians. Frontline from other sources is suspect, and may or may not be legit.

I also don't Vax for Lyme, sounds like we're on the same page. One thing to be aware of is that now that they have had a Lyme vax, they may test positive for Lyme on some tests. So if its ever an issue, you'll need to look into it. We hike and my dog picks up a lot of ticks so we use Frontline as well. This spring though, we had a tick attach and engorge despite the Frontline so I'd still be sure to check periodically. In our case, I chose to put her on prophylactic antibiotics for the possible exposure, which cost about $12 for a months supply from Walmart (my vet called in the script).

As far as heartworm, I tracked the temperatures as described on the webpage you linked this year because my vet was so concerned about my plan to wait until June, as that site recommends. It turns out, the map was right on. We hit our target temp range a little after the beginning of May here, which put the first dose in June. I'm glad I did the temperature checking though, for my piece of mind. You may be able to find archived daily temps for your area on a weather site so you can see what your start time this year is. I think vets have to be conservative in their recommendations to mitigate liability. Also keep in mind that some areas are naturally warmer than others, even in the same geographical area. For instance, there can be a significant temp difference between my house and the town 10 miles north. There can also be temp differences in low wooded areas vs large fields etc. So its probably good to be a bit conservative in your temp ranges as well. I once read a site that pointed out that while recorded nighttime temps might be too low, the mosquitos might be hiding up under the eaves of homes at night, which would mean they were staying somewhat warmer than the recorded temps would suggest. Also, our temps have been rather irregular the past few years, so I'd keep an eye on it anyway, because just because its been true for years past, does not mean it will stay true for future years.