Gender Identity - Sort of an updare in post 35 - Page 2

[lolar2]

Stacy can be a boy's name, too. I don't know if that would make it more appealing or less appealing to him.

[Sierra]

LOL True enough, though I must say that when I told him I was writing to her, we were also looking at a picture of her, and he was just looking at her so adoringly.

[AllisonR]

I think you've gotten great replies here. Could be anything at this point, and as so many PP mentioned, SUPPORT and LOVE are really the biggest issues, and it sounds like you are giving her that.

FWIW I was pretty angry as a child about being a girl. I wanted to do something with my life, but my conservative catholic american south culture really beat it into me daily that "yes, you can do or be whatever you want... but you really are only a female so your main goal in life should be to get a nice boy to marry you, become his property, bear his children, put all your needs aside, make yourself a little hobby instead of thinking of a silly career and for g*d sake put some make up on and show how pretty you are, because that is really the only way you are going to get ahead in life." My identity was not mine, I was to be chattle to someone else. Virgin chattle, more preciesely, because a non-virgin had no value as chattel. Seems only logical I was angry. Not saying this is where your DD is at, just saying people say one thing, but societys messages are often 180 degrees different than what is said.

[lazzybee]

I have to chime in to say that it's AWESOME that you're so supportive of your LO. When I read your post I was so amazed at how much you respect her wishes--so many people would do the opposite!

It's important for her to know that gender is largely performance. Where she thinks food toys or pink things are inherently feminine, they are merely designated as signifiers of women. This is heavy for a child--for anyone who was brought up to believe this, really--but her gender rebellion won't necessarily play out as a sex change. I spent many a night crying about being a girl and tried my damnedest to act like a boy and reject the "girly," until I realized that the notion of femininity I hated was just a product of a destructive patriarchal system. That's when I realized I was a militant feminist--ha! (And now happily married to a feminist man)

Anyway, I guess why I'm posting this is that gender performance is one thing and sex change is another. My sister is a transitioning MTF, and of course I 100% support it, but the "learning to act like a woman" aspect makes me cringe! lol. It's true she needs to perform society's role in order to be accepted as such, but it's just so damn destructive! ie "women carry purses this way. here is how a woman should cross her legs when seated."

I think the suggestions on this thread so far have been great--counseling, seeking out people from the LGBT community, etc.

[ramama]

OP, I was exactly like your daughter when I was that age, probably until I hit puberty, and then still quite a tomboy Like your DD, I didn't wear anything that could possibly be seen as girl clothes, I played with Transformers, He-Man, Voltron, etc. (dating myself, aren't I? LOL) and wore boys underoos. I wouldn't say that my mother supported me, but she didn't resist. She was a young widow with two kids and I just don't think that was the hill she was going to die on.

I didn't have the same exact anger towards my mother as your DD seems to have, but I think my circumstances were just different. I definitely saw her as an outsider, and was very angry at her because I held her responsible for my father dying when I was 5 (she didn't kill him, BTW!) but I was so close to my father, that I just didn't transfer that affection to my mother. So, yes, a lot of anger towards my mother, but not because she is a girl I don't think. I was angry at her for not being my father, but not simply because she was a woman. At least not that I remember.

I also wouldn't call it a phase, because although it did not last forever, it was a time in my life that had a great impact on my developing identity, and who I am today. It wasn't just a passing phase, if you know what I mean. It was way more than that.

I think that it started petering out around puberty, when I started looking like a girl no mater what I did. I still don't wear overly girly clothing, pink is still kind of gross to me, I don't wear make-up, I don't wear jewelry, I had no interest in boys until college, don't own a pair of heels or a dress, etc. Overly feminine girls/women still make me a bit uncomfortable. My must-wear-a-dress-every-day-and-something-pink-too youngest DD baffles me. I am much more comfortable in the boys' section of the toy store than in the girls' section. I go to the store and eyeball the boys underoos and wonder if I can fit into a boys size 14. But I think I have a stronger sense of identity and body image, and am more comfortable in my own skin, than most women I know.

I think that being accepting of who your DD is, is more important than being supportive. Kids know when you are being supportive because you believe this is a phase that you think/hope is going to pass. I would address the anger towards you, though, but everything else I'd accept without question, whether it "passes" or not.

[PatchChild]

Fyrestorm, go you for being such a fantastic parent. It just stinks that our society makes such an issue over gender.

There's a great blog that you might like.
http://labelsareforjars.wordpress.com/

They are raising a little boy, but he also has his own opinions. It's a great read for those of us with children who push boundaries.

[MusicianDad]

Ok, I just wanna give a big to all the supportive MDC parents here. It gives me hope for the future of kids like the OP's and Sierra's when I read stuff like this on here.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Ok, I just wanna give a big to all the supportive MDC parents here. It gives me hope for the future of kids like the OP's and Sierra's when I read stuff like this on here.

oh MD i wanna cry reading your post. it is so so so so so sad that you even have to acknowledge this.

i want to say sooo much more esp. on this momentous day in California... but i will keep my silence.

one of the biggest lessons from parenting that i have learnt is that - our children want our love and support. they dont necessarily want us to fix things. they just dont want to feel alone in either their sadness or happiness. and for me as a parent that is the hardest thing for me to do. to just watch my dd's pain and not jump in and try to fix it.

[snoopy5386]

Count me in as another former die hard tomboy - I wore boys clothes including underwear, had a boy's haircut, had all boy friends, all boy toys, wanted desperately to be a boy. I had to be bribed beyond belief to wear a dress for my 1st communion and even then, it had to be the absolute plainest dress possible and I only wore it for the ceremony and then it was immediately off. I would sometimes put a balled up pair of socks in my underwear to pretend to have a penis. I'm not transgendered, I'm not gay, I'm now a happily married mom of two daughters. I still am not what you would call feminine - I tend very much toward unisex/male clothing, hate wearing dresses, heels, makeup, nail polish, etc. All of my friends are still guys and I like lots of guy hobbies. I also love being pregnant, love breastfeeding and being a mom, love gardening, cooking, sewing and other more feminine hobbies.
I would not have been caught dead in anything pink, purple, sparkly or ruffly either.
I'm another who wouldn't call it a phase, it lasted pretty much until puberty when my raging hormones changed the way I looked at boys and I wanted to start to impress them. I'm sure everyone in my family breathed a great big sigh of relief when I got my first boyfriend.
I also marvel every day at the irony of life with regard to my oldest daughter who is basically the exact opposite of me - she has only worn dresses for the past 2 years (when she discovered nightgowns aka dresses you can wear to sleep, she was over the moon), loves everything pink and sparkly, asks constantly when she can wear high heels and is just the most girliest, girl I've ever met.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by meemee

oh MD i wanna cry reading your post. it is so so so so so sad that you even have to acknowledge this.

I always get a little choked up reading threads like this, and hearing this kind of thing in the wider world because it reminds me that we are moving forward. and making progress. Some times it seems like we're trying to dig through a 50ft cement wall with a plastic spoon, but then you come across people like I've met on MDC who are accepting, even when they aren't part of the LGBTQ community and it just hits you how much things have changed. There is still a long way to go, but with people teaching their kids to stand up for others and being willing to speak out themselves, there's a promise that the next generation will be a little more open and a little more welcoming.

Just keep on fighting and we all get a little more free.

And just because I love it http://www.crimethinc.com/tools/post...sion_front.pdf

[A&A]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

And just because I love it http://www.crimethinc.com/tools/post...sion_front.pdf

Way cool.

[babygirlie]

boy clothes fit better :x Girl clothes have to hug all the wrong places and be tight and scoop necked to the belly button and jeans pre curve formed. Boy clothes hang straight and don't hug you in funny spots. I don't need my but hugged in jeans nor zipped under my bra. I like them to hang UNDER my belly button and loose. I still wear a lot of boy clothes :/ I also did not play with dolls but looked for adventures in the wooded areas and built forts.


What worries me is that she wants to KILL and DESTROY all females including her mother. I hate to put the Debbie Downer in but.. could a female have done something to really hurt her and create a resentment in females? I would ignore the boy clothes and try to discover why such hatred for females.

I don't think lesbians or transgendered want to KILL all of a certain gender to prove they are not that gender.

Is there a way for you to build a trust with her? That not all females are evil and that some are worth loving like her mom or aunts etc.?

[MusicianDad]

The anger that can be felt is pretty damn intense. In some cases it can be directed at the people of their biological gender because those people have something they don't, a body they are comfortable with that aligns with who they are. It's not about wanting to prove what gender you are, it's just a general frustration with the world in general.

[sunnygir1]

I've been lurking. I have not directly experienced anything closely related to this topic, so I haven't felt compelled to comment yet.

I do know a boy who is 5 or 6. He wears tights constantly; I think they are his favorite garment. I have seen him at dances in a dress. He likes plenty of girly things and is a sweet boy. His parents love and support him and apparently let him decide what he wants to wear inside and outside their home. He does not attend public school, so I guess the "danger" in dressing strangely or as a girl in public is mitigated by the presence of one or both of his parents.

I actually live in a community where it is not uncommon to see children of all ages dressed in very wild, unconventional outfits...lots of supportive, home schooling parents around. I love to see it.

I have enjoyed this thread and found it enlightening; thanks to all who shared stories and ideas.

[Fyrestorm]

Sort of update

Thank you all for the relies and links.

School started today, I'm holding my breath to see how things went. DD was not a happy camper this morning though.

I've spoken to someone recommended by our local PFLAG chapter. She tells me I'm doing all the right things. She doesn't want to speak with DD at this point (worried that unless this reached crisis, seeing a shrink (her words) will just make her feel more broken than she already feels). She has recommended that we take a wait and see aproach as we work through the beginning of the school transition and if her anxiety increases or decreases once she's settled with her new teacher and friends.

[Coco_Hikes]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Just keep on fighting and we all get a little more free.

And just because I love it http://www.crimethinc.com/tools/posters/gender_subversion_front.pdf

Awesome, and double awesome.

I so admire the parents who have commented on this thread, the OP and PPs alike.

[Ravin]

Seeking counseling for your child is NOT going to be harmful. I'd say wait and see, too, except for the anger--that anger needs to be dealt with, the sooner the better. It could go a couple of ways--your child could hit puberty and settle in to being female. OR, puberty could make it worse, hormones can amplify the anger, and that anger could be focused outward leading to struggles and serious discipline problems, or turned inward with serious consequences (cutting, eating disorders, even suicide attempts).

Or, you child could settle for being female when puberty comes along, only to have the whole mess rear its head again a couple of decades later.

Professional counseling with someone experienced with gender issues, esp. in children, can help you help your child deal with that anger.