Anyone NOT like square foot gardening? - Page 2

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by ComaWhite

Another big thing is, in a traditional garden you are building soil quality every year, vs. a sfg where you are depleting the value of your fancy potting mix every year.

I thought your points on your previous post made sense, especially if you are a master gardener. I know my mom once grew a tomato MONSTER that would have just dwarfed my SFG by itself. I am happy with the SFG in my particular yard, though, because my non raised bed attempts have yielded me NOTHING (literally n.o.t.h.i.n.g.) and by constrast this year's garden is a huge success.

But I don't understand your comment about depleting soil quality in your SFG. How can that be? I just don't understand how adding compost to it each season could possibly be depleting the soil value. And I kind of had to agree with Mel that it takes YEARS to build up quality in the ground (like 7 years) - unless of course you're already starting with quality soil (which is pretty rare these days). So this comment I'm just not really seeing.

[ComaWhite]

Originally Posted by laohaire

But I don't understand your comment about depleting soil quality in your SFG. How can that be? I just don't understand how adding compost to it each season could possibly be depleting the soil value. And I kind of had to agree with Mel that it takes YEARS to build up quality in the ground (like 7 years) - unless of course you're already starting with quality soil (which is pretty rare these days). So this comment I'm just not really seeing.

To begin with a sfg doesnt have soil, just 2 parts of material designed to hold moisture and 1 part compost... the overcrowding is sure to deplete the value in the compost incredibly fast, which means if you dont add huge amouts of compost and additives every year, basically rebuilding your potting mix, the garden will get worse and worse every year....
I dont know what your soil is like, so this may differ, but ours is heavy with large amouts of clay, which means as the years go by the roots of the plants actually break up the soil and make it more available, the worms move in and improve the soil and the compost improves it even more.... where the first year you have lumpy grey matter that wont mix or break up, dries into concrete and ruins all of your carrots, by the 3rd year you have dreamy rich, black, fine earth full of worms to work with.

[tankgirl73]

This is my second year of SFG. There are a few plants that I think might have done better in a regular garden, but for the most part, everything grows great.

The 6" is no problem. My tomatoes grow to 6' tall and are laden with fruit. My cukes are short-ish but growing great cukes. My green beans are also short, but REALLY productive. Herbs are fantastic, I can't keep up with my thyme. Onions and garlic -- I've got a patch of onions in their second year (letting them go to seed) that grew 5 feet tall!

This year I'm growing melons. I didn't bother trying to make it vertical, I'm just letting them spread out. One plant is taking up 3/4 of a 4'x4' box (the other quarter is the runaway thyme lol).

I reinvigorated the soil mix with fresh compost and it's rich and healthy. No blossom end rot or signs of deficiencies.

I'm growing potatoes and carrots in a 10" box, but everything else is fine in the 6". I grew carrots in 6" last year too. They just came out L-shaped if they got big enough.

I had no problem getting coarse vermiculite. Our local garden centre carries it in the huge bags. Yeah it's a little pricey but it goes a pretty long way. And the asbestos is an old issue that's no longer applicable.

Peat is a concert... but we're using Canadian peat, which I *think* is less of a problem than other areas which have been over-harvested. But again, a little goes a long way, and with both the peat and vermiculite it's only the first year that you need it.

The potatoes are in 100% compost, and I think that ended up being even more expensive than the mix!

All that being said, I totally understand those who prefer not to use the mix and I'm certainly not 100% blindly loyal to it or anything. I just wanted to give it an honest try, and found no serious problems. The 6" is definitely not a problem either.

And I would also agree that SFG, as a strict method, would not be as practical for a larger garden area. I have 6 4'x4' boxes and one 6'x4' 10". I probably wouldn't do much more than that. Any more than that, I'd rent a tiller, dig up the lawn, and add tons and tons of compost.

EDIT: And in my SFG's second year, there are now definitely worms in the boxes!

[academama]

I have a couple of raised beds a la SFG and a "normal" garden.

I agree that the raised beds mean that you're always replenishing/adding things, whereas the garden itself improves naturally.

I also can't imagine the cost of putting in these raised beds for the whole garden. I have a general idea of adding a few more over time--because for me they are a lot easier to weed--but they're freaking expensive to do and I went super cheap with mine.

[swd12422]

Thanks for all the great information!

I'm thinking I'm going to at least start with raised beds b/c our soil is so bad here (we're in the desert) and raised beds use less water. I was also thinking I'd do a solid bottom bed because of the horrible ground squirrel problem we have in our yard, but now I'm wondering if it would be better to used some hardware cloth on the bottom so that it's open enough to drain well and solid enough to keep the critters out? That way maybe the soil underneath will benefit at least a little over the next couple of years while I figure out if I'm able to keep a larger garden alive and will be easier to dig if I decide to remove the bed and garden in-ground. Does that make sense, or is it not really a good plan?

I have to add that I've already been an abysmal failure at composting, but am still trying. I have no idea how much I'll have ready by the time I need it, but I'm keeping my tumbler as full as I can. Is store-bought compost really that bad? Should I be stalking the nearby horse farms for manure now so it can rot for a few months before I use it? (And how do I store it? If I leave it out in a pile, all the parents of the school kids who go past will complain. If I keep it inside our yard, DH will complain and the rats will come! Should I just add some to our compost tumbler or keep it separate somehow?

[kcstar]

Originally Posted by swd12422

I have to add that I've already been an abysmal failure at composting, but am still trying. I have no idea how much I'll have ready by the time I need it, but I'm keeping my tumbler as full as I can. Is store-bought compost really that bad? Should I be stalking the nearby horse farms for manure now so it can rot for a few months before I use it? (And how do I store it? If I leave it out in a pile, all the parents of the school kids who go past will complain. If I keep it inside our yard, DH will complain and the rats will come! Should I just add some to our compost tumbler or keep it separate somehow?

My compost mix tends to run wet, and I sometimes get Black Soldier Flies. The BSF maggots are clean and digest the compost well, so I let that go. It's far from perfect, but I use it anyway. Last years batch, we dug up a corner for a new bed and buried the compost under the dug dirt. I think I did end up with weeds from the batch, as well as volunteer squash.

I've purchased compost, and for a large garden it adds up very fast. A friend of mine local has recommended a horse farm nearby where she gets her compost. I don't have the details on whether the farm has already composted it or I would need to do something myself.

[MamaMonica]

We've done modified square foot gardening (no raised beds, but planted in squares) in a small space and that worked great.

We have composted horse manure which I layer with newspaper and that grows monster veggies. If only it didn't grow monster ZUCCHINI! Now I use traditional rows as these are easiest to irrigate with soaker hoses.

[AAK]

I am going to try it this next year. But, modified. Also, when I asked about SFG on here, someone pointed me to lasagna gardening and to Ruth Stout. Those were both good reads as well and has rounded out my viewpoint some. After reading this thread, I will be requesting a few more titles from the library.

I won't be using Mel's mix. I will probably use the idea of marking the squares out. But, my biggest thing FOR trying this out is that we have a ton of invaders over here. The deer have been relentless, we also have skunks, raccoons, our own cats, birds, etc. And, I like his simple ways to cover the bed. I like that I can cover to keep animals out, and then I can use the same frame with small change to extend the season. I like having paths that are specifically for walking and making them more permanant.

I don't plan on having everything in the square foot garden. Some stuff will be done differently and I am going about it slowly. But, I love gardening, but haven't been successful in a while. I plan on covering beds with black plastic for a couple weeks before planting to kill weed seeds --this has worked in the past for us. The absense of light and the heat created do wonders.

Oh, and the person who mentioned that clay soil is modified by year three. . . not for everyone. My dad is quite the gardener, but he still has issues with his clay. He has been living there for 20 years now. It took at least 7 for the soil to seem "good". He adds abundant amounts of compost all the time. His garden is very productive now--and has been for a while, but he still can't grow tomatoes like he used to!

Amy

[Arduinna]

I never read the book, but I have enjoyed the basic concept of square foot gardening and I've had success with it.

[jenfl]

I really appreciate this thread. We're thinking of doing rasied beds/SFG because here in Florida we have sand for soil.

tankgirl73 -- to the idea of L-shaped carrots!