relatives pushing CIO *support needed please* - Page 2

[transylvania_mom]

Originally Posted by P.J.

"Well that's what you get for not using CIO".!

you can say: I'm not taking the easy way out

[P.J.]

Thanks everyone, you ladies are awesome!
I had already thought how great it is I can come here when sleep issues arise, knowing it's a safe place where no one will suggest CIO. Yay! I also can discuss it (and anything) with my mom, as she's totally on board with the AP / no-CIO / babywearing / no-circ / no vax, etc etc etc.....

And yes, it's so true that just about everything changes when we become parents, doesn't it!? Pass that bean dip over here...

[rockdoctor]

You know everyone has different ways to parent. To assume one way is better than another completely ignores each baby's personality, temperment, medical issues and age. It also ignores the family dynamic and issues there in. So what works for one family my not be what is best for another. I have friends who use CIO, I don't. But I don't judge them for it, I just assume that they are doing what they feel they need to to raise a happy child (whether it is done for the "good" of the child or whatever. I rarely meet parents who are trying to harm there children. My advice to you is to listen if it comes up, don't get emotional about it or feel that you are judged, assume they are just trying to help and then make your own choices. In raising children, things are perpetually changing and adjustments will have to be made as time goes on. Make these adjustments as you feel fit.

[mumkimum]

Yeah, dd1 had major sleep issues, and I really just avoided talking about it with anyone who was not supportive or I though wouldn't be (um, including dh at times there too ). Sleep issues are just something that's often better avoided cause if you're having them you're probably going to be cranky about it and you're likely to already be doing anything you can think of to try and deal with it that fits how you believe in treating your kids.

Being family, and since they have a little one too and will probably bring stuff up here and there as small talk, I'd turn it into a "oh gee dad, if you're meaning to ask if I'd like you to pick me up a fancy coffee drink I'd love it! Thanks!" joke, or something .

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by mumkimum

Yeah, dd1 had major sleep issues, and I really just avoided talking about it with anyone who was not supportive or I though wouldn't be (um, including dh at times there too ). Sleep issues are just something that's often better avoided cause if you're having them you're probably going to be cranky about it and you're likely to already be doing anything you can think of to try and deal with it that fits how you believe in treating your kids.

Being family, and since they have a little one too and will probably bring stuff up here and there as small talk, I'd turn it into a "oh gee dad, if you're meaning to ask if I'd like you to pick me up a fancy coffee drink I'd love it! Thanks!" joke, or something .

Although I might pull a "maybe you should hold my baby so *i* can go to bed and cry for a while..."

[1blueheron]

If lots of people told you that you had to cut off your baby's ear (for their own good!), and you finally convinced yourself that you had to do it, despite every instinct telling you not to, and the baby is shrieking and now it can never be undone....

and then along comes somebody who says you never needed to do it in the first place. It's too much cognitive dissonance for a lot of people, they just can't accept what it might mean about them as a parent that they may have caused their child unnecessary pain. I think this is also what leads some people to exaggerate their success w/CIO.

So, with all that in mind, if I'm talking to somebody who's already CIO'd I often just use the "every baby is different" line and pass the bean dip. Of course, we are lucky in that our LO is a great sleeper (at least at night, if not for naps).

[jennybear]

Originally Posted by ShwarmaQueen

I would state that I consider CIO child abuse, as by definition neglect of a babies basic needs, and that it's out of question. It makes me seriously ill to think about babies who cry until they're too tired to continue, just laying in a baby bed, so lonely...

I don't think telling them that they're abusing their kids is likely to result in a good discussion.

OP: I'd just change the subject and pick other people to vent to about sleep issues. It sounds like they're coming from a place of trying to be helpful, so let them know you appreciate the concern but have found what works best for you guys.

[JudiAU]

I don't begrudge them the comments once or twice. It is what they know. But at. The 1000th time you have my mil and the swearing begins. Luckily she didn't bother this time.

[tzs]

i absolutely believe that sleep is super duper important and that for me not working on getting the best possible sleep from your kiddo is in the same "don't" category of CIO.

that said though. #1 your babe is really young and their sleep is all over the place. sounds like even your dad recognizes that CIO is not for tiny babies

but also, there are so many other ways you can work on sleep other than CIO. over here i had a terrible sleep-fighter and i really worked on getting naps at the right time, routine, and scheduling worked for us. we've been doing very regular naps and sleeping through the night or big chunks of night from 4 months or so and now i consider dd to be a great sleeper. i would have never thought i would be saying that at 8 weeks or 10 weeks when naps seemed non-existant. that's what worked for us and i'm sure there are other things that worked better or worse for others. incidently, it was dr. w's book which totally advocates CIO (i didn;t even read that far to know, though) that solved our sleep issues for us because it laid out optimal nap and sleep schedules. so i guess you can learn a little bit from everybody, huh.

[Plummeting]

People who insist that babies who don't CIO become children who never sleep just don't actually talk to people who don't use CIO. My 6-year-old is in her own bed, putting herself to sleep right now. My husband wakes up at night more often than she does. My March baby has been sleeping through the night (without CIO) since she was 2 weeks old. Getting her down was a real struggle for the first few months, but as of the last couple weeks (when I finally figured out what she needed) she's been falling asleep within a few minutes of coming to bed. I nurse her, lay down next to her, then she fusses some and falls asleep (she doesn't like to nurse to sleep at night). So all babies are different, some fall asleep easier than others, and some stay asleep easier than others. CIO is not a long term solution to baby sleep problems. In fact, I know several families who used CIO who have had to resort to crib tents and baby gates to keep their children contained, once they get big enough to get out of the crib. Clearly their children did not develop that ability to comfort themselves to sleep and stay asleep that they were supposed to. They were just trapped, and as soon as they were big enough to do something about that, they did.

[Plummeting]

People who insist that babies who don't CIO become children who never sleep just don't actually talk to people who don't use CIO. My 6-year-old is in her own bed, putting herself to sleep right now. My husband wakes up at night more often than she does. My March baby has been sleeping through the night (without CIO) since she was 2 weeks old. Getting her down was a real struggle for the first few months, but as of the last couple weeks (when I finally figured out what she needed) she's been falling asleep within a few minutes of coming to bed. I nurse her, lay down next to her, then she fusses some and falls asleep (she doesn't like to nurse to sleep at night). So all babies are different, some fall asleep easier than others, and some stay asleep easier than others. CIO is not a long term solution to baby sleep problems. In fact, I know several families who used CIO who have had to resort to crib tents and baby gates to keep their children contained, once they get big enough to get out of the crib. Clearly their children did not develop that ability to comfort themselves to sleep and stay asleep that they were supposed to. They were just trapped, and as soon as they were big enough to do something about that, they did.

[Endellion]

If you would like i can take pictures of my husband hernia scar from when his parents let him CIO a little too long as a baby.

[PoppyMama]

I just wouldn't discuss sleep with them. Pretty boring subject to discuss IRL anyway...

You might be setting yourself up for stress by trying to put a baby that young down for a nap. If your little one is tired/overstimulated you can try putting them in a moby, or a sling and put a guaze over their head so that they are isolated but right next to you at the same time. Could save a lot of trauma for both of you.

[tammyswanson]

Some things you can't discuss with people. Its like if you criticize their decision to CIO with their kids, somehow they feel guilty for doing it to their own kids, yet they continue to justify it.

Then there are people who think that babies that young are trying to 'manipulate' the parents.

[KellyandBean]

I ALMOST came close to doing sleep training 2 weeks ago. We brought DD to the doctor because she was having such a hard time going down- especially for naps. I thought maybe she has an ear infection. The doc said do CIO and my husband was convinced we should do it- so of course the pressure was on. 2 against one. So for several days i himmed and hawed and just felt so confused and conflicted. She is up every hour or two at night and fights all of her naps and rarely goes down without major drama. Anyway after a lot of soul searching i decided it can't possibly be healthy even though i know it probably works. Besides even if it did help her learn to self soothe what kind of emotional damage has been done? And what if it didn't work? can you imagine if you let your baby CIO for a week on end (as they say it can take that long to work) and it STILL wasn't working? How guilty would you feel? Your baby needs to know that you are emotionally there for him/her even if all they really need is to go to sleep. Can you MAKE them go to sleep? no but you can be a support person for them while they get there. I am trying to find a happy middle-ground between CIO and all out coddling her to sleep. My DD will cry whether i rock her or not which is frustrating. And also if she falls asleep in my arms she will wake usually crying when i set her down (i can't hold her for all of her naps but i do occasionally) So often at this point (6 months) i am setting her down in her crib and holding her hand or just sitting next to her while she fusses. If i get her down before she is overtired sometimes she will actually just roll on her side and go without fussing now. If she gets really hysterical then i will pick her up calm her and then set her back down OR sometimes try rocking and see if that works. But she is six MONTHS old. Not 11 weeks. Heck when my baby was 11 weeks old she was in the throws of severe colic- we had to swaddle her, bounce her on an exercise ball with a vacuum cleaner running to get her to sleep! haha. Your baby is WAY to young for sleep training even according to Ferber (yes i have read all of the books even though i don't believe in it) and you can find ways to slowly help them learn to be a little more independent when it comes to sleeping without having to do CIO. But rest assured your baby is SUPER young still and needs to be held and loved whenever they are crying. Good for you for sticking to your guns and standing up for what you believe in.

[GreenTeaGinger61]

I am a firm believer in just not talking about this stuff with my in-laws. My MIL pretty much hates every parenting choice we make from not doing CIO to homeschooling. I finally told her "I understand that you don't like our parenting choices but these are OUR children not yours. We will parent them the way we feel is best. If we need or want advice from you we will ask you. I don't want to ever have this discussion again." Yeah she was ticked but honestly the arguments were not worth it. She was so passive aggressive and it wreck havoc in my family. Now that she's backed off we have a much better relationship.

Of course this means that I NEVER vent or complain to her (nor does my dh). I have other people whom I can do that with who understand. Good luck. It sounds you have a solid relationship and that alone should help.

[diana_of_the_dunes]

Originally Posted by rockdoctor

You know everyone has different ways to parent. To assume one way is better than another completely ignores each baby's personality, temperment, medical issues and age. ... My advice to you is to listen if it comes up, don't get emotional about it or feel that you are judged, assume they are just trying to help and then make your own choices. In raising children, things are perpetually changing and adjustments will have to be made as time goes on. Make these adjustments as you feel fit.

When we had DS, DH and I agreed not to do CIO. We've stuck by that, even in the face of family who were not-so-supportive. One of the surprise disagree-ers was my mom. It got to the point where I was dreading calling her, because I knew she would ask how the baby slept last night and how many times he got up (and the answer at that time was usually 5+ times). This was when DS was about 4 months old. I finally just said that he wakes up a lot, we KNOW he wakes up a lot, all the different approaches we tried weren't changing anything, and could she please stop asking because that was stressing me out more than the constant wake-ups!

During the first several months my mom was always giving advice, not because she thought I was doing it "wrong", but because she knew I was worn out, tired, and stressed, and she hated to see me miserable. I see that now that I have a little perspective... And she has since told me numerous times that I'm a good mom and she's proud of me.

That said, although one of our mantras was that DS will never cry by himself, I came to the realization when he was around 9 months old that he's one of those babies that simply wakes up crying 90% of the time. If I go to him immediately in the middle of the night, I end up waking him up even more, and we have a 30+ minute ordeal where he just gets progressively more upset. If I let him fuss for a minute or so, he resettles and goes back to sleep. Granted, that's fussing, NOT screaming until he pukes or gives up or anything even close to CIO. I can usually tell almost immediately by his cry if he needs me or not, and when he needs me, I obviously go to him. So I did have to sort of come off my, "My baby will NEVER cry by himself" position... And I think my MIL (who believes that crying is good for babies) thinks that I "saw the light" of CIO or something, even though what we do is far from CIO. Oh well. And even so, that's a 9 month old, not a not-even-3 month old. Huge difference.

My point is that you may need to be flexible in ways you never expected. Try to realize that people are just trying to be helpful. It's hard not to be on the defensive when it seems like all the advice contradicts your parenting approach, especially when what you're doing doesn't seem to be working. One of the things I said a lot was that I felt it was more important for my baby to know I was there for him than to sleep through the night (or nap by himself, or whatever) at his age. Also, when people would imply that I was "holding him too much", I would just say that I am enjoying it while I can, since I know in a few months he will rather be running around or playing (and you never hear a mother say that she wishes she'd held her child LESS...). With my SIL, I'd just listen to her advice, say "uh-huh" in all the right places, and completely ignore her. She has 5 kids and knows it all...

Hang in there, mama!

[P.J.]

This is the OP; thanks for the ongoing replies everyone.

I think it's inevitable that as parents we're going to encounter unsolicited advice that very much goes against the grain of our intuition and parenting ways, often from family and sometimes from friends too.

So my family's been gone for more than a week now and what happened I think was that my dad (after our little CIO discussion and me drawing the line) told his wife not to bring it up, because she never mentioned it at all. And, now I know that they are not the people to complain to when we have sleep issues. Otherwise yes, we have a good relationship and agree on many parenting points, and the ones we don't we just won't get into it about. Likewise with my coworker/acquaintance who insists babies are manipulating us from day one and should never be picked up when they cry.

[GoBecGo]

LOL OP, you should quote the Lewis Carroll's wise parenting words to the coworker...

Speak roughly to your little boy
And beat him when he sneezes
He only does it to annoy
Because he knows it teases

I speak severely to my boy
And beat him when he sneezes
For he can thoroughly enjoy
The pepper when he pleases!

This is something i face with family and friends alike (the CIO thing) and i tend to change the subject very mildly the first 3 times it's mentioned. The third time i say "oh, no! I'm far too soft, i don't have it in me to do that!" and then address the baby with "your mummy's little slave driver aren't you?" and a lot of smiles and kisses to get over the message that we are HAPPY as we are. Ultimately *I* know why i don't CIO, and if the rest of the world is more comfortable believing it's because i'm a big soft idiot making rods for her own back then so be it.