How do I know what to believe? - Page 2

[sattygirl99]

My husband wasn't 100% on board at first either... He was supportive but still 'eh...' because we didn't have a choice (I'm a VBA2C with a 2nd C that happened during transition and NEVER should have happened). Now he defends our homebirth to people... They do come along...

Mine hasn't really read anything (I don't think... I forward him the articles but who knows if he reads them) but we did sit down and watch The Business of Being Born, Orgasmic Birth and Pregnant in America (wait until you know he's on board before this one, it does show a post birth transfer that may deteer a non-supportive spouse). He's intently watched these and can actually quote from them when he's coming back at someone knocking homebirthing. This coming from a husband who told me 'no way in hell' when I brought up HBing with our second.

In terms of what to believe... you have to make that choice for yourself. A hospital that is 'mostly' supportive of natural births, my first question would be what is the c-section rate for that hospital? and what does 'mostly' mean? Either you're natural birth supportive or you aren't. What are the policies that have that will affect your birth? You can absolutely have a natural birth in a hospital but have a doula, do a GOOD childbirth prep course meant for natural birthing, plan to labor at home as long as possible and choose a provider who will support you 100%. Just because it's a MW, doesn't mean they're going to be 100% supportive... My birth with my second was with a MW and she was so very clearly not supportive of my VBAC... It was HER that called a c-section when I transitioned very quickly. It was her that told me my labor was too slow (hey, 15 hours from first ctrx to transition and +1 station was dang good for me since my first was induced at 37 weeks!). So, be sure to choose wisely no matter which route you go.

Good luck! Remember that a good birth starts with comfort and trust. If you aren't comfortable at home, then it's not for you. If you feel safer in a hospital, then follow your gut. Either way YOU are taking responsibility for the outcome of your birth. It's easy to feel as if in a hospital, if something goes 'wrong' it's not your fault but the reality is that we are responsible for the outcome of our birth. The outcome of our birth, not the place, comes from the choices we make during our birthing time.

Good luck with your choice!!

[allisonrose]

My son was a hospital birth at a hospital that we felt would be accomodating to a natural birth and we saw CNMs rather than an OB for prenatal care. I tested GBS+ so I went for the (quite uncomfortable) IV to protect my infant from unnecessary poking and prodding. I was pushed into pit which required continous monitoring and eventually went for the epi to deal with the pit contractions. I ended up with a third degree tear which might have been due in large part to pushing on my back and being urged to push hard, hard, hard. We were also unlucky that my water broke on a weekend and we ended up with the on-call CNM - a woman we had never met. Not the experience we'd been hoping for.

Now pregnant with my second, I am planning a homebirth. My hubby is also hesitant but he knows this is important to me. I did not enjoy the hospital experience and feel I was lucky to have avoided a c-section. I feel like I will be running the same chance of major surgery (~30%) if I went to the hospital again and might not be lucky a second time. (Disclaimer - there are certainly necessary c-sections but I suspect that there are also quite a few unnecessary ones.)

[carriebft]

I am with some others here on MDC in that I would only have a CNM at my homebirth. I know that the training and safety numbers behind CNMs, coupled with her individual statistics and references (including being able to talk to her back up OB) really helped my husband come around to the idea. This sounds like it could be an option for you.

And if you find a CNM that you love that does home and hopsital, yet you are unable to convince your husband and want a hospital birth, you would still be able to use the CNM for your care and birth

[Virginia884]

Originally Posted by homemademom

I'm guessing that your dh wouldn't be interested in doing the research and reading you are doing, but would he watch a video? The Business of Being Born makes great arguments and shows that there is a place for both home and hospital birth, but that the hospital is way overused.

My DH was not sold on HB, but I am, so that's what we are doing. I first saw TBOBB several years ago and it totally sparked my interest in natural birth. DH has always refused to watch it, but our midwife recommended it to him and so we watched it last weekend. He was stunned! The first birth snuck right up on him and he said "But, she wasn't screaming?" because the only birth he knew was movies (Knocked up) and Baby Story. Seeing natural birth was a total eye opener for him and I think it has helped him see why I want a HB.

Also, talking to our midwife about all the "what ifs" helped him to see that she knows what she's doing and has experience in emergency situations.

[msmiranda]

Originally Posted by Gena 22

I choose a HB because the large, fancy, well staffed and well funded hospitals near me are very unfriendly to natural birth. DH and I went on 2 hospital tours. My favorite quote was from one, where I asked about walking around during labor. I was told I would have to "qualify to be ambulatory" and even then, only for 40 minutes out of every hour. Qualify to be ambulatory!!!

I stayed home because for me, I KNEW HB was safer. No one was going to induce me, pit me, guilt and pressure me into an epidural, break my water, c/s me for FTP. Yes, I could have gone to the hospital and fought tooth and nail every moment of my birth, and get for some of what I wanted. Get some of the healthy choices I demanded. But even then, I also knew my OB was not as experienced as my MW in natural births. How many natural births does your OB really see? And the L&D nurses too. How many of the hospital births are really med-free? Which is not to say you have to go natural. But you do want to know what your chance of being respected and well cared for if you do.

From my research, it's pretty clear that in an ideal birth, both mother and baby do better with as few interventions as possible. Going without pain medication and labor augmentation are easy defend-able choices. And what's gaining attention are the consequences of induction. I stayed home to avoid these. I had to, and in my area, I wouldn't consider a hospital birth unless there was a serious medical need.

This. I had my first in a hospital with midwives and my second at home, and I think the single most influential thing in retrospect that caused me to look outside the hospital is that when we were there, my midwives were nervous and anxious and totally different from how they were during my office visits (the practice did deliveries in a FSBC and at the hospital). I got there at 5:30 and at 7 there was a shift change and they went out together to tell the on-call how great I was doing so that he wouldn't intervene, and fortunately I never saw him. That, and the fact that the hospital I would have been at with #2 has this whole mandatory 4-hr mother-baby separation thing, and I was like, no, sorry, not going to happen. The woman who gave the tour said to make sure I put a card in his isolette that specified he was to be given no formula (meaning that the default is that they give it). Nope. Didn't want to deal with that crap.

Too, I am a person who needs coaching during the pushing phase, and I didn't trust an OB or L&D nurses to provide physiologically sound support during pushing, including perineal support. They have little experience with normal birth -- I needed the skills a midwife had to offer.

On safety, it does depend on how the hospitals in your area are. Here, they are pretty medically minded and few women have normal births. I couldn't take the chance of getting railroaded in the hospital -- my baby's safety and the success of our breastfeeding relationship meant too much to me. If you know for absolute certain that the hospital is supportive of normal birth and won't separate you from your baby (if that is important to you) -- and that means being ambulatory, eating and drinking during labor, intermittent monitoring preferably with a doppler, choice of pushing positions, delayed cord clamping and immediate skin to skin contact if you want those things, and truly informed consent in the event there is a hiccup or a complication -- then by going to the hospital you *might* avoid a very very very tiny risk of a complication that needs immediate technological attention (if they paid enough attention to you to catch it early enough), and not incur the numerous risks that plague most hospital births.

But the idea that, as a general matter in the United States, hospital births are safer than low-risk home births with skilled midwives, is laughable.

[MegBoz]

First, congrats!

Second, before you go any further, I would tell your DH that he needs to get rid of his opinion. Toss it & start from scratch. It's unreasonable & unfair of him to make those statements based not on fact!!!!!!!! I'm going to venture a guess that it's only because he grew up in the USA that he feels that way! If he grew up in the Netherlands - where nearly one-third of all births are HB, he very likely wouldn't feel that way. Until he has some factual data on which to base his 'opinion' it's really wrong of him to be "adamantly opposed."

Honestly, I consider it immature. To dig your heels in on something & make a decision without actual knowledge of facts is irresponsible & immature.

Now, that is not to say that the VIEW that HB is not safe is an immature view - but being "adamantly opposed" to something you don't know the facts on is what is immature. So until he gets educated, I say he doesn't get a vote. Birth is a health care related issue & health care related things must be decided based on science & facts! You can chose baby names & nursery decor based on mere 'opinions' or whims, but, again, to make health care decisions without fact is immature. (I'm a fitness instructor & give the same rant about fitness. It drives me batty when people take fitness advice from any old grossly unqualified person. It's not like fashion, where mere opinion matters!)

OK, so moving on. YES, there ARE CASES where being in a hospital could save your baby's life. I'm not going to deny that fact, because it IS a fact. But even the most baby-friendly hospital has bacteria & germs, & humans who make mistakes. On top of people who are strangers to you, and annoying policies like needing a hep-lock and vaginal exams. (& the emotional discomfort of strangers can make birth longer & more painful, something that's difficult to "study" & put into research.) So - again, there ARE CASES where things go wrong in the hospital that absolutely wouldn't have at home.

Birth, like life, isn't 100% safe & there are no guarantees.

Perhaps you're ready to look into the local HB MWs? Many have said meeting with the MW has helped convince their DH. Also, the options really should weigh heavily in your decision anyway, because the experience of the MW has a great bearing on the safety of HB.

Additionally, the local birth climate, how the process of transferring would go, etc. all matter. For example, I know my HB MW knows the MWs at the hospital where I had DS - my transfer hospital - so she wouldn't have to dump me at the door in labor & leave me claiming I had no prenatal care in order to protect her from being arrested. She'd walk in, hand over files, make her role clear. Again, this should weigh in your decision because that continuity of care increases safety.

Seems that these are points others have made - as in - you can't look at experiences in The Netherlands & Germany if it's "apples to oranges" but if you DO have a good, qualified MW AND transferring would be smooth, then you WOULD have a similar experience! So you CAN make a rational comparison here.

Originally Posted by CI Mama

I have a somewhat philosophical response to your question. It has to do with the nature of "belief" and how we choose our path, which is the thing that you're trying to work through right now.

I think that decisions around something as important as how & where to give birth come from a deep place in each person. We bring together our intellect, culture, history, emotions, and some kind of gut instinct that all figure into the decision. Scientific research, statistics, and studies are important tools for our brains, but as you've found, it can be challenging to sort through all the information, filter out the bias, and come to a firm conclusion. And frankly, sometimes there is no firm conclusion. There are pros & cons to every choice, there are risks and benefits of every choice.

That's why I think other parts of ourselves (not just our brains/intellect) participate in the decision. What feels right to you?

OK, too funny, you are right here in all of this, but I suppose this shows how much of a rational, analytical, even cold & calculating person I am. (DH as well.) When I was first PG, we both had the knee-jerk reaction that, "OOH NOO! Of course HB is dangerous!" Back then, not only did I not know anyone who'd had an HB, I didn't even know anyone who had birthed without an epidural! Except one co-worker who did with her 2nd & that was ONLY because there was no time, and she was angry about that fact that she didn't get the epi!

So, NCB was totally foreign to me. I actually said to a fried, 100% seriously, "Of course I'll get an epidural! I've got nothing to prove."
I like sharing this fact sometimes because, although it's embarrassing now, it shows that I really, truly relate to the mainstream view of birth because that WAS my view!

Well, thankfully I got educated. I read "The Thinking Woman's Guide." I learned that most of what's done frequently is AWFUL & anti-evidenced based. I switched to midwifery care in one of the best NCB-hospitals in the area-- OUT of OB care at Johns Hopkins - one of the best hospitals IN THE NATION! (According to US News & World report).

Since it is such a prestigious hospital, I had felt fortunate to live near it & lucky to birth there. Then I got educated & now I would never birth there as a healthy woman. "Nothing by mouth" & cEFM are standard for all births. (These 2 things make me beyond furious & I think are the absolute pinnacle of "stupid, anti-evidence based practice.")

So I made decisions with my intellect & with science & reason. Actually, I grew to the point where I felt more uncomfortable & fearful of the hospital itself than I was of birth & the pain & risks - even though they really are truly a great hospital & everything on my birth plan was great with them.

I guess I, obviously, have trouble being empathetic or understanding to people who ignore facts in their decision making. I guess it also particularly angers me in the case of fathers since I think the woman's 'vote' should matter a lot more (not that dads should have no say - I don't agree with that) but they should defer to & be supportive of what the mama wants unless they have a very darn good reason for disagreeing. So, while a mama feeling comfortable emotionally matters in her choice, I feel like if a daddy is uncomfortable emotionally, he should work to just get over it. (again, without the presence of valid, science-based concerns.) , does that make me insensitive? Probably.

[yara1]

You going to have a midwife, right?

Does the husband realize that a midwife knows what to do in any particular case and bringing all nessecary assets as she comes to your house. (For example , I remember my midwife even brought gas balon, etc.)

The only thing that is impossible to do at home is a c-section.
But if its really needed - a woman can be transfered at proper time...

(I might not aware of some details ... but that's what it seems to me ...)