No wonder so many women get bad nursing advice...

[NYCVeg]

Warning: vent.

I was at a birthday party today, chatting with someone about our kids' food allergies. She asked me if we had any idea why dd had so many, and I said something like, "We have no idea. We did everything that, at the time, we thought you were 'supposed' to do--exclusive bfing, delayed solids, etc."

She replied, "You know, I work in public health, but I didn't bf my son at all. I just don't believe it makes any difference at all."

I was too stunned to say anything and changed the subject (although I'm kicking myself now). But seriously, "I don't believe it"? If you choose to ff your kid, fine--I'm not going to make nasty comments or anything. But the scientific evidence regarding bfing is overwhelming and unequivocal. It just makes me incredibly sad that this woman is a so-called healthcare professional.

[PatioGardener]

You know, even if it made no difference to health at all (which we know it does) I'd nurse my kid.

It's warm and sweet and safe and comforting and free and available 24/7 in as much time as it takes to lift my shirt. It puts baby to sleep, soothes fears and is a perfect way to reconnect. And my baby adores it.

[PatioGardener]

oh yeah, forgot to say that I'd be really shocked and upset if anyone from my local public health unit said that. So far everyone I have encountered, from the smoking cessation team at a local fair, to the dental hygenists in schools, to the home visiting nurses, are all on board with breastfeeding.

[happysmileylady]

Perhaps what she meant was that she doesn't believe it makes ENOUGH of a difference to worry about.

[Ruthla]

I have to wonder if the fact that she works in public health is part of why she's so blind to the dangers of formula feeding- many of which are rather subtle. Does she work with a very high-risk population? She might feel that, after seeing malnourished and neglected kids, drug using pg women, teens having babies, etc, that it just doesn't matter how you feed your baby as long as you're feeding the baby enough and taking proper care of it.

I feel sad for that woman, that she missed out on the nursing bond with her baby(ies), and that they missed out on their birthright (breastmilk).

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by NYCVeg

Warning: vent.

I was at a birthday party today, chatting with someone about our kids' food allergies. She asked me if we had any idea why dd had so many, and I said something like, "We have no idea. We did everything that, at the time, we thought you were 'supposed' to do--exclusive bfing, delayed solids, etc."

She replied, "You know, I work in public health, but I didn't bf my son at all. I just don't believe it makes any difference at all."

I was too stunned to say anything and changed the subject (although I'm kicking myself now). But seriously, "I don't believe it"? If you choose to ff your kid, fine--I'm not going to make nasty comments or anything. But the scientific evidence regarding bfing is overwhelming and unequivocal. It just makes me incredibly sad that this woman is a so-called healthcare professional.

That doesn't surprise me at all. I work in an ER as a nurse, and there are many, many nurses and docs who don't believe that breastfeeding makes any difference what so ever. I often find myself playing LC to nursing mothers who come in for other issues...

[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by happysmileylady

Perhaps what she meant was that she doesn't believe it makes ENOUGH of a difference to worry about.

Well, her exact words were: "I just don't believe it makes any difference at all."

[AislinCarys]

In Sweden the general consensus is it doesn't make that much of a difference.

Yes, Sweden has a high initiation rate, but most mothers fail at breastfeeding (by which I mean that they feel like the failed or their bodies failed them), or give up, because it seems to hard.

Anyway, most people seem in total agreement that breastfeeding does not protect against allergies. Trouble is that there are studies showing the opposite, that there are more allergies in breastfed children. And yes, some studies showing some protection. It is really difficult.

And makes it really difficult to be a lactivist in Sweden (I'm very grateful to be back in a country where I can say "Breast is best" without being verbally attacked by everyone, including most lactivists.)

Actually, general debate, and articles in media, in Sweden is more likely to be touting that formula is NO WORSE than breastfeeding, and have specialist researchers come out and state that some research indicates that the 6 month breastfeeding is only for Africa, and that due to toxins, it would be better to limit breastfeeding to 4 months in countries like Sweden.

Anyone promoting breastfeeding at all and in any way is a "breastfeeding fascist" and part of the" breastfeeding mafia", and people start complaining about breastfeeding hysteria. And then the doctors and specialists repeat ad nausem that we breastfeed more and longer in Sweden than anywhere else in the world - which could have been true 20 years ago, but the breastfeeding rates have declined dramatically in the last 10 years, and the numbers are actually lower than a lot of countries by 6 months (not to mention at a year - Swedes actually seem to believe that breastfeeding 6 months-1 y is long term breastfeeding)

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by AislinCarys

In Sweden the general consensus is it doesn't make that much of a difference.

Yes, Sweden has a high initiation rate, but most mothers fail at breastfeeding (by which I mean that they feel like the failed or their bodies failed them), or give up, because it seems to hard.

Anyway, most people seem in total agreement that breastfeeding does not protect against allergies. Trouble is that there are studies showing the opposite, that there are more allergies in breastfed children. And yes, some studies showing some protection. It is really difficult.

And makes it really difficult to be a lactivist in Sweden (I'm very grateful to be back in a country where I can say "Breast is best" without being verbally attacked by everyone, including most lactivists.)

Actually, general debate, and articles in media, in Sweden is more likely to be touting that formula is NO WORSE than breastfeeding, and have specialist researchers come out and state that some research indicates that the 6 month breastfeeding is only for Africa, and that due to toxins, it would be better to limit breastfeeding to 4 months in countries like Sweden.

Anyone promoting breastfeeding at all and in any way is a "breastfeeding fascist" and part of the" breastfeeding mafia", and people start complaining about breastfeeding hysteria. And then the doctors and specialists repeat ad nausem that we breastfeed more and longer in Sweden than anywhere else in the world - which could have been true 20 years ago, but the breastfeeding rates have declined dramatically in the last 10 years, and the numbers are actually lower than a lot of countries by 6 months (not to mention at a year - Swedes actually seem to believe that breastfeeding 6 months-1 y is long term breastfeeding)

Wow, that is interesting. What happened 10 years ago to make such a difference?

[akind1]

breastfeeding 6months to 1-year seems long term in my neck of the woods also.

I know a couple moms who "made it" to around 8-10 months but gave up due to teeth, squirmy nursers, or said "it was time". I have one friend who nursed her daughter to 16 months. I get funny looks when I say I will go to a year (kind of like the ones you get when you tell people you want a natural childbirth experience)

As for OP, I am not surprised

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by akind1

breastfeeding 6months to 1-year seems long term in my neck of the woods also.

I know a couple moms who "made it" to around 8-10 months but gave up due to teeth, squirmy nursers, or said "it was time".

8 - 10 months is a lot. I wonder why you felt the need to put it in quotes?

[akind1]

I put it in quotes, because that is the words I have heard used, it is a direct quote.

I think it is great that they made it that far, don't get me wrong, any breastfeeding, no matter how long, is fantastic! but I just wish more would consider nursing longer; everyone assumes baby will be given formula sooner or later, it is a matter of when.

[NYCVeg]

I should say that, in the context of the woman's comments (she wasn't talking about choosing not to bf or not specifically due to allergies, but at all), my sense was that she didn't believe that the bfing vs. ffing would make a difference, healthwise, period.

In terms of allergies--particularly food allergies--I will absolutely concede that researchers and doctors know almost nothing about how and why certain kids get them and other don't. But my understanding was that, statistically, bfing clearly protects against allergies and other immunological problems in general.

[buckeyedoc]

I've heard people say that you can't tell which kids were breastfed or not by looking at them on the playground, so it must not matter. IMO, that argument sucks, because you can't tell all kinds of things about kids on a playground. They could have beaten cancer or been abused as infants and appear superficially normal.

Plus, what about the health benefits for the mother?

[Baby~Braatens~Mama]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

You know, even if it made no difference to health at all (which we know it does) I'd nurse my kid.

It's warm and sweet and safe and comforting and free and available 24/7 in as much time as it takes to lift my shirt. It puts baby to sleep, soothes fears and is a perfect way to reconnect.

This is exactly how I feel!

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by NYCVeg

Well, her exact words were: "I just don't believe it makes any difference at all."

But that doesn't mean that is exactly what she meant. Just this week the exact words out of my mouth were "I can't grocery shop anymore." What I meant was, I need someone to help me grocery shop between now and the end of my pregnancy. People often say one thing and make generalizations in their speech but mean something different or more or less specific.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by akind1

I put it in quotes, because that is the words I have heard used, it is a direct quote.

I think it is great that they made it that far, don't get me wrong, any breastfeeding, no matter how long, is fantastic! but I just wish more would consider nursing longer; everyone assumes baby will be given formula sooner or later, it is a matter of when.

I see. I guess I think eight or ten months, given the averages and the levels of support most women have, is pretty freaking amazing and I would take "made it" quite literally. That's amazing. I have known people with a lot of support who still couldn't make it that far for a number of reasons.

It would be nice if people could nurse longer, but at this point, I'm congratulating anyone who makes it six months.

That said, I do think it's a pity the OP heard that from a public health official. Truly WTH.

[AislinCarys]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

Wow, that is interesting. What happened 10 years ago to make such a difference?

I think it has been declining in Sweden before that, slowly, but if I remember right it is just harder to compare, as the way the records and statistics are kept/presented/calculated changed around that time.

Personally I suspect American TV have introduced a bottle culture (and a fear of natural birth). Until the early nineties there were only two free to air tv chanels, both of them commercial-free, and although cable and satelite was available it wasn't very common yet. While there was American tv, there was a whole lot less of it, as more than half the tv programs where Swedish, and then of course Danish, Norwegian, British, Australian... and no daytime tv, programming started around 5 pm, and ended before midnight.

When I saw my uncle's North-American wife was preparing formula for their newborn in the early 90s I remember being very surprised. I was still a kid, but all babies I'd ever known had been breastfed, at least for the first three months or so.

The young mothers view breastfeeding as difficult, and tying them down, and impossible to combine with equal parenting. Their mothers (who breastfed their children) view their daughters breastfeeding as too hard, unnecessary and coming in-between their desire to feed their grandchild, bond with their grandchild, babysit overnight early on and help out (yep, overheard that conversation between my mother and a group of her friends. Also a common feature in the popular magazine aimed at women over 50).

But I'll bow out of this discussion, as this isn't really relevant to the OP's first post. Sorry.

[AislinCarys]

My problem with 6-12 months viewed as long-term breastfeeding isn't that I think people should try harder at all!

I know at 6 months, even 5 months, I was proudly exclaiming "We are STILL breastfeeding!".

My point is if 6 or 8 months is viewed as long-term or extended breastfeeding, if you continue any longer, you are more than weird, an probably harming your baby.

In Sweden even the people (well baby nurses etc.) who do support breastfeeding, insists by 6-8 months that if you still are breastfeeding it is time to cut down to 2 or 3 times a day, and by closer to a year they will assume you have stopped unless you correct them.

[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by happysmileylady

But that doesn't mean that is exactly what she meant. Just this week the exact words out of my mouth were "I can't grocery shop anymore." What I meant was, I need someone to help me grocery shop between now and the end of my pregnancy. People often say one thing and make generalizations in their speech but mean something different or more or less specific.

Yes, I understand that words don't always bear a transparent and direct relationship to reality. But I was in the conversation, which lasted maybe ten minutes. Her tone throughout was utterly dismissive of breastfeeding, at times bordering on disgust. My dh, who was there, was completely shocked by how vehemently anti-bfing she was.

I don't want to spend all day parsing whether there were shades of meaning in her words that I didn't detect; I experienced the conversation and I feel confident in my interpretation of it. I stand by my original claim: I think it's sad that a public health professional was so anti-bfing.