I could really use your advice on how to handle this sleep challenge. . .by tonight. :-)

[lellian]

DD is a challenged sleeper. I won't post about it again because I'm a broken record. What I would LOVE some help understanding is why she treats her bedtime as a power nap, and ends up staying up another 3 hours???

Bedtime is between 7-8. I think she knows the routine of bathtime then massage then bedtime with the white noise and mama nursing her. Last night, for example, we started nursing at 7:50 and by 7:53 she was OUT! Done, see you later, asleep! I layed with her until 8:10, then crept out of bed (we co-sleep) so I could eat dinner with DH. 10 minutes later, she's up. Not just needing to nurse again and fall back to sleep, but UP, ready to take on the world, wide awake, no amount of trying gets her back to sleep. This happens at least 5x a week. Why, oh why, is her bedtime turning into a power nap? Anyone else have this problem? WWYD to get her to stay asleep? Some nights, we try for 90 mins to get her to sleep, last night, I tried for 20, and threw in the towel.

The biggest issue I can see is that when she goes to bed at 11 pm, she's sleeping until 10 in the morning. Mind you, she's up nursing on demand all night, but she's not ready to fully wake up until 10. Nap time, if I'm so lucky is around 1-130, up around 3, and bedtime between 7-8. She's probably just not ready for nighttime sleep, is she, if she sleeps until 10?

Do I keep her up ALL DAY TODAY, and put her to bed at 7? WWYD?!?!?

TIA. This is my first, she's 7 months, has never, ever been a good sleeper.

[rightkindofme]

In my not terribly educated opinion, it could just be that you are trying to get her on the sleep schedule we, as a culture, have decided babies 'should' have instead of the schedule her body wants. I'm a stay at home mom, so I have a ton of privilege in the area of being flexible. I didn't worry whatsoever about what 'time' my kiddo slept for the first year. She slept when she was tired. Sometimes it was during the time spans that were convenient for me and she stayed in bed (rarely--if she couldn't smell me nearby she woke up after like 15 minutes) but mostly I just kept her in a carrier and went about my life and she slept when she slept.

So yeah. I had no preconceived notions about how a baby 'should' sleep so I just went with it and the whole process was very non-stressful. I intend to follow that route again this time. My husband says that the key to happiness is low expectations and I think that's why we considered our first child so 'easy'. Whatever she did was fine.

[texmati]

My son does that sometimes as well. We are definitely not hung up on routines, but we both work, so having one of us stay up 'till 12 at night is just brutal. I agree with pp's, sometimes it just happens, so expect it. That being said, I've noticed this happens to DS when his routine has been off from the weekend (thanks a ot grandma!).

What do her naps look like? We try to keep DS from having late naps (post 5) if he does have a late nap, we push back bed time to 9 oclock, otherwise he's not tired enough for the first sleep. We also look at his cues rather than the clock to put him to bed. Otherwise it's just frustrating to everyone.

[Strong Mama]

Well heres what I would do, personally. I would wake her up at around 8am, instead of letting her sleep til 10. So shes a bear, o well. She can then take a nap at around 11 30, after lunch, instead of 1 ish. So she should wake up at around 1 ish and be up until bedtime, hopefully this will reset her cycle some. Just a suggestion.

[sunnygir1]

At that age it can be hard to keep them up or wake them up early from naps, but you might want to try that for tonight. Try for an early nap and if that fails a short nap. I can't see a 7 month old with no nap...my 11 mo still takes 2 or sometimes 3.

The options I see are these:

--Resign yourself to the later bedtime and stop putting her to bed at 7. You could switch to getting up early to have some time for yourself.

--Do as a pp said and wake her up in the morning to try to get her to switch to an earlier schedule. Might suck for the first few days or week.

[lellian]

Hey mamas,

Thanks for your varied opinions. We've never had DD on a schedule, but for the first time ever in her wee life she has started taking a nap sometime during the day. Before that, she just NEVER slept. NEVER. No amount of wearing, driving, strolling, singing, bouncing, you name it has worked so I was thrilled, elated, geeked out of my mind when she started taking a nap about 7 days ago. . .probably because she's been rolling around the house so much? Any way, at "bedtime" I NEED her to sleep so I can recharge for both our sakes. I always watch for her signs: rubbing her eyes, yawning, cranky, no interest in toys, reading, etc.

I'm going to contemplate a schedule, or as close to one as we can manage, and see how tonight goes. I do think that pushing her bedtime to maybe 9 tonight, then a little earlier each night to get closer to 730-8 would work IF I'm getting her up at 8 in the morning.

Thanks again mamas. I'm always open to suggestions and opinions.

[LadyCatherine185]

I would start waking her up earlier in the morning, between 7-8. If you want her to go to bed earlier at night, she needs to get up earlier in the morning, and take her nap earlier in the day.

FWIW, my DS doesn't go to bed until 9-10 and still wakes up at 6 AM.

Try reading Sleepless in America. It has a lot of great advice for daytime structure to help maximize nighttime sleep and having a good routine to your day.

[Tattooed Hand]

Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185

FWIW, my DS doesn't go to bed until 9-10 and still wakes up at 6 AM.

This is my DD too! Nothing I have ever been able to do can get that bedtime earlier. One thing I have noticed is that she tends to stay down if I stay with her until she settles into deep sleep. This takes anywhere from 30-45 minutes. If I get up before that, she wakes up. Maybe you are getting up too soon, before she is deeply asleep? Staying with her a bit longer and trying to wake her up a bit sooner might help.

BUT - if she's never take a daytime nap before a week ago, maybe her sleep is sorting itself out and you shouldn't wake her up/mess with it, especially if she's never been much of a sleeper.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by Strong Mama

Well heres what I would do, personally. I would wake her up at around 8am, instead of letting her sleep til 10. So shes a bear, o well. She can then take a nap at around 11 30, after lunch, instead of 1 ish. So she should wake up at around 1 ish and be up until bedtime, hopefully this will reset her cycle some. Just a suggestion.

I agree that IF you decide to change her sleep schedule, an alarm clock is pretty much your only option. I had to change my family's sleep schedule for reasons beyond our control and I could only manage it by waking us all early. It took about a month. This also worked for jet lag.

YOu could also accept her schedule and try to change it later. That's okay. At 7 mo. there's not many places she needs to be at 10 a.m., are there?

Plus, bonus for you, you get time to yourself in the *mornings*.

Sigh. That must be heavenly.

[lellian]

I wish I had time to myself in the morning! If I move, scratch my nose, THINK about getting out of bed she wakes up. Heaven forbid, I actually try to get up without her! Most of the time I am SO exhausted from her nighttime routine of waking up 8+ times a night, that I'm still in bed with her at 10 am. I wake up so tired I feel nauseous sometimes, most of the time. Like I said, she's sleep challenged.

Tonight we went to bed at 7:05. She only had an hour nap from 1215-115 today. She was begging to get to sleep with all her sleep signals. She fell asleep at 7:10, and I went to move at 7:55. Bingo, she woke up, and now she's on the ground, rolling all around, playing, completely awake. She'll get tired again around 11, I'm guessing from experience.

Tomorrow, DH is instructed to wake her up between 7-8, and let her take her first nap 90 minutes after being up.

She is happy as the day is long with this little sleep, but I can't deal as well. I want to be the best mommy possible, and I need more rest to do that. I've never been a night owl, so her schedule is killing me after 7 months.

[LadyCatherine185]

Originally Posted by lellian

I wish I had time to myself in the morning! If I move, scratch my nose, THINK about getting out of bed she wakes up. Heaven forbid, I actually try to get up without her! Most of the time I am SO exhausted from her nighttime routine of waking up 8+ times a night, that I'm still in bed with her at 10 am. I wake up so tired I feel nauseous sometimes, most of the time. Like I said, she's sleep challenged.

Tonight we went to bed at 7:05. She only had an hour nap from 1215-115 today. She was begging to get to sleep with all her sleep signals. She fell asleep at 7:10, and I went to move at 7:55. Bingo, she woke up, and now she's on the ground, rolling all around, playing, completely awake. She'll get tired again around 11, I'm guessing from experience.

Tomorrow, DH is instructed to wake her up between 7-8, and let her take her first nap 90 minutes after being up.

She is happy as the day is long with this little sleep, but I can't deal as well. I want to be the best mommy possible, and I need more rest to do that. I've never been a night owl, so her schedule is killing me after 7 months.

She probably is tired by 7 or so, but not tired for bedtime sleep, tired for a nap. I think waking her up earlier in the morning and "resetting" her body clock will be the key to getting her to go to bed earlier at night. I don't think it will help her sleep longer stretches or help her sleep better, but at least she will be in bed earlier at night so hopefully you get some alone time. My DS was a horrible sleeper too, very light sleeper and I couldn't move the entire time we were in bed. Could your DH get her up earlier and take her out on the weekends and let you sleep in? My DH has been doing this since DS was about 7 months old and let me sleep in. They have a blast, and it is such a good bonding time for them.

[alegna]

My dd had hours like that as an infant and toddler. She wouldn't re-set either.



-Angela

[echoecho1528]

I'm going to second a lot of what LadyCatherine has to say Seems like your DD needs some help resetting her clock and Sleepless in America is a great book that can help you understand how you can go about it.
I think at 7 months, 2 naps is more of the norm. She is probably treating her "bed-time" at 7-8pm like a nap. Now that she seems as though she is becoming a napper, you might want to capitalize on that and steer her into a solid routine that includes 2 loosely scheduled naps.

This is what I would try:
Many babies like a 2-3-4 routine (1st nap 2 hours after morning wake up, 2nd nap 3 hours after waking up, then bedtime 4 hours after waking from the second nap.) It might look like this:
730 wake up
10-1130 nap
230-4 nap
8pm bedtime

BINGO! I know, I know... wouldn't it be nice to just snap your fingers and make this happen?? I'm not saying it's easy, but I DO think that this is might (in general) work better for a baby's natural clock than the timing that you have going on.

But, also, I want to remind you to be aware that your DD is entering an age that can be very challenging for sleep. When it comes to sleep in our house, the only thing consistent about sleep, is change! When it's bad, it will always get better. When it's good... don't hold your breath!

[lellian]

Thank you for your replies and much needed advice. The only consistent thing about DD's sleep is that if she's up at 7 am, she's usually down for the night around 7. Up at 9:30 am this morning, down tonight at 9 pm. Naps are hit and miss, although I like the idea of 2, 3, 4. That makes sense. . .but we'll see.

Her latest and greatest trick has been waking up around 2:30/3 am and staying awake for about 90 minutes. Those nights are painful. Very, very painful.

[snowangel182]

Wish i could help - but we are in the same situation! Just hoping someone will reply!

[Quinalla]

Even if you wait for her to be in a deep sleep does she still wake up? I would try putting her down sleepy but awake, but she may not go to sleep on her own. I nurse DD to sleep most of the time, sometime she stops nursing and falls asleep on her own on my lap, and then transfer her to the crib after letting her get more deeply asleep. She's a lot better about being transferred now, but yeah, when she was younger it was so hard, I had to put her down so slowly and gently extract my hands/arms from under her and she still woke up often.

[Abraisme]

From what I've experienced there is a very short window (a couple of months) where a baby is mobile enough to fall off a bed, yet not sensible enough to stay on it. My DD stopped falling off (or nearly falling off) the bed around 10-11mo. By 11mo she was able to get herself off of the bed safely. Perhaps you could put her crib mattress on the floor somewhere for the next couple of months and then go back to co-sleeping with her like normal. That way you could nurse her down on the floor without disturbing her.

[Knitting Mama]

You could always sidecar her crib, and put something on the open side when she is in there when you're not.

[sunnygir1]

My ds is 11 months now, and he was getting into something like the 2-3-4 pattern around 8 months, but now I find if I can push it to 3 hours after he wakes up it is a lot easier to get him to sleep. I've started waiting as long as I can stand it, even though he's fussy, and he goes down so much more easily. He often wants to nap around 5pm, and I'm just trying to skip that nap whenever possible in favor of an earlier bedtime.

Good luck!

P.S. I know it's hard, but my dd was a horrible sleeper and now at 3.5 we've had at least a year of really good sleeping from her...yay!

[colsxjack]

Our DD did a very loose 2-3-4 schedule at that age too.

Maybe try making sure she gets out in the sunshine first thing in the morning. This will help to set her clock for daytime. We would take our DD out on the back porch soon after waking in the morning. Now at 13 months we hit the park for a couple of hours right after breakfast. But at that age we just took her outside for 10-15 minutes first thing.
In the evening, keep the lights and stimulation lower in the house. Try not to watch TV, use lamps instead of overhead lights, etc.

This may help to re-set your DD internal clock.