christianity and circ-need info!!!

[jee'smom]

hi all! i'm here from the ext. bf boards and wanted to ask a question. my dh and i are trying for a second child and i don't want to circ. if we have a boy (our first is a girl) i've just been intro. to this topic and have learned alot about this from you all! thank you! anyway, i was curious about something i read in the bible one time and the only reason i would circ. is b/c of this... i thought i had read in the old testament the God said to moses that all boys have to be circ. am i wrong about this? i'm a christian and want to do right by God, but can't believe that God would want this atrocity to happen (although i'm not questioning Him!). i'm an anatomy and physiology teacher and fully believe that how we are born is how God wants us to be! (bf and intact!) if someone could shed some light, i'd REALLY appreciate it!
also, could someone give me some info. on what the function of the foreskin is. i'm trying to teach my anat. and phys. students why it's best to leave our boys intact, but have no info. on the subject! (i already have 70 high school students that in the beginning of the year, believed in formula-feeding, and now they say "why would anyone choose NOT to breastfeed!")... i'm converting them all and would like some help on this issue as well!
thanks in advance!
keri
dd jeanna rose 12-26-02

[mattemma04]

//

[lilyka]

I don't think we are allowed to discuss this so I will type fast and copy a PM to you. :LOL just in case.

Gen 17:10-12 does indeed call for all male followers of God to be circed.

Cruel, no I don't think so. Serious, very. Harsh yes, I think so but they were drawing some pretty big lines. There was no half harted circ. Either you chose to identify yourself as a Jew and do it or you chose not to. Also I don't know if you have ever seen a circed one next to an intact one but unless they are erect there is no mistaking which is which in most cases and there was no going back. So once it was done you would be forever identifiable. So in short, you had to really want to be a Jew, really want to please God and be called his to do this. No wussy faith here. This was thier covenant with God, thier no take backs bond with Him.

So Jews therefore, according to the law must circ. No getting around it. However, according to the law they need to do lots of things which is why some find there is freedom to skip it since they find freedom to skip other parts.

Chistians on the other hand have a new covenant with Christ. The only covenant we need.

read Gal. 5:2-6, Gal. 6:11-18, Romans 2:25-29, 1 Cor. 17-20
The gist of all of these verses (apparently this was a big deal even back then, I mean why cut off somehting when you don't have to right , and there was lots of controversy about can you worship Jesus if you are not a Jew and can you convert and what must you do to convert to being a Jew if you are only converting to worship Jesus) is that nothing we do outwardly will please God but only what we do in our hearts. Cutting off a part of our body won't get us any closer to God but cutting it off and thinking that that in some way pleases him or makes us better is nothing but your garden variety pride and it negates the enourmous sacrifice Christ made for us that set us free from the Law. And if we decide to take the Laws route to pleasing God we had better get busy keeping the other 600 some laws also not just the circumcision one because we have decided to draw near to God through the Law and not through grace. We have in essence decided to aquire salvation through our own works and not by grace but Gods way is grace and if we shun that then we shun God.

Of course that leads to the question about why should Christians bother with the law at all, for which there is a very good reason why we should but that is another thread for another time (I was going to give you a verse but it appears as if the entire book of Romans addresses this)

[Nemmer]

Check out this article:

http://www.stopcirc.com/christian.html

[thepeach80]

We just discussed this on another board so I'll share some of what we discussed. The only religion we knew of that still circed for religious reasons was Jewish. Even a lot of those families are choosing to stay intact these days. I don't know what religion you follow, but you could always ask one of your leaders. I am Baptist and I know circing is not part of anything religious for us. I also read somewhere or heard from somewhere that circing in the Bible was a much smaller procedure. They simply cut a small piece of the foreskin as opposed to removing the whole thing.

[mamajo2004]

why would God want this acrocity to happen? I always wondered the same thing....and why the foreskin? Somebody once said to me that it is because it was a sacrifice for God....everyone here knows what is sacrificed by circing - sexual pleasure. I thought it was an interesting view on it....

[merpk]

It is entirely possible to tell the OP very convincingly that circumcision has nothing to do with Christianity and is not remotely necessary according to the Christian faith, without bashing any other faith or "why bother" with its "law.'

[lilyka]

Amy I am sorry to have offended. It wasn't my intention to bash anyone. I have edited my post to make it more clear what I was getting at. It is kind of an issue with Christians about why bother keeping the law if we are set free from it but Paul address the fallicy of that thinking in his letters. The main point is that God's law is for our blessing and benifit but that it doesn't get us any closer to him (salvation wise that is although it can greatly enhance our relationship with Him) because it is impossible to keep it fully, but that doesn't mean that it is useless or inaplicable (is that really a word? ). After all he wasn't giving the law just like some kind of cosmic game. he gave it, from the begininning for our benifit and blessing, so that we might know how to get along in this world and draw near to Him. I hope that clears up where I am coming from. Again I apoligize about being unclear.

[merpk]

Thanks, lilyka, for the perfect clarification of Christian theology without the dissing of anyone else's theology.

[steffanie3]

I just recieved some info I requested from nocirc.org and there was a link in it about http://www.acts15.org/ I haven't checked it out much, but since they recommended it I am sure it is good. I am going to check it later.

I would say that in the New Testament that it talks about circumcision of the heart and how that is what is important.

A quick search in my PC Bible results

1 Corinthians 7:19


Nocirc has good info on the function of foreskin and I think religious points of view also.

In my reading I seemed to have found the biblical circ was more of a cut than removing all of the foreskin.

I really prayed about this choice and have peace with my decision to leave my son the way God created him and to teach him to love the Lord and have a heart for Jesus.

My thoughts,
Stephanie

[AllyRae]

Circing is a Jewish tradition, not Christian. It was a sacrifice that once Jesus came wasn't necessary. Otherwise, churches would have ritual circs...

[lizzie]

Re: christianity and circ-need info!!!

Originally posted by jee'smom
i'm an anatomy and physiology teacher and fully believe that how we are born is how God wants us to be! (bf and intact!) if someone could shed some light, i'd REALLY appreciate it!
also, could someone give me some info. on what the function of the foreskin is. i'm trying to teach my anat. and phys. students why it's best to leave our boys intact, but have no info. on the subject! (i already have 70 high school students that in the beginning of the year, believed in formula-feeding, and now they say "why would anyone choose NOT to breastfeed!")... i'm converting them all and would like some help on this issue as well!
thanks in advance!
keri
dd jeanna rose 12-26-02

Jee'smom~

That is so wonderful that you're teaching your kids in class the *whole truth* about their bodies, both male and female!! I was just realizing the other day that we didn't learn ANYTHING about intact penises in health class back in school, and how absurd that is!! Plus, I've heard of women (young ones) in college anthropology classes who didn't know their breasts could produce milk! They thought they were only sexual objects. I think it was a university in the south, if that matters. And I PM'd you about the religious stuff! Anyway, we could use more teachers like you out there!

lizzie

[Teresa]

Keri, I just read & 'reviewed' (on another thread) a very good book you might want to check out.

The What's Happening To My Body Book For Boys (3d edition) by Lynda Madaras.

It provides excellent info. on the anatomy & function of the foreskin in a way that will be informative and educational but does not inflict much emotional damage on any male students who are not whole & intact.

Teresa

[MelissaEvans]

Yeah! I can only talk to one person at a time... 70 converts! That's so great!!

As for the Christian and circ issue, the links will explain it very well... but I just wanted to point out that if it were a religous rite, then it would be done by religous personnel in a religous setting - not by a doctor in a hospital. After all, baptisms aren't done by dentists in the library. =)

[Gitti]

Religion

Christians
http://www.acts15.org
http://www.stopcirc.com/christian.html
http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/lewis1

Latter Day Saints
http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/LDS/

Jewish
http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/
http://www.kahal.org/
http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.com/

Jews-Ron Goldman
http://circumcision.org/qcjp.htm

[Stardust27]

Originally posted by bjbjd

Jews-Ron Goldman
http://circumcision.org/qcjp.htm

Ron Goldman has a new and more comprehensive site now:
http://jewishcircumcision.org/

Stardust

[Gitti]

Originally posted by Stardust27
Ron Goldman has a new and more comprehensive site now:
http://jewishcircumcision.org/

Stardust

That is a great site, with lots of links and bumper stickers to order. Think I'll get one right now.

[Stardust27]

Originally posted by bjbjd
That is a great site, with lots of links and bumper stickers to order. Think I'll get one right now.

Bumper stickers at jewishcircumcision.org? Are you sure you don't confuse it with circumstitions.com? Still a great site, of course.

Sorry for being off-topic.

Stardust

[Frankly Speaking]

Although Ron Goldman is Jewish, he is a very outspoken and public advocate of intactness. That he would offer bumperstickers doesn't surprise me at all.




Frank

[TigerTail]

can't find the bumper stickers anywhere on his site.
suse