No! I won't go to my room!

[mom2happy]

Ok, Now what?
7 yr old DD started screaming at DS(5yrs old) because he was sitting too close to her on the couch.
Everyday her screaming wakes up baby.
I tell her every time how upset I am that she wont keep her voice down and that we can talk about things instead of yelling. We go over and over different ways to handle things. She still carries on and screams, yells, and hits her brother.
She was out of control this morning and nothing I could do or say was helping her to regain it or stop acting like this.
I told her to go to her room until she felt better and that she could not treat her family who loves her this way. She said "No! Ill come out, what are you gunna do anyway?"
She just walked around and went downstairs and then came up and started yelling again.
This is new and short of dragging her (she's giant btw) with a baby in my other arm- nothing I could do.
I am 100% positive that I have done everything to understand where she's at right now and validate her feelings, but she is being an absolute animal.
I know she will be fine and sweet in about 20 minutes, but right now I feel like I, myself have no way of handling this kid. I am actually scared of this defiance since she is only 7 and Im worried about what she will be like when she is older.
I'll feel fine very shortly after I post this, but this is the temporary feeling I get when she acts out. She has NO self control at home. I have to figure this out.
Im reading some of the books mentioned by others when I posted last time about my DD's anger. Unfortunately, so far, they seem to be differently wording the same methods Im using.
I guess Im looking for advice from experienced moms w/ kids this age or older who have dealt with the NO I wont phase.

[ChetMC]

What I Do

Our 4.5 (almost 5) year old DD is like this. She screams a lot. She will flat out refuse to do things as well.

When DD says no, I ask her what she is going to do instead. If she is screaming, or having a lot of trouble getting along with everybody, or bothering the baby, etc, and she clearly needs some alone time, I will tell her to go to her room. If she says no, I will ask her where she is going to go instead or what she is going to do instead. She can't continue to do what she is doing. If she doesn't like my solution she can propose her own. The non-negotiable part isn't the room, it's the screaming, hurting, annoying, etc.

If I ask her to go to her room because she is being too loud, the problem is basically that she needs to be loud somewhere else. She can choose to go outside instead. If she is bothering the baby or tormenting older DS, again, I don't specifically need her in her room. She just needs to leave her brothers alone.

My goal isn't so much that the kids need to follow instructions. They do however, need to recognize and solve problems once they are identified.

I also don't accept, "I will stop". I need to know what you are going top do instead of sitting on your brother and screaming at the top of your lungs. I'm going to read a book or draw a picture is fine.

[NellieKatz]

A book I read recently (Angry Children, Worried Parents) addressed the refusal to go to a cool-down period (a time out, but not as punishment but as a place for the kid to calm down and get back in control). One minute for each year of age.

Have a period of time where they can comply. For example, our cool-down/time out is 5 minutes even though DS is 7. I say "I am going to count to twenty, and by then you need to be in cool-down....if you aren't then it becomes 10 minutes" It always works, and even when he is steaming, stomping, fuming mad! If he still didn't go, he'd lose "family privileges" (a list we've agreed on, of fun but nonessential activities) or "all media" or something. It never gets that far; our DS goes to his cool-down even when he is just spitting mad. And it works. Being in his room like that without anyone to argue with or yell at, he does calm down. When he comes out, there are no lectures, no mention. Life just goes on as normal.

Hope that helps

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by ChetMC

Our 4.5 (almost 5) year old DD is like this. She screams a lot. She will flat out refuse to do things as well.

When DD says no, I ask her what she is going to do instead. If she is screaming, or having a lot of trouble getting along with everybody, or bothering the baby, etc, and she clearly needs some alone time, I will tell her to go to her room. If she says no, I will ask her where she is going to go instead or what she is going to do instead. She can't continue to do what she is doing. If she doesn't like my solution she can propose her own. The non-negotiable part isn't the room, it's the screaming, hurting, annoying, etc.

If I ask her to go to her room because she is being too loud, the problem is basically that she needs to be loud somewhere else. She can choose to go outside instead. If she is bothering the baby or tormenting older DS, again, I don't specifically need her in her room. She just needs to leave her brothers alone.

My goal isn't so much that the kids need to follow instructions. They do however, need to recognize and solve problems once they are identified.

I also don't accept, "I will stop". I need to know what you are going top do instead of sitting on your brother and screaming at the top of your lungs. I'm going to read a book or draw a picture is fine.

This is great. Thanks. I will try asking her what she is going to do instead.

[2cutiekitties]

Sounds like she is having power struggles. She feels powerless on the couch, so she lashes out at her brother. What do you do to give her power? Do you validate her? Do you ever offer her a hand to punch when she is really ticked off? Or do you immediately start in with how upset you are?

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by NellieKatz

A book I read recently (Angry Children, Worried Parents) addressed the refusal to go to a cool-down period (a time out, but not as punishment but as a place for the kid to calm down and get back in control). One minute for each year of age.

Have a period of time where they can comply. For example, our cool-down/time out is 5 minutes even though DS is 7. I say "I am going to count to twenty, and by then you need to be in cool-down....if you aren't then it becomes 10 minutes" It always works, and even when he is steaming, stomping, fuming mad! If he still didn't go, he'd lose "family privileges" (a list we've agreed on, of fun but nonessential activities) or "all media" or something. It never gets that far; our DS goes to his cool-down even when he is just spitting mad. And it works. Being in his room like that without anyone to argue with or yell at, he does calm down. When he comes out, there are no lectures, no mention. Life just goes on as normal.

Hope that helps

This actually works for DS (5yrs old) He just needs a bit of help "straightening out", but this DD I have is just really intense and quite different when it comes to certain things.
That is a good book, I think for a kid that would respond to that.
My DD cant be threatened in any way. It just puts her into an emotional mess where she really flips out badly.

[Mummoth]

Sometimes when DS starts to get chronically defiant, it's a sign that he's ready for another responsibility/privilege. He picks a crappy way of pushing the boundaries, but I usually find that if I find a way to say "You sure are growing up, I think you're big enough to handle *fill in the blank* now" (obviously NOT in the moment of conflict!) that it pushes us out of his defiance rut. The most recent one was that he the garbage/recycling out to the lane every week for me for $2... he collects rocks, and now he's got an income to support that.

When they need a break, my kids have the option of going to their room or taking a shower. Sometimes if DS is in a very argumentative mood, I purposely 'forget' to say one of the choices, so he can defiantly say "No! I'm going to take a shower!" or "No! I'll be in my room!"

If they won't do either, then the consequences start adding up. Depending on what we have to do that day I will either tell them that if they can't follow directions, I'm not willing to take them out (being able to follow directions is important if you're going to be crossing streets or moving around in crowded places.) or I'll say their inability to do what they're told is an indication to me that they need more sleep and bedtime will be early tonight.

Occasionally, DS has said that he's going outside (we live on a street with lots of kids, there's always someone to play with in the lane) when I tell him room/shower, and at that point I tell him if he doesn't comply, his bike will be locked up for 2 days. That's pretty much the ONLY time I'll restrict access to his bike/going outside. They need to be able to go outside and, as their dad so eloquently puts it "Go blow some farts off!"