Probiotics for baby

[Casey44]

How do you make sure your little ones get their probiotics? DD is 8 months old and we haven't really gotten into the fermented foods yet (that is the most natural source of probiotics, right?). So I'm just wondering what would be second best? I can start giving her yogurt soon, so we'll do that, but what else? I almost bought a supplement today (I know that's not very natural but I just wanted her to have something in the meantime while I figure this out!) but the pharmacist said he wouldn't recommend it to be taken regularly... to only give it to her if she was gassy etc. He said it will interfere with the body's natural way of making probiotics. So now I'm confused... what do you all know about what kind/how many probiotics a baby needs and how do you make sure yours get them?

[JaneS]

Well the assaults of modern life greatly interfere with our "natural way" of making probiotics too! That is the major problem with how our gut flora has been changing in recent years!

Chlorine in water (can absorb thru skin through bathing even if not drinking)

Antibiotics, Heavy metals, Pesticides, etc.

If you are breastfeeding can be an excellent source of probiotics (and prebiotics in form of lactose). Raw Milk too.

I have seen Dom (of Dom's Kefir Site) recommend kefir for young babes.

Young children have different bacterial profiles than adults. My son had colic and food allergies. Food sources of probiotics didnt work to heal him, and in fact he reacted to the ferments. He needed bifidobacteria supplements because his natural probiotic flora wasn't built correctly to begin with.

[at-home]

I haven't looked into it, but I suspect that if you are breast feeding that would included optimal probiotics. However, if you are still concerned, Jarrow brand makes "Baby's Jarro-Dophilus" and it is formulated for infants (even newborns) and children. It can be found in the refrigerated area of health food supplements.

[mbravebird]

If you are looking into bottled probiotics, I would try and get one without FOS or inulin. The jury is out on whether that stuff is good or not, but it's a recent addition to bottled probiotics, and until the jury comes back on it, I'm suspicious. Some folks have reactions to it.

Unless your baby shows a specific need for bacteria-balancing, like JaneS described, I'd think the probiotic bacteria in your milk and in home ferments are actually optimal. Fermented foods protect and escort the beneficials to your gut more effectively than any supplement does. If you can make your own yogurt, you'll have a larger range of bacteria in that. Kefir is easier than yogurt and has lots more beneficial bacteria. It tastes a little different, and is less thick, but I imagine your baby would get used to it quickly at such a young age. You can do water kefir or dairy kefir. You can look at Cultures for Health for some grains. Once you get the grains, just throw them in a jar with some milk and you're off!! Couldn't be easier.

My baby just had to have a round of antibiotics (arrgg), and I wanted to be sure he got the bifidus infantis, which is not in fermented foods, so I bought a probiotic. I bought both Klaire and Pharmax (thanks for the coupon, JaneS!), and am giving him both. He has had no obvious GI upset during or since the antibiotics.

[Astral Mama]

Starting unnatural products like dietary supplements on a child too young to defend itself makes me sad. Shouldn't you just give it a diet of, you know, breastmilk, and food? In the past, children survived on literally nothing but breastmilk and actual foods, and through most of human history those foods probably didn't involve a lot of fermentation (since that takes long term storage, something not easily available to our hunter-gatherer ancestors.)

I don't know, call me some crazy idealistic hippie but it just seems like food is probably the best source of nutrition.

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by Astral Mama

In the past, children survived on literally nothing but breastmilk and actual foods, and through most of human history those foods probably didn't involve a lot of fermentation (since that takes long term storage, something not easily available to our hunter-gatherer ancestors.)

No, that's the point, fermentation was actually the preferred method of saving/storing food for our ancestors. Fermentation was rampant in the past! Cheese and kefir have been around for a looooooong time, beginning with the folks in the yurts who used to store their milk in an animal stomach, hang it by the door, and give it a shake every time they went in or out. Fermentation is a lot of how our gut evolved to get its good bacteria.

Kimchi is an ancient practice, made in the fall in huge vats when it was warm and the vegetables fermented, then having the winter slow the fermentation process.

I think fermentation throughout the ages is inspiring! And, barring special situations like those mentioned above, I agree that it should be enough.

[Astral Mama]

Originally Posted by mbravebird

No, that's the point, fermentation was actually the preferred method of saving/storing food for our ancestors.

Some forms of it, at some places and times, yes. There were large areas of the world where there wasn't much fermentation done (most of America, for instance, although I believe there was some sort of beer produced in a couple spots in the Amazon.)

Fermentation was rampant in the past! Cheese and kefir have been around for a looooooong time

Aged cheese has been consumed since prehistory in much of Eurasia but until modern times it wasn't heavily consumed elsewhere. Kefir, similarly, wasn't really consumed over that large an area. And neither of those things has been around for most of our evolutionary history -- only the last ten thousand years or so, at the oldest, when animal husbandry began (and much later than that for most of our ancestors.)

I tend to be skeptical of any dietary practice introduced with agriculture, since the archaeological record shows that hunter-gatherers largely were healthier than agriculturalists, and we already know that other changes to our diet created by agriculture are, to some extent, harmful -- specifically, the consumption of large amounts of grain.

Fermentation is a lot of how our gut evolved to get its good bacteria.

Probably not. Not to say that fermented food isn't helpful to our gut ecosystem but that has existed for much longer than people have had the tools to ferment food.

[Purple Sage]

There's a blog called Cooling Inflammation that actually talks a lot about healthy gut flora and how to get it. It's written by a man who has a PhD in molecular and cellular biology and has done extensive research in this area.

He says that the way to get the good bacteria to colonize our guts is to, first of all, breast feed exclusively for at least six months. Then eat a large variety of raw, minimally washed or unwashed vegetables. He says we get our bacteria from these unwashed foods. Also, it is important to include certain types of fiber - pectin and something else I can't remember right now. It is these fibers which the bacteria eat and allows them to multiply to sufficiently colonize the gut.

Probiotics like yogurt and fermented foods (and pills/powders/etc.) do not make it down to the lower intestine, so they are pretty much useless except for colonizing the upper intestines, but this is not how we have evolved to have healthy gut flora.

The other thing he stresses is that our modern diet of relatively few different foods and dominated by fiber-less carbohydrates creates an imbalance of gut flora. So the message is clear: Eat a variety of unwashed raw vegetables and don't eat so many simple refined carbohydrates. And avoid the use of antibiotics, of course.

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by Astral Mama

Some forms of it, at some places and times, yes. There were large areas of the world where there wasn't much fermentation done (most of America, for instance, although I believe there was some sort of beer produced in a couple spots in the Amazon.)



Aged cheese has been consumed since prehistory in much of Eurasia but until modern times it wasn't heavily consumed elsewhere. Kefir, similarly, wasn't really consumed over that large an area. And neither of those things has been around for most of our evolutionary history -- only the last ten thousand years or so, at the oldest, when animal husbandry began (and much later than that for most of our ancestors.)

I tend to be skeptical of any dietary practice introduced with agriculture, since the archaeological record shows that hunter-gatherers largely were healthier than agriculturalists, and we already know that other changes to our diet created by agriculture are, to some extent, harmful -- specifically, the consumption of large amounts of grain.



Probably not. Not to say that fermented food isn't helpful to our gut ecosystem but that has existed for much longer than people have had the tools to ferment food.

Native Americans ate lots and lots of fermented foods. So did South Americans. And the foods I singled out in my original post were just examples -- every culture has examples of widely used fermented foods. It doesn't have to be kefir. Fermented foods did not come with the onset of agriculture -- see again all the fermented foods Native Americans ate, or the Masai in Africa, off the top of my head.

And there have been studies about the elements of fermented foods that act protectively of the beneficial bacteria and usher them to the gut much more effectively than enteric-coated pills.

But aside from this back-and-forth, which I confess I don't have the heart to really engage in, I guess it's just confusing to me to hear an argument against fermented foods. I mean, that's fine with me if you don't find them useful or appropriate in your own life, but to make an argument against them in general for someone else seems to be going a little far. I mean, what if my genetic heritage is Eurasian? Would you then not argue against me eating aged cheese? It seems like everyone needs to figure out what works with their own body, and to argue that fermented foods shouldn't be a part of someone's puzzle seems to be limiting a very legitimate resource.

[Astral Mama]

Originally Posted by mbravebird

But aside from this back-and-forth, which I confess I don't have the heart to really engage in, I guess it's just confusing to me to hear an argument against fermented foods.

I'm not making a general argument against them. I'm arguing that I don't think they are significant contributors to a healthy gut ecosystem. I eat plenty of various kinds of fermented foods (as well as other kinds of preserved foods.) I have nothing against it in general.