Wit's end, desperate, ped is now saying try 48 hr of soy formula**UPDATED....not how I'd hoped**** - Page 2

[DeChRi]

Originally Posted by octobermom

you mentioned she makes a clicking sound when nursing.. Has she been properly evulated for a Cleft pallate? or a Retracted jaw or tongue?

Deanna

The LC I saw inititally looked for these, I believe. I know for sure the Cleft pallate, and she also checked for any tongue tie type of thing. I don't recall retracted jaw of tongue specifically so I will jot those down to check on as well.

I really appreaciate all of the input and ideas.

So after she has the bottle, she started waking about 10-15 min later (I am wearing her in the sling now) and while she was half snoozing I tried nursing and she latched right on, nursed for 3-4 min, popped off, squirmed about and was about to lose it, I tried offering again and no dice, she then took binky and is back asleep in the sling. Sorry for the play by play, but I am trying to find a pattern of something and hoping someone can pick up and AH HA! in the way she does things.

[tippy]

hmmm, i'm a new momma/BFer myself so i don't have a lot of experience under my belt, but to me it almost sounds as though it's an issue of her preference to the bottle. does she take the bottle with no problem every time you offer? this may not be ideal, but maybe you can pump and bottle feed for a little bit to see if her fussiness/crying continues ((hugs)) hang in there momma!

[Tjej]

Is it possible she's over tired during the day and that is why she's melting down?

Could she prefer the bottle over the breast?

I know when my kids were that age they both went about 1 day where they hardly ate, and they also got to the point where they wanted to space out nursings a lot more. If I offered and they were not hungry yet, they'd get pretty pissed.

My DS also had dairy issues and I'd say for us it took a couple of weeks to really have a new baby. I saw you tried it for 3 weeks, though, so for us it was better by then.

HTH

Tjej

[DeChRi]

Thanks for the thoughts. She takes the bottle well Every Time. She could have just nursed, gulped through letdown, popped off crying, refuse to nurse, the suck down a bottle. I go back and forth between thinking I am just trying to feed her two often and she doesn't want it VS feeling like she is chronically hungry.

[Parker'smommy]

It does sound like she has a bottle preference. It happens. If you have an overactive letdown then she would prefer the bottle because it comes out in one smooth flow without choking her.

What to do? Pump off the initial overflow and then nurse her. Stop bottles altogether? I know that would be difficult because you are worried that she isn't getting enough milk. But if she prefers the bottle, she is going to cry for the bottle, ya know? I've had babies cry for the breast when I offered the bottle. THey preferred the breast and wanted that. It works both ways unfortunately.

As far as fussiness goes... I'm not thinking it's your milk, if she isn't fussy after drinking a bottle of your milk. Gas from gulping too much air?

That all said....my oldest was like this. It took us 14 days to get him to even latch to the breast and then it was FUSS, FUSS, FUSS on the breast. IT wasn't my diet. It may or not have been overactive letdown. I'm not sure. I was a new mom and didn't have many resources to help me. Unfortunately, or fortunately, he wouldn't take the bottle either. Around 3 months old, he started doing better and we went on to nurse for 3 years

Oh, one thing that I did a lot was pick him out of a sleep and nurse him. He was half asleep and he'd take the breast better that way for some reason.

Good luck momma.....I can feel your desperation and I am really hoping that this all resolves quickly for you. HUGS!

[larzanna]

Originally Posted by Stephenie

Also, do you eat a lot of acidic foods? Tomato, oranges, pineapple etc? If so, try cutting those back too.

DS cried the first 8 weeks of his life. Dairy made no difference, but tomatos did. Also, the chiro was magic!!! Have them do his head too, cranial manipulation for the plates in the head (someone else i am sure has more info) I swear made a huge difference, that and not eating tomatos.

Even now at 15 months, if he has a few fussy days in a row i take him to the chiro and get him "straightened out" (hehe) makes a difference.

It super sucks to have a screaming baby (and its sad that they must hurt and can't tell you where/why), I hope you get this figured out asap!

[DeChRi]

I don't eat citrus friut but I do eat a load of tomatos, esp the last few weeks since they started poppin in our garden!

So I've pumped and given her two bottles thus far & damn if she isn't happy! I wonder if she was just hungry?? I wonder what made her like the bottle more? Did I over-correct my over-supply and over-active letdown problem and now she is fustrated as she doesn't get enough? I have no doubt we'll have a long breastfeeding relationship. I just need to know if it's supply, bottle preference, allergy, etc..so I know a plan of attack.

[Baby~Braatens~Mama]

[eclipse]

Are you holding her in exactly the same position when you give her the bottle? If she's slightly more upright or something, there could be pain involved in sucking in the breastfeeding position.

If it's just that it's not coming fast enough, maybe try an eyedropper of milk while she's at the breast, dribbling it in as she takes her first sucks?

[ErikaS57]

My second was very much like that - super fussy during the day, fine at night. I tried everything and it turned out to be gas. Go figure. She needed to be burped for about 20 minutes after EVERY feeding, otherwise she was a miserable baby. She outgrew it around 4 months or so, but it was hell till we figured it out. I'd burp her and she'd burp, but she needed to burp 5+ times to get it all out; meanwhile I was stopping when I heard that first burp.

I don't know why it didn't bother her at night though, weird...

[boobs4milk]

personally, i'd ditch the bottles and use an sns until she gets back to breast. this is not easy, but it helped us ditch them. it took us about 3 1/2 weeks.

[Parker'smommy]

Originally Posted by DeChRi

So I've pumped and given her two bottles thus far & damn if she isn't happy! I wonder if she was just hungry?? I wonder what made her like the bottle more? Did I over-correct my over-supply and over-active letdown problem and now she is fustrated as she doesn't get enough? I have no doubt we'll have a long breastfeeding relationship. I just need to know if it's supply, bottle preference, allergy, etc..so I know a plan of attack.

I came back to see if you had updated today and I have to say that it sounds like she has a nipple preference for the bottle. Whether that is because of a low flow or high flow, I don't know. How is it when you pump?

I would honestly try getting rid of the bottles altogether. She's young enough that if you get through a tough week of not using bottles she will go back to the breast again. Try by feeding her while she's alseep and she doesn't know that she is getting the breast instead of her preferred bottle. Good luck!

[luckymamaoftwo]

Oh man, so many parts of your posts sound just like my DS and our experiences for the past 5 months. I never felt like I figured it out exactly (totally get the whole cause and effect thing stumping you....so stressful when your baby is crying and unhappy), but things have improved. Here's what I did:

Block feeding for several weeks---seemed to help regulate my supply
Switched from Zantac to a Prevacid compound
Eliminated all dairy (even hidden) since May and almost all soy (except some foods with lecithin or soybean oil)
Eliminated eggs and peanuts--both large parts of my diet, so that just made sense
Started probiotics--culturelle dairy free--haven't noticed much change yet, but will keep with it

Part of me wonders if my DS, now 6 months, would have naturally improved despite all my best efforts. I don't know?

I'm also looking for a chiro as I've heard great things about their work on babies like ours.

Hugs. Hang in there. I understand the feeling that you're neglecting your household and your other children. It's so very hard.

[Heba]

Originally Posted by Awaken

along with a chiropractor, craniosacral work is reported to really help fussy babies.

Yes this. Especially if you can't find a chiro, do consider a cranial osteopath. (if it's going to help, which it often does, you should see a difference after one or two sessions).

[Heba]

PS Kellymom has info on CS and chiro therapy which may be helpful in deciding if you want to pursue it; also googling cranial osteopathy breastfeeding throws up some interesting links. Good luck Mama, you're doing a fabulous job against all odds.

[HonkyTonka]

Hugs!

Maybe DD is afraid of the breast from the OAL...

you could also check this out:
http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...tion&Itemid=17

could the fussiness be hunger?

[maddymama]

Is you LO having an issue with your soap, or deodorant? If she likes your milk in a bottle, maybe she is having an issue with your soap bothering her....
Does she have an ear infection? Maybe lying on her side and having to work to nurse irritates her ear?
Also, my LO had bad colic when she was little. All that helped was me drinking tons of chamomile tea daily (like 4 mugs steeped for a long time) for a while. At first she was screaming for hours nightly, and within 48 hours of starting to drink the tea, she was crying for less than 1 hour.

[karika]

Initially my thought was dairy and soy. Soy is in everything. It is called lecithin, alpha tocopherol and vitamin E. it is in your your supplements most likely, also dairy could be in the supplements. It is in skin care too. Nearly every bit of makeup or lotion or sunscreen or shampoo has vitamin e (soy). Then I read that dd takes your milk in a bottle fine. Then I thought same as above poster, it could be your deodorant or body wash, etc. Another thought is did she get a vaccination recently? that causes all sorts of reactions that include crying, but doesn't sound like this either.

After reading all the posts, this is what I think. baby wants bottle and paci instead of breast. If you want baby back on breast, get rid of paci and bottles.

In one of your posts you mention that you feel you would have issues with weight if you cut out dairy because you feel it would limit your food choices. I went dairy free nearly a year ago and I have found it is the opposite. Dairy in the diet is what limits diets, since most people have dairy in every meal. I am now gluten, soy, dairy, corn(organic popcorn twice a month only), canola and meat free , though I still use eggs in baking. I have a great diet. I am not a body builder however. I would recommend coming to the allergy forum for ideas on what to eat if you open up your diet by eliminating dairy. For one thing, smoothies made with fresh or frozen fruit, banana, homemade almond milk or store bought coconut milk from So Delicious, add kale or spinach, put in hemp powder for protein.... very yummy.

Right now you are frazzled and need to get to a peaceful way of being again however. I wish you luck and hope you find what works for you and your family. Many others have had good posts too. It may be that you would be best to give her bottles exclusively for a couple days while you rest up to reintroduce breast. but, I have not btdt and maybe it is best to just remove them (any nipple but breast nipple) asap.

[DeChRi]

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful posts and advice. I have disected every bit of it. I have been paying attention in detail the last 36 hrs, trying desperately to figure this out. I THINK I have come to a couple conclusions.

1) I am diggin myself deep with the bottle. Initially the LLL LC and hospital LC diagnosed me w/ overactive letdown and oversupply. So I worked on that. I am not sure what caused the drastic supply drop (starting back on BC pills??) but over the last 3-4 weeks my supply has gone way down and my letdown is slowwwwww coming. She has to have one bottle a day while I am gone for a couple hours, but she has developed an immediate preference for the bottle. Since I am home with a tempermental 2yo, sometimes I go the pumped bottle route when the baby is screaming with hunger and wont nurse. I am perpetuating the bottle/supply/slow letdown, etc cycle.....

2) Something in my diet is giving her AWFUL gas and gut pain. As of tomorrow I am cutting everything possible and seeing what helps.

For the next couple days, my awesome DH has offered to take some hours at home during the day with my 2yo so I can be patient with the standoff with baby girl when she just wants the bottle. She gets hungry and screams and refused the breast. Will be tough to ride that out. So wish me luck over the next few days.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by DeChRi

I am not sure what caused the drastic supply drop (starting back on BC pills??)

what kind? when?? even the mini pill can tank supply - rare but definitely a possibility.

how are baby's diapers? are you getting 6 heavy wets in 24 h? have you got a weight lately? baby growing ok? eta: i see her curve has dropped - is she gaining less than 5 oz a week since last weigh-in?

i ask because i have seen a baby who had bad gas / pain from hunger, mom's supply had tanked. this may not be you at all, but i thought it worth mentioning just in case. (nak at 2 am, i may very well be over thinking this!)
personally i would stop the bc pill asap.

hope you guys are doing ok.