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I witnessed a mom purposely slam into her child with a shopping cart. - Page 3

post #41 of 65
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With your dd, have you tried making her sit in the stroller/cart every time she walks in front of it?
No, she's not allowed to sit on top of her baby sister, LOL!

They do take turns (baby in carrier or on leash when not in stroller or cart). But whenever baby needs to be pushed... it is a nightmare. For me, that skin on the back of the heels is so sensitive and I can't bear the thought of hurting her there. It's one thing to let her run on grass and if she falls, oh well, lesson learned. Another thing to rip the skin off her tendon.

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Well, DS1 is almost 5yo. He is tall and solid. It's getting to the point that it is getting difficult for me to lift him
That's a good point, albeit a frightening prospective...
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
No, she's not allowed to sit on top of her baby sister, LOL!

They do take turns (baby in carrier or on leash when not in stroller or cart). But whenever baby needs to be pushed... it is a nightmare. For me, that skin on the back of the heels is so sensitive and I can't bear the thought of hurting her there. It's one thing to let her run on grass and if she falls, oh well, lesson learned. Another thing to rip the skin off her tendon.
Ooo, yeah, that's not going to work, then. And you probably can't have her push things with her baby sister in there either. : for it to be a phase and for it to end soon!
post #43 of 65
She is too short to push, and she pushes it into things. I also hope it ends soon!
post #44 of 65
I wouldn't have said anything, either. One, because the mother resolved the issue by calling in help (though obviously, this step should have happened much sooner in order to keep her dd safe), and two, because it is very possible that it was an accident.

I'm very familiar with those parenting moments in which you think it was okay to bring your child with you to a particular public place, and then once you get there, the combination of their boredom/extra energy/whatever and your need to shop/interact without distraction and focus on something other than the child makes for a disaster. Tensions run high and you're too distracted to parent effectively because you're trying to do two things at once. It's not ideal, and a lot of times the temptation to just keep trying since you're already there is very high.

Also, I've noticed that in these situations, with increased tension, trying not to cause a scene, trying to rein the child back in a bit, and still trying to get whatever it is you're there for, there is a higher tendency for physical accidents. I remember one instance in particular when I took my 6 (he was 5 at the time) year old to the pet store -- we were in a hurry, he hadn't had enough exercise that day and was super excited about the animals, and I was trying to find a particular kind of dog food and wasn't having any luck. He was bouncing around *everywhere*, and I was trying to push the cart through the narrow, uneven aisles, and was kind of yelling at him under my breath. Well, we collided, not too hard, but I can guarantee that if anyone had been watching us (especially from the beginning), they would have sworn that I did it, and on purpose. At that point, all frustrated and annoyed and with a bouncing child, I would not have taken anyone's advice to heart, and would have griped about them endlessly to whoever would listen once I got home.

I greatly appreciate the wonderful people who step in with a kind word BEFORE we get on edge. That's the kind of help I want to be.
post #45 of 65
I actually think the old gentleman spoke to me AFTER i'd begun snapping at DD but he sort of gave the impression that he hadn't heard anything...? Does that make sense? His attitude said "i KNOW how hard this can be" and not "i KNOW you need to be stopped to protect your poor kid". I am usually good with perspective but having a tiny baby makes the things i don't usually mind pretty annoying. Like it is fine for me and DD1 to take 40minutes in the rain to wander up our hill, but when the baby is getting wet in the wrap it is Not Cool. He managed to give perspective and diffuse without shaming me.
post #46 of 65
just to reply to the washer / dryer emergency comments....

i live in the D.C. area where the power keeps going in and out (thanks PEPCO!). Once it shortwired the washer and the load stopped midcycle. It just needed the attn of the Maytag man, but if it had truly broken, I would have needed a replacement. And since my laundry accumulates, and there is only an approx 2 h window in any given 10 day stretch that I can get to a Lowes to shop... if I finally made it to one, I wouldn't leave without buying. Plus you don't know if that mother is a single mother, or if she has other kids that she made arrangements for childcare... or if she cloth diapers and has no good access to a laundromat, and no more clean diapers, and no money to buy disposable... or if she had a laundry based business that her livelihood depends on.
You just never know...
post #47 of 65
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dd1 was mucking about and i was losing my rag a little and an old gentleman who was walking slowly up the same hill as us said sympathetically "you have to do it all at their pace at that age don't you?". An ally, rather than a crusader wading in the "rescue my poor child", brought out the best in me, and we all walked together, my kids and this ally, up the hill, far more relaxed about it all, and he told me about his kids and how they were as 4yo's.
This is so lovely it almost made me cry. This is what it is about.
post #48 of 65
For all those of you who specifically responded to me, just wanted to say I read your responses and it's been good food for thought. The one thing I just don't think I've explained well is that most of these exchanges with moms did not end with me saying whatever I said, and them saying "Thanks, that was helpful. Bye bye." They led to conversations. In a couple of these situations I even offered to buy the mom and kid/kids a snack because mom wanted to talk further and the kids were getting restless, so we went and sat somewhere and continued to talk.

Maybe some of them just smiled and were nice to get rid of me. But too many of these situations led to conversations where the MOM (and in 2 cases dads) wanted to continue the conversation for me to give up completely on addressing parents the way I have, in the kinds of situations I did.

I will definitely give more thought to what I say, and maybe - I'd rather never ever be in one of those situations again, but I do seem to run across them fairly frequently - if there is a next time, I'll try to think about what some of you have said re: my approach (mainly the many of you who said the backfire comment would piss you off - although honestly that seems to be the point at which many of the past moms actually perked up and payed closer attention).

And I get that most of you feel like talking to a mom after the situation is over is like the traffic safety lesson to someone who is physically injured. I just can't... I know how it feels to see these situations unfold in front of your eyes, and given the seriousness of the ones I've intervened in, I just can't say I won't still go over after the fact. I can't imagine walking away after a child's just been hit in a seriously inappropriate way (we're not talking jerking your kid's arm a bit too strongly or even whacking them once because they talked back or had a fit.)

But I'll definitely give the whole thing a lot more thought.

Note to Sierra: I could go on about my theories on why the "going to bite you later" comment seems to actually have the opposite effect so many of you think it would/does and seems to further engage the moms I've spoken to instead of making them ball up their fists. But this isn't the thread - I'd be happy to PM you. But I assure you - you guys may doubt most of what I say, but I am in tune enough to know the difference between a comment that consistently pulls someone in more than it pisses them off or sends them away. Thanks for your comments though and the way in which you put them.
post #49 of 65
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Originally Posted by LROM View Post
For all those of you who specifically responded to me, just wanted to say I read your responses and it's been good food for thought. The one thing I just don't think I've explained well is that most of these exchanges with moms did not end with me saying whatever I said, and them saying "Thanks, that was helpful. Bye bye." They led to conversations. In a couple of these situations I even offered to buy the mom and kid/kids a snack because mom wanted to talk further and the kids were getting restless, so we went and sat somewhere and continued to talk.

Maybe some of them just smiled and were nice to get rid of me. But too many of these situations led to conversations where the MOM (and in 2 cases dads) wanted to continue the conversation for me to give up completely on addressing parents the way I have, in the kinds of situations I did.

I will definitely give more thought to what I say, and maybe - I'd rather never ever be in one of those situations again, but I do seem to run across them fairly frequently - if there is a next time, I'll try to think about what some of you have said re: my approach (mainly the many of you who said the backfire comment would piss you off - although honestly that seems to be the point at which many of the past moms actually perked up and payed closer attention).

And I get that most of you feel like talking to a mom after the situation is over is like the traffic safety lesson to someone who is physically injured. I just can't... I know how it feels to see these situations unfold in front of your eyes, and given the seriousness of the ones I've intervened in, I just can't say I won't still go over after the fact. I can't imagine walking away after a child's just been hit in a seriously inappropriate way (we're not talking jerking your kid's arm a bit too strongly or even whacking them once because they talked back or had a fit.)

But I'll definitely give the whole thing a lot more thought.

Note to Sierra: I could go on about my theories on why the "going to bite you later" comment seems to actually have the opposite effect so many of you think it would/does and seems to further engage the moms I've spoken to instead of making them ball up their fists. But this isn't the thread - I'd be happy to PM you. But I assure you - you guys may doubt most of what I say, but I am in tune enough to know the difference between a comment that consistently pulls someone in more than it pisses them off or sends them away. Thanks for your comments though and the way in which you put them.
I can assure you, if you approached me about my interactions with my child it would not be pretty. I am pretty sure I would see right through you, particularly if you said you were a Dr. or some kind of child care expert, I'm intuitive like that. I could totally see accidentally running into my 5 year old with a cart in a store, not slamming into him of course, but accidently bumping him yes. He is all over the place sometimes, hanging on the end of the cart, which I don't mind, but if he jumps off he might get hit by the cart. He might be walking in front of me and stop abruptly and get bumped, it happens. Intervening because you see a child getting beat is one thing, butting your nose in every time you see a mother who looks stressed in another, especially when you have a young child and haven't even been in that person's position yet. I agree with the PPs that said these people were being polite, they may have also been afraid of you because you identified yourself as someone you are not and they sensed something was off so they didn't want to cause any problems. It sounds like you are looking for these opportunities to portray yourself as something you are not. Its not good.
post #50 of 65
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Originally Posted by cycle View Post
I can assure you, if you approached me about my interactions with my child it would not be pretty. I am pretty sure I would see right through you, particularly if you said you were a Dr. or some kind of child care expert, I'm intuitive like that. I could totally see accidentally running into my 5 year old with a cart in a store, not slamming into him of course, but accidently bumping him yes. He is all over the place sometimes, hanging on the end of the cart, which I don't mind, but if he jumps off he might get hit by the cart. He might be walking in front of me and stop abruptly and get bumped, it happens. Intervening because you see a child getting beat is one thing, butting your nose in every time you see a mother who looks stressed in another, especially when you have a young child and haven't even been in that person's position yet. I agree with the PPs that said these people were being polite, they may have also been afraid of you because you identified yourself as someone you are not and they sensed something was off so they didn't want to cause any problems. It sounds like you are looking for these opportunities to portray yourself as something you are not. Its not good.
This. Very strongly, this.

And in 8 months of being out among the rabble, I have not had a SINGLE occasion where I thought I knew more than another parent and felt the need to say ANYTHING. I'm pretty dang smart, but mostly I'm smart enough to know that I don't know everything, and when it comes to how others parent, I don't know *anything* about their lives or circumstances. A cheerful, "You've got your hands full!" or "Kids- aren't they great?" with a wink has never gotten anything other than a knowing grin back.
post #51 of 65
I'm not usually one to interfere in other people's business or how they parent their children but recently I was at Target with my 3 who were actually all behaving and happy that day(miracle of miracles!) and I saw a mom just completely losing it with her 3. She had a screaming toddler in the seat of the cart, one toddler holding the edge of the cart, and one preschool-kindergarten age child throwing herself on the ground having a tantrum. I saw her roughly grab the child and pretty much toss her into the back of the cart and yank the one child holding onto the cart to get him to move so she could finish her shopping while yelling at them loud enough that I could hear about 2 aisles away. I felt awful because the kids were really well-dressed and well cared for it looked like and she just seemed to be having an off day. I kinda forgot about it and saw her later in the laundry detergent aisle still having problems with her kids and as I walked by I said, "3 can be a handful sometimes huh? We had one of those days yesterday. It was all I could do to take a deep breath, leave my cart in the aisle, and walk out so I didn't scream and rip my own hair out. I really sympathize with you. You have beautiful children." She just smiled a little, agreed, and walked away towards the registers but she looked a little calmer and more in control and hopefully next time it'll occur to her to just leave her cart and take the kids outside and get control and worry abotu the shopping later. I think it just truly did not even cross her mind to drop what she needed and leave, or she needed those items that day and couldn't wait and felt she had to stay and finish her shopping with scrteaming kids. I really felt for her. I have days when my kids are really acting up all at once and I'm overwhelmed and I lose my temper and do things I regret later. I think we all do.
post #52 of 65
I haven't read any of the other responses yet, but I think this may not have been her mom.

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Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
Mom was kinda young-ish, and clearly seemed to be losing her grip this morning.
An older sister can easily be the same age as a young mom. An older cousin is also quite plausible. Certainly a young aunt could be also.
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Dressed perfectly.
Which suggest a more relaxed person may have been responsible for that part.
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At one point, mom yanked her arm a little, and when the daughter yelled a dramatic "Ow you pulled my arm".. mom looked around, then loudly said "I'm trying to teach you a lesson, how do you think it feels?"
This is just what older siblings/cousins do. A parent rarely feels a need to state that something was done to teach a lesson, it is just an unspoken constant. An older sibling though needs to state it as an excuse for bad behavior and to assert authority.
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"Come out... get out... do we need to go home? Do, I need to call grandma to come get you? Get out, come out...."
It sounds like grandma is the actual authority here, not the young lady with the girl. Also, she say simply grandma not your grandma, which suggest that she may be grandma to both of them as would be the case for a sibling/cousin.
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She never came out. So, the sales lady opened the dryer and told her firmly to get out.
The child will listen to authority, but is not viewing the person she came with as authority.
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I didn't notice any obvious injuries, but the mom tossed the child into the cart and got her cell phone out, made a call, and she pushed the cart outside.

I was still looking at washers when the woman came back a few minutes later without the child.
My guess is she had grandma pick the girl up.

My guess is the child is taken care of by grandma either most of the time or during the day while both her parents work. The young lady was probably a sibling/cousin/young aunt, who may also treat grandma as a parent figure, who agreed to let her younger sibling/cousin/niece come along, but discover she wasn't up to handling the child.
post #53 of 65
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Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
No, she's not allowed to sit on top of her baby sister, LOL!

They do take turns (baby in carrier or on leash when not in stroller or cart). But whenever baby needs to be pushed... it is a nightmare. For me, that skin on the back of the heels is so sensitive and I can't bear the thought of hurting her there. It's one thing to let her run on grass and if she falls, oh well, lesson learned. Another thing to rip the skin off her tendon.
OT, but my DS walks in front of the cart too and it drives me crazy. I noticed that I have marginally more success when I say, "Walk with your feet next to my feet" instead of "Walk next to me." I think he interpreted "walk next to me" as "walk somewhere in my general vicinity." But yes, the thought of bashing into that tender skin -- yeowwwcchhhh!
post #54 of 65
It happened AGAIN, limabean, too bad I hadn't read your post before! I do ask her to "walk behind the wheel" and "walk right beside me" at times but she loves to lead.

I will try that, maybe she will like the game of making it a "tie". (She won't let me win...)
post #55 of 65
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Originally Posted by eepster View Post
I haven't read any of the other responses yet, but I think this may not have been her mom.


An older sister can easily be the same age as a young mom. An older cousin is also quite plausible. Certainly a young aunt could be also.
I also wondered if it were the mom, and I definitely agree about older siblings (having had people mistake ds1 for dd2's father a couple of times - which is really uncomfortable, honestly). But, I don't really agree with most of your reasoning. I've seen lots of well-dressed kids with parents at the end of their rope, and I don't think a child being well-dressed indicates a "relaxed" person was in charge (two of the biggest stress-bomb moms I've ever known wouldn't let their children out the door, unless they looked perfect). I've also heard parents state clearly that they're trying to teach their child a lesson (I may have even said it myself, at least to ds1, in an attempt to explain what I was doing). I frequently refer to my mom as "grandma", not as "your grandma", when talking to the kids.

I do agree that it sounds as though the child sees "grandma" as more of an authority figure than the woman she was with (be that her mom, sister, aunt, family friend or...other), though. And, it definitely sounds like she called the grandma to pick the child up.

It sounds as though she really needed a washer/dryer.
post #56 of 65
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Originally Posted by cycle View Post
I can assure you, if you approached me about my interactions with my child it would not be pretty. I am pretty sure I would see right through you, particularly if you said you were a Dr. or some kind of child care expert, I'm intuitive like that. I could totally see accidentally running into my 5 year old with a cart in a store, not slamming into him of course, but accidently bumping him yes. He is all over the place sometimes, hanging on the end of the cart, which I don't mind, but if he jumps off he might get hit by the cart. He might be walking in front of me and stop abruptly and get bumped, it happens. Intervening because you see a child getting beat is one thing, butting your nose in every time you see a mother who looks stressed in another, especially when you have a young child and haven't even been in that person's position yet. I agree with the PPs that said these people were being polite, they may have also been afraid of you because you identified yourself as someone you are not and they sensed something was off so they didn't want to cause any problems. It sounds like you are looking for these opportunities to portray yourself as something you are not. Its not good.
I'm not going to re-state the kind of situations I've intervened in. I'll simply say I'm way too busy and have enough of my own issues to deal with to actually try to interact with every parent who looks stressed. That is absurd and I would spend every waking hour doing that since I see stressed parents a very regular basis. I have no idea where you got the impression that that's what I do.

As for looking for opportunities to portray myself as something I'm not, looks like that's what I get for being honest about something I did TWICE ever in my life. Twice. Feel what you will about those 2 times, I've already said I understand why people see those 2 times that way. But if doing it twice out of all the times I've intervened makes me "looking for opportunities", I don't know what else to say.

And on that note, I'll keep reading, but that's the last I'll post about myself in this thread.
post #57 of 65
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I also wondered if it were the mom, and I definitely agree about older siblings (having had people mistake ds1 for dd2's father a couple of times - which is really uncomfortable, honestly). But, I don't really agree with most of your reasoning. I've seen lots of well-dressed kids with parents at the end of their rope, and I don't think a child being well-dressed indicates a "relaxed" person was in charge (two of the biggest stress-bomb moms I've ever known wouldn't let their children out the door, unless they looked perfect). I've also heard parents state clearly that they're trying to teach their child a lesson (I may have even said it myself, at least to ds1, in an attempt to explain what I was doing). I frequently refer to my mom as "grandma", not as "your grandma", when talking to the kids.

I do agree that it sounds as though the child sees "grandma" as more of an authority figure than the woman she was with (be that her mom, sister, aunt, family friend or...other), though. And, it definitely sounds like she called the grandma to pick the child up.

It sounds as though she really needed a washer/dryer.
I certainly agree that it could have been the mom, and absolutely none of my evidence is that strong (especially the well dressed thing.) I just remember what it was like to be taken out by one of my big sisters or my much older cousin, and the whole encounter sounds very reminiscent of those, much more so than any I ever had with my mom. It especially reminds me of one of my sisters. I've also seen similar encounters between girls who were obviously too close in age (one about 10 to 12, the other 5 to 7) to be mom and daughter.
post #58 of 65
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Originally Posted by p.s View Post
Plus you don't know if that mother is a single mother, or if she has other kids that she made arrangements for childcare... or if she cloth diapers and has no good access to a laundromat, and no more clean diapers, and no money to buy disposable... or if she had a laundry based business that her livelihood depends on.
You just never know...
Exactly. I'm reminded of a conversation I had with DH in which he said that it was ridiculous that I didn't want to take 3 kids grocery shopping with me anymore. I explained to him that they are too distracting, and if I could leave the older two at home with him then I would be able to make wiser financial decisions. You never know if her husband is the same way- maybe she NEEDED a dryer, and her mom agreed to take the kid only if it was ABSOLUTELY necessary.
post #59 of 65
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Originally Posted by cycle View Post
I can assure you, if you approached me about my interactions with my child it would not be pretty. I am pretty sure I would see right through you, particularly if you said you were a Dr. or some kind of child care expert, I'm intuitive like that. I could totally see accidentally running into my 5 year old with a cart in a store, not slamming into him of course, but accidently bumping him yes. He is all over the place sometimes, hanging on the end of the cart, which I don't mind, but if he jumps off he might get hit by the cart. He might be walking in front of me and stop abruptly and get bumped, it happens. Intervening because you see a child getting beat is one thing, butting your nose in every time you see a mother who looks stressed in another, especially when you have a young child and haven't even been in that person's position yet. I agree with the PPs that said these people were being polite, they may have also been afraid of you because you identified yourself as someone you are not and they sensed something was off so they didn't want to cause any problems. It sounds like you are looking for these opportunities to portray yourself as something you are not. Its not good.
cycle said it great. I would be LIVID if someone questioned my parenting ability in PUBLIC of all places! Geez - especially if they didn't know me at all! I've had bad moments - we ALL have. Lets not pretend for a second that ANY of us are perfect. I can easily see a child walking in front of a cart and getting accidentally hit and a parent losing it. Especially if the child is already misbehaving - its SO hard to keep cool all the time. I do occasionally give other parents a sympathetic smile, or say something like, "I have a child the same age, its tough!" to empathize. But I would NEVER say anything to a parent unless there was true violence happening - and then I would call 911 b/c I don't have the luxury of confronting a violent person and possibly risking my OWN safety (I have a child that I have to think of for goodness sakes!).
post #60 of 65
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Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
and when the daughter yelled a dramatic "Ow you pulled my arm".. ....

... mom took her cart and slammed it into her daughter. It hit the backs of her feet, knocking her forward and her head snapped backwards. The screaming was horrendous.

First thing...most here have read this as meaning the girl was knocked down. Doesn't sound like that to me.

Also sounds like the girl is a wee bit dramatic. Sounds like my son. My son who will do crazy things that should hurt him over and over and won't react, but when he's in the mood to misbehave, if I simply put my hand on his shoulder to get his attention he'll yell about it and make others think that I've hurt him. Doesn't help that I have a "stress face" that looks annoyed even when I'm ecstatic, and if he's in such a misbehaving mode that he's gotten me to get him to stop I'm generally frazzled looking...so I *look* like I'm hurting him, when I'm actually not.

I've also managed to do accidental things, like well I can't think of what, but it's generally while shopping as he's darting around, so I imagine a shopping cart has probably hit him at least once, and those things happen when I'm distracted.

So, and of course this is dangerous b/c I wasn't there, but I'm calling a "nope, wasn't how you thought it was" on this one. I think you saw something that was different than the reality, and I think that the girl was being dramatic in her reactions. DS has dropped to the ground and pretended to faint, if I just look at him funny (which is weird, b/c when I TRY to give him my mom's patented, always-worked-on-me-and-brother, Death Glare, he laughs. But then I'm trying to keep things pleasant, and he's in a heap. Gah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post
I haven't read any of the other responses yet, but I think this may not have been her mom.


An older sister can easily be the same age as a young mom. An older cousin is also quite plausible. Certainly a young aunt could be also.
Ooh dang, good point. I have 5 sibs; the 3 youngest are 13, 15, and 25 years younger. I was taking care of them and taking the two youngest out and about as soon as I could drive. But they were my siblings, so I would and could be meaner to them than I would be to my son...that's kind of in the job description for an older sib, yes?



I think there's just no real way of knowing what happened.


In the future, the "oh I've been there done that" type of sentence is good, if you can catch the eye of the adult. And only BEFORE something happens.
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