Someting went wrong - I am withdrawing from my 4yr daughter - Page 2

[Norasmomma]

Yeah my DD is one of those kids where sometimes going to her room and playing with her dolls is the best thing for her, she says the things that are bugging her through imaginary play is very effective. It's not really a "time-out per se, it is a calming out, she needs to disengage from the situation that is frustrating to her, she is high energy and so am I, so when we butt heads we are not good at anything communication-wise. I think if a child is screaming, hitting and won't calm down this in fact is the safest and gentlest way to deal with this behavior. A thrashing child can hurt themselves or you. I know IME that DD calms down, and lays down for a minute or two, then plays with her toys to unwind. Then we talk about the situation in a calm manner, I ask her why she is upset and what we need to do, it's not in the heat of the moment. It's not abandonment for some kids, for some it's necessary, I know it is for me to sort out my feeling when I am upset, so why would it be any different for my DD who is exactly like me in most ways.

[lolar2]

In hunter-gatherer cultures, I've read, it is common for children to be spaced by 4 years, and when each baby is born, the 4-year-old older sibling is sent to the tribe's informal playgroup. This is because 4-year-olds can do OK away from their parents and they really enjoy playing with other children. In agrarian cultures, 4-year-olds are either helping in the fields, or left at home helping take care of the littler children while their parents work in the fields. And in industrialized countries, it is very common even for SAHPs to send 4-year-olds to preschool (or playschool or Pre-K or whatever). I'm thinking that the urge to separate oneself from one's 4-year-old seems pretty universal! That is nothing against keeping them home if you want to do it, of course, and many parents prefer that, but it is so common across cultures to spend some time away from one's 4-year-old every day that I think it is safe to say that the desire to do so is normal.

[Linda on the move]

for the record, I think letting a tantrum run it's course in another room is just fine. I don't see it as a punishment, just the natural and logical consequences.

When my kids went through a tantrumy phase, I gave them a cold wash cloth to wipe their face off when the tantrum had run its course to help them transition back.

[choli]

Originally Posted by lolar2

That is nothing against keeping them home if you want to do it, of course, and many parents prefer that, but it is so common across cultures to spend some time away from one's 4-year-old every day that I think it is safe to say that the desire to do so is normal.

I found 4 to be a very very challenging age with both of my DDs. To be honest, I would not have been able to stay at home with them at that age without losing my mind.

[journeymom]

I'll just add that my dd was 4 years and 4 months old when ds was born. I was going to never do preschool. It was about 2 months later that I was signing her up for preschool. She lovvvvvved it.

[lilyka]

I wonder if the spacing is an issue. My oldest was about 3 1/2 when I had my second. It was awful. Its not that Madeline was evil but my patience was thin and so was hers. the baby was difficult at best and poor Maddee was not getting her needs met (specifically her need for a nap.) Maddee's four was hell for us. However when #3 came along (granted I did a lot of things differently) Lily was still a baby and Maddee was old enough to hold her own a but more. By the time Lily was four the baby was two and not as needy as a newborn. and of course by the time Ava (baby) was four she was the princesses....and had no one to displace her from her throne. i think four is a hard time to become an older sister.

[Learning_Mum]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - 4yo suck. The are just hard work. Everything is an argument. They start with the attitude. The push at every. single. boundary! This past year or so for us and been horrid! We're only just starting to come out the other side now.

I agree that preschool could be great for your DD. DS1 attends kindy five mornings a week and he just loves it. The school holidays were a nightmare TBH. He's actually getting to the point where he is so ready for school. The afternoons have been an absolute nightmare. He's just bored. I think going to school until 3pm is going to be sooooo good for him. He'll be 5yo at the end of the month BTW.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with a time out for a tantrum. I WISH I could put myself in a time out when I'm angry (the boys just follow me in the bedroom). There would be alot less yelling in this house if I could just get away for a few minutes to calm down.

I would say that some of the acting out is probably from getting less attention. Sitting on the floor with your DD would work wonders. Just sit with her while she draws or builds with blocks or anything. There's something about being down at their level which makes them feel like your participating - even if you are exhausted and just saying yes and no to questions. Just try to give her five or ten minutes when you can, I bet that it would make a huge difference to her behaviour.

I can honestly say that I have not liked DS1 for alot of the last year. 4yo is just plain hard (so glad I get to go through it all again in two years!!)

[frugalmum]

I think it's ok to withdraw, it's ok to go a bit cold as long as you are not mean about it. Your job is to provide for her, first and foremost. Make sure her basic necessities are taken care of. After that give yourself a break. Detach a bit if you have to. I've often had to think of myself as something of an orphanage director when the kids are driving me mad. I emotionally detach, but am still nice and polite, make sure all their basic needs are met, and at the end of the day my job is done, I kick up my feet and do something for myself. I'm not like this every day but on bad days I do go into this mode. It's better to be a bit detached and nonchalant, yet remain polite and calm, then throw your heart out there 100% all the time and start screaming and melting down yourself.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

I gave them a cold wash cloth to wipe their face off when the tantrum had run its course to help them transition back.

Click, just added to my toolbox. Great idea. I'm sure I've read it but somehow now is the time it is really needed. Thanks!

[LROM]

OP I don't know if you're still reading, but I wanted to add that while you did get a lot of great advice in this discussion, your posts make me think you may be *so* overwhelmed that you're not even sure where to start with some of it.

For that reason, I think there is nothing at all wrong with talking to a counselor. It can be something you just do a few times and then you're done... or if you like it and it works for you, keep going.

But sometimes even really basic advice is hard to follow if you feel totally and completely stuck.

I also wanna say that not only is your 4 yo's behavior sounding very typically 4 yr old, it's also very typical of a child with a new sibling. 4 yrs old is old enough to be able to have something of a conversation with her, asking her what she needs, asking her to talk instead of just breaking down into a tantrum... have you tried those things? Sometimes when older sibs feel threatened and less loved because of a new sibling, they will do WHATEVER it takes to get more attention from parents - even if it's negative attention. I'm just worried that if you stay in the stuck/shut down place you're sinking into, you'll be reinforcing this dynamic instead of helping both ofyou get out of it.

Many have suggested sitting on the floor with her, talking to her. I'd also add some time that is JUST for you and her. You said your husband takes her out so you can just be with the baby... well as much as you're not liking her right now and probably don't want to do it, you should see what happens in your dynamic with her if you say "You know what, I miss spending time with you when everything's good and happy and you're not upset. Once in awhile let's have mommy/daughter time just you and me. We can probably only figure it out once in awhile... but we'll start this weekend. What would you like to do for an hour or two with me?"

Seriously, this could have a HUGE impact on your dynamic with her.

Best of luck momma, what you feel is totally normal, but it's a dynamic that can definitely get worse and have a snowball effect, where how you feel and how you then treat your daughter impact her behavior and make her even MORE someone you're not liking much right now... which then makes you withdraw even more, etc etc. It could go to a very bad place... so try to find some support to try out new ways of dealing with her and see if you and your DH can shift this dynamic.

Good luck!