Apparently, my two year old is "offending" another parent - Page 4

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

bandgeek: there is some truth to that. as in they are only 2 or only 10, or only 5, or only 12. all of those ages have issue and stages of development. do we not help them learn what is usually socially expectable? of course not. BUT i think that more people actually need to learn what is normal for a child of any age. i think we have this idea that they should behave like little adults, and that isn't right. YES they are smart, but just because they can talk and think, doesn't mean they "get" everything. and social issue really are family based. what i find expectable may not be what someone else finds ok. and what they think is ok, someone else might think is not ok. we tend to have general rules of how people should treat each other, but expecting all 2 years to get it and that all families agree on the same thing is a different thing all together.
also i think we tend to get embarrassed by our children's behavior and instead of teaching we react in a way to sort of shame them. i think the OP handled the situation really well.
and honestly, i think there is a lot of over reaction. all though i think what the OP did was wonderful and that it all worked out really well, the mother of CC could have easily have taken her child out of the situation and talked to her privately OR maybe the mom was "worried what others were thinking" and maybe over does the discipline. who knows.
someone else mentioned waiting room scenario, where it doesn't bug you to have your kid running around, BUT it probably bugs others. i don't see that as a good example. i think the general consensus would be that kids get bored, waiting rooms are boring, they will probably get restless and some people it wouldn't bother to have their kid running to and from the fish tank to tell them about the fish, BUT being that it is a closed space, most people would have their kids sit next to the tank and talk to them about it, OR take them for a walk outside the waiting room.
i think really when something is bothering someone, they need to speak up. i don't see it as reprimanding to say something. that is another place people need to chill about stuff. someone saying something to your child or to you, NICELY isn't a smack in your face. it is just a way for them to let you know that something is bugging them. how on earth would you know if (A) bothered me, if 1. it didn't bug you at all, 2. it never bugged you when other children did it. so if (A) bothers me, i need to let you know. but if i am afraid to talk to your child or you for fear you will think i am being mean, then instead i stay quiet and stop hanging around with you. SILLY! one of our greatest gifts as humans is our ability to communicate. when did it become such a huge drama to do it? why are we so overly sensitive?

Excellent post!

[gbailey]

Posted in wrong thread.

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by phathui5

Where did she pick that up?

lol...as if it's a bad thing? Mis-placed...not bad.

[Hoopin' Mama]

What a nice update!

[hopefulfaith]

Originally Posted by MissMaegie'sMama

Can I say "awesome friend/mama" alert? You honored your friend's (and her daughter's) needs, and by doing so, you validated their feelings. I can imagine it was probably hard for your friend to bring up the issue to you in the first place, so I'll bet she's over the moon right now. In these situations, what frequently happens is that the parent of the teased child will stop returning emails/calls for playdate requests, rather than admit having hurt feelings. Your friend must really value your company. Keep her!

What it comes down to is that it really doesn't matter if the teasing/scolding wouldn't bother you (or your LO) if you were on the receiving end. You put aside your own inclinations and saw the situation from their point-of-view. The teasing bothered your friend and her daughter, but you took care of the situation respectfully. That's what makes a friend a GOOD friend... that's what you are.

Big yeah that.

[bandgeek]

I think it's one thing if you find your child's behavior appropriate and don't intend to correct them. But the OP stated not that she felt it was appropriate, but that she didn't think her daughter, at "only" 2 years could understand. I'm just pointing out that if my severely developmentally disabled and (possibly) mentally retarded daughter can learn, so can normal, healthy kids. You shouldn't underestimate their abilities JUST because of their age. Now, if you think what they are doing is fine and don't intend to correct them, then whatever. You might lose some friends. But not bothering with teaching children because they couldn't possibly understand is an insult to their intelligence. It's disrespectful.

[annettemarie]

I think that's why we're lucky to have a place like MDC, where we can bounce ideas off one another. Being a new mama can be hard, especially if we haven't had a whole lot of experience with little ones before (heck, I was working on a masters degree in early childhood education before I had my first, and I still find myself flummoxed as to what is developmentally appropriate behavior sometimes!). And then there's the whole "navigating the social world of other kids and other mamas" aspect of it all, that can be tough to get used to as well.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by bandgeek

I think it's one thing if you find your child's behavior appropriate and don't intend to correct them. But the OP stated not that she felt it was appropriate, but that she didn't think her daughter, at "only" 2 years could understand. I'm just pointing out that if my severely developmentally disabled and (possibly) mentally retarded daughter can learn, so can normal, healthy kids. You shouldn't underestimate their abilities JUST because of their age. Now, if you think what they are doing is fine and don't intend to correct them, then whatever. You might lose some friends. But not bothering with teaching children because they couldn't possibly understand is an insult to their intelligence. It's disrespectful.

I really take offense to what I've highlighted. I understand your point as you've mentioned previously in another post. The situation has been dealt with in a way that made me comfortable and my friend comfortable and happy. Because I don't believe my daughter will understand certain lessons is not an insult to her intelligence. However, continuing to comment on how I choose to teach my child is insulting to me. I know what my daughter will understand better than anyone else just as you know what's best for your child.

Lastly, my original post was really about one particular situation. I wasn't asking for nor do I want a critique on how I am teaching my child. I'm not sure why there's a need to continue to belabor what you've expressed already.

[bandgeek]

Originally Posted by gbailey

I really take offense to what I've highlighted. I understand your point as you've mentioned previously in another post. The situation has been dealt with in a way that made me comfortable and my friend comfortable and happy. Because I don't believe my daughter will understand certain lessons is not an insult to her intelligence. However, continuing to comment on how I choose to teach my child is insulting to me. I know what my daughter will understand better than anyone else just as you know what's best for your child.

Lastly, my original post was really about one particular situation. I wasn't asking for nor do I want a critique on how I am teaching my child. I'm not sure why there's a need to continue to belabor what you've expressed already.

Sorry, I should have quoted particular posts. Other posters seemed to be focused on issues separate from your OP, which were the "appropriate vs inappropriate" comments, which is why I pointed out that you didn't seem to be in that situation, based on your OP. I do not apologize for my last comment. I do not know how to say it in a way that is inoffensive to you. And maybe I am sensitive because of my DD's situation, where I see a TON of disrespect towards the mentally handicapped. I thought our story would make an impact on what people know about what children are able to learn, but I guess not. Enjoy your intelligent, fully capable daughter.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by bandgeek

Sorry, I should have quoted particular posts. Other posters seemed to be focused on issues separate from your OP, which were the "appropriate vs inappropriate" comments, which is why I pointed out that you didn't seem to be in that situation, based on your OP. I do not apologize for my last comment. I do not know how to say it in a way that is inoffensive to you. And maybe I am sensitive because of my DD's situation, where I see a TON of disrespect towards the mentally handicapped. I thought our story would make an impact on what people know about what children are able to learn, but I guess not. Enjoy your intelligent, fully capable daughter.

That's unfortunate and shame on those people. I understand your story and thank you for sharing. However, how you choose to deal wtih your wonderful DD doesn't pertain to how I choose to deal with mines. It's a case of different strokes for different folks.

[buttercup784ever]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

bandgeek: there is some truth to that. as in they are only 2 or only 10, or only 5, or only 12. all of those ages have issue and stages of development. do we not help them learn what is usually socially expectable? of course not. BUT i think that more people actually need to learn what is normal for a child of any age. i think we have this idea that they should behave like little adults, and that isn't right. YES they are smart, but just because they can talk and think, doesn't mean they "get" everything. and social issue really are family based. what i find expectable may not be what someone else finds ok. and what they think is ok, someone else might think is not ok. we tend to have general rules of how people should treat each other, but expecting all 2 years to get it and that all families agree on the same thing is a different thing all together.
also i think we tend to get embarrassed by our children's behavior and instead of teaching we react in a way to sort of shame them. i think the OP handled the situation really well.
and honestly, i think there is a lot of over reaction. all though i think what the OP did was wonderful and that it all worked out really well, the mother of CC could have easily have taken her child out of the situation and talked to her privately OR maybe the mom was "worried what others were thinking" and maybe over does the discipline. who knows.
someone else mentioned waiting room scenario, where it doesn't bug you to have your kid running around, BUT it probably bugs others. i don't see that as a good example. i think the general consensus would be that kids get bored, waiting rooms are boring, they will probably get restless and some people it wouldn't bother to have their kid running to and from the fish tank to tell them about the fish, BUT being that it is a closed space, most people would have their kids sit next to the tank and talk to them about it, OR take them for a walk outside the waiting room.
i think really when something is bothering someone, they need to speak up. i don't see it as reprimanding to say something. that is another place people need to chill about stuff. someone saying something to your child or to you, NICELY isn't a smack in your face. it is just a way for them to let you know that something is bugging them. how on earth would you know if (A) bothered me, if 1. it didn't bug you at all, 2. it never bugged you when other children did it. so if (A) bothers me, i need to let you know. but if i am afraid to talk to your child or you for fear you will think i am being mean, then instead i stay quiet and stop hanging around with you. SILLY! one of our greatest gifts as humans is our ability to communicate. when did it become such a huge drama to do it? why are we so overly sensitive?

I don't think anyone expects their children to act like little adults. I do think that as we discipline our kids that we have a goal in mind...and that goal should be how they will turn out as adults. So if we allow a two year old to grab a handful of animal crackers, and we never say anything, what we are really doing is allowing society to eventually teach that child that that behavior is unacceptable. As we know, there are some older kids that still behave like that, and as they get older people will be less likely to be nice about teaching them. Eventually someone's going to embarrass them about it. It seems like a silly example, I know. But honestly, if you've ever given out Halloween candy you know exactly what I'm talking about.

It seems from your response that you actually AGREE about the waiting room example as well. MOST people would not let their children run around the room, though some would. Most people would find a way to entertain their children rather than have them annoy others, and some people don't care. I think that has less to do with a "kids will be kids" child rearing philosophy and more to do with the parent being inattentive, and dare I say, lazy. Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't see very many kids running around in places like that where the parent is engaged with the child at all. Usually they are on the phone or reading a magazine. This would be another situation where the child is annoying people, but the parent should be the one intervening. The child is acting appropriately for their age, it's the parent that is dropping the ball.

[Katrinaquerida]

Glad your next encounter was better! Keep up the good work! Grown up relationships can be so difficult. lol!

[Lisa1970]

I am going to be nice here, I am guessing your daughter is your first child. But you should be correcting her. She will understand. That kind of talk will only get worse. I do not let my younger children taunt my older ones. My 6 yr old was told to stop doing it when he was 1 and he got it and stopped. Your child is smarter than you think. It is not too early to teach manners.

I am really trying to be nice, so please do not take offense, but you are undermining the other mom and allowing your 2 yr old to taunt the other little girl. Even my 11 month old understands the word no.

Originally Posted by gbailey

I am trying to put myself in this other moms position. I don't think this would bug me but maybe it would.

DD is a little over two. DD and I occasionally spend time with another mom and her daughter who is about 3.5. Whenever she acts up and her mom scolds her, DD looks at her and tells her, "Not nice, CC! Not nice!" or she looks at me and says, "mommy, cc not nice!" When cc whines DD imitates her and then laughs. She does this with everyone.

The last time DD told CC she wasn't nice, CC's mommy told me she really wishes I would correct DD whens he says that. She's "offended" my daughter is telling her daughter she's not nice and the imitation of the whining hurts CC's feelings.

I don't think my 2 year old is going to understand that CC's feelings are hurt. She imitates everyone and for some reason, whining imitations are her new thing. She does it on the subway too. I'm trying to put myself in CC's moms position. If a 10 year old were saying this to her I might be annoyed but not another toddler.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by Lisa1970

I am going to be nice here, I am guessing your daughter is your first child. But you should be correcting her. She will understand. That kind of talk will only get worse. I do not let my younger children taunt my older ones. My 6 yr old was told to stop doing it when he was 1 and he got it and stopped. Your child is smarter than you think. It is not too early to teach manners.

I am really trying to be nice, so please do not take offense, but you are undermining the other mom and allowing your 2 yr old to taunt the other little girl. Even my 11 month old understands the word no.

My daughter understands the word no. However, whether she does or doesn't wasn't the question or concern. I guess you haven't read the entire thread because the situation came up again and was handled differently.

And yes, I take offense to you comparing my nearly 2.5 year old to your 11 month old as I am sure you would take offense if I compared my toddler to your 6 or 8 year old. And no, I didn't find your post to be in the least bit nice.
I found it to be condescending and not helpful.

ETA: Nearly everyone who disagreed with how I handled my DD in relation to CC gave a helpful and kind spirited response to my post even when they felt I dealt with the situation badly. When a poster wants a person to see their point of view, I think it's important to write in a spirit of kindness not being judgmental and unkind. I'm never open to a persons way of thinking if the advice given to me is coated with condescension.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by bandgeek

But not bothering with teaching children because they couldn't possibly understand is an insult to their intelligence. It's disrespectful.

I think this often. I see people who excuse behavior with "he's only X," and I frequently think they're underestimating what their children can understand.

GBailey, I'm glad things worked out. If I were the other mom, I would've said something to your daughter myself along the lines of "this doesn't concern you" once it was clear that you weren't going to say anything. I know many here - and some of my friends IRL - think it's awful to say *anything* to a child when his/her parents are there, but I don't. So, all in all, I'm glad it worked out for you guys that she came to you and that you said something to your daughter.

[gbailey]

Frankly, I was reticent about posting an update because I've heard enough teach your daughter no comments but I learned an important lesson today and I think the positive comments directed towards this situation may have opened my eyes to seeing some things differenty. Today I took away something that is bigger than the incident with CC, her mom and my feelings about it.

Today I took DD to the end of summer reading program event at our local library. There was an older child there who looked about 13 angrily push another parent nearly knocking her down (I don't think it was her intention to knock the woman down but when she did she didn't bother to apologize and it was obvious she pushed her!). The parent asked the woman behind her if she was the mom. When the woman who was pushed confirmed she was, she told her, "your daughter nearly knocked me down and didn't apologize." THe mother rolled her eyes and said she was sorry. The parent who was pushed continued to gripe under the breath about it. After the event was over the mom of the girl who pushed told me she thought the mother was overreacting. She told mer her daughter is only ten although most people thinks she's older and she has her own personality. She kept repeating, "she's only ten and she was in a bad mood!" I gently told her, "I think the other parent was annoyed that your daughter didn't apologize to her once she brought what she did to your attention." Her response" She's only ten! She gets in bad moods just like we do and she really didn't want to be here anyway!"

A light bulb went off in my head when she kept repeating, "she's only ten!" When we came home I took off DD's clothes and told her to put the pants in the dirty clothes and I would put her shirt in. When DD needed to get by me she said,"scuse me mommy!" I realized that my two year old is capable of learning a lot more than I give her credit. She's been taught well enough to say excuse me instead of pushing even though the ten year old in the library wouldn't and she can put her dirty clothes in the hamper.

I don't want my daughters age to be the reason why she's rude to people even if I may not have an issue with certain behavior, she can be taught that what's okay in our household may not be okay in anothers and to be respectful of how another person may feel.

So...for that, I say thank you again to all of the people who gave me something to think about even if I didn't get it right away.

[texmati]

What a great thread and update! I'm still trying to figure out about discipline, and wonder what is age appropriate for my little one.

I've learned alot from this thread.

[DariusMom]

Love your second update!

I had a sort of run in with a mom at my DS' after school care. Her DS, 5, stole something of my DS' and broke it. She never said "sorry" and never demanded that he do so. When I expressed dismay, she said, "Yeah, well, he's only a five year old little boy."

I often doubt between having too high standards/expectations of ds' behavior (he's 7.5) and maybe not having high enough. It's a hard balance to find, but I certainly don't want to be like the mom in the library on the mom in DS' after school care!

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by DariusMom

Love your second update!

I had a sort of run in with a mom at my DS' after school care. Her DS, 5, stole something of my DS' and broke it. She never said "sorry" and never demanded that he do so. When I expressed dismay, she said, "Yeah, well, he's only a five year old little boy."

I often doubt between having too high standards/expectations of ds' behavior (he's 7.5) and maybe not having high enough. It's a hard balance to find, but I certainly don't want to be like the mom in the library on the mom in DS' after school care!

I'd be just as p.o'ed as you are. I don't want to be the mom in the library or the mom at your DS's after school care. The 5 year old can speak and could have said I'm sorry along with the mother reminding him that stealing isn't okay!

[Hoopin' Mama]

This is officially Off Topic, but thought I'd share this story:

Another 5yo called my ds a dumba$$ the other day. I immediately told the father, who waved it off with his hand and said "oh, ds." He said it in a tone like "oh, you little rascal".