Second Mediation Session and H's proposal for CS/Custody

[kryztuh]

I spent the majority of the 2nd mediation session listening to H and mediator go back and forth over custody and CS amounts. H wants me to agree to a lower CS amount or he wants shared physical custody (to reduce CS amount), which equals a minimum of 128 overnights/year, or 11/month, so way more than EOW.

The mediator really tried to get H to see that even IF a judge would grant him 3 overnights every 8 days (H works an 8 day schedule, 4 on, 4 off), that is only 136 overnights a year, not counting when his 4 off overlap with my weekend off, (that time would at least be split), and any holidays I have which trump days off. And H would have to actually take children all of those days that he commits to. Mediator said it's unlikely he will actually make the 128 day minimum, or it would be extremely close. Again, IF a judge would even agree to it.

At the end of the session after listening to H come up with excuse after excuse, the mediator suggested he email me a proposal and CC the mediator so Med. could weigh-in on legality, etc. and maybe just maybe something could be worked out without going to court.

I'm due in 5 weeks and told them if it's not worked out by then, I'm going to file. Mediator again pointed out to H that I could file right now and I'm actually losing money trying to work this out and be flexible. H also owed me $$ for actual bills he incurred over the time he's been moved out and mediator told him to pay me NOW because I'm being really flexible and shouldn't have to hound him for money.

We only discussed the parenting plan I put together briefly, but H looked like he would agree to most on it.

I got the proposal and wow, H would make out like a bandit over the next 18 years, but I would get sole physical custody and not have to go to court and I would get SOMETHING each month.

The proposal is obviously more complicated and there are a lot of factors, and I'm going to talk it over with a lawyer after I hear the mediators comments on it.

But just wanted to see what others thought. How much in CS would you give up FOREVER (don't know if that's even legal, H wants me to agree to never to go court to have it adjusted, and he won't go to court either in the even that I make more) to have sole physical custody, have the agreement for visitation to be MUTALLY agreed upon, and not have to go to court and get lawyers. etc.? Would you give up 50% in CS? More/less?

I think if I do agree to a proposal, I will definately do a counter-proposal with me giving nothing for his equity in the house (he will more than make that up in CS savings) and a higher amount in CS than what he is offering.

And I thought mediation was going to be easier. It's very emotionally draining trying to draft an agreement that will affect me and my kids for the next 18 years...

[doubledutch]

how much $$ are you giving up in child support versus how much would a court battle cost? what would potentially hurt your kids more - you not having the full $ amount of child support each month, or you possibly incurring debt to cover your legal fees?

is there any chance you won't get sole physical custody if you go to court?

these are things i've thought about too. i thought of offering stbx a free pass on child support in exchange for the things that were most important to me (custody and a schedule that would be good for the kids, and being able to "just file" instead of going to court). ultimately i decided it would be foolish of me to turn down child support (which is for my kids, not for me) and put my kids at risk - what if 5 or 10 years from now, i'm in a situation where that child support money is really needed in order for me to take good care of them? and then after all that thinking, i found out that judges in my state won't sign off on a divorce where you grossly deviate from the state guidelines. they don't care that stbx doesn't want to work. they care that my kids' needs are met, and the guidelines are there to make sure that happens.

mediation sounds tough, but court is probably just as bad or worse. i hope you can avoid going to court, but ultimately we all have to do what's best for our kids and if he won't cooperate and be reasonable, then you may have to go that way. hth!

[PoppyMama]

I wouldn't agree to a reduction without sole legal. Sole physical doesn't mean much because there will be a visitation plan in place that you can't violate. In return for sole physical, legal and getting to claim the kids every year on the tax return I would agree to a reduction in child support.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

I wouldn't agree to a reduction without sole legal. Sole physical doesn't mean much because there will be a visitation plan in place that you can't violate. In return for sole physical, legal and getting to claim the kids every year on the tax return I would agree to a reduction in child support.

these were exactly my thoughts too.

[vannienicole]

I agree....in this case, sole legal is the bargaining chip. And don't give up your right to modify. You don't know what 5 years down the road will be like. (?)

[Minxie]

I might agree to a reduction in child support for sole legal AND physical custody, split education and medical expenses 50/50 including daycare expenses, visitation agreement at my discretion and the right to revisit the agreement as necessary. You don't know what will happen in three years; will you be employed? Will one of your children have extraordinary expenses?

You say you are due in five weeks; I assume that means with a child. Have you considered the medical expenses involved? What if, God forbid, the child needs some additional care? Don't set anything in stone now; just my 2 cents.

[kryztuh]

Thanks for the responses, things I wouldn't have thought of. The agreement will definately split all medical/dental expenses, childcare/preschool, and extracurricular activities 50/50. H is required to carry children on his very good insurance, and I'm on there until the divorce would go through next year. And to show proof of children as beneficiaries on his life insurance.

It will be hard to put exact visitation down because of H's weird schedule, EOW wouldn't work at all, but it says no overnights before 2 years old, then gradual as child is ready and must be mutually agreed on by both of us, and conditional on H keeping up with daytime visits.

I really like the idea of me claiming kids on taxes. I don't think H will EVER agree to give up legal custody. EVER. I think I will definitely bring it up though and see what his reaction is.

I'm really interested to see what the mediator says because he originally told us that you can't deviate too far from the CS guidelines, like others have also posted. However H is convinced by people he's talked to that there's a way to do it. Who knows, his way might be to agree to the CS guidelines but then have a side verbal agreement with me to pay less. I have no idea how he thinks we are getting around that.

One of the biggest things H balked at in the parenting agreement was requiring a background check on anyone he plans on living with. Of all the things, that's the one he complained about. Right now he's living with his parents but I'm sure there's plans in the works to move in with someone. And I don't think he wants me to know anything about this person. Go figure.

[LoveOhm]

I am gladly giving up child support for sole legal, sole physical, no visitation (I can be gracious and give more time but our order will say "no visitation"), me claiming our dd every year. That said, I'm in a financial position and have a strong support system that allows me to handle the added expense of dd now and in the future better than if he were in the picture.

In your situation (with twins if I am reading your signature correctly) I would in no way go for a reduction of CS without obtaining sole legal custody and perhaps your last name or at min. a hyphnated last name. Sole physical does not really mean anything since there will be visitation ~ the power is in legal custody. Legal custody determins so much about your own life: where you can or can't move, having to get permission for everything with your kids - passports, medical, religious items, how holidays in your home are celebrated.

Also you need to have set visitation days and now is the time to set them. DO NOT LEAVE THAT VAGUE!!!! If you want to gradually build up state each step. This is important because IF he keeps them longer you can show the order to the police and give the legal system the tools to help you. IF he wants to pick the kids up from childcare not on his day legally he will be able to and the center will be in an odd situation since you won't have set visitation.

Another thing with sole legal it will make several items in your agreement pointless ----- you can take them right out since he will have no imput on them. Like IF you want to vax or not. It will be none of his business IF you have sole legal. IF you want to travel to Spain it will be none of his business as long as it does not yake place during his visitation, etc.

Best of luck mama! Again fight for sole legal that truly is what counts.

[homewithtwinsmama]

Originally Posted by kryztuh

I spent the majority of the 2nd mediation session listening to H and mediator go back and forth over custody and CS amounts. H wants me to agree to a lower CS amount or he wants shared physical custody (to reduce CS amount), which equals a minimum of 128 overnights/year, or 11/month, so way more than EOW.

The mediator really tried to get H to see that even IF a judge would grant him 3 overnights every 8 days (H works an 8 day schedule, 4 on, 4 off), that is only 136 overnights a year, not counting when his 4 off overlap with my weekend off, (that time would at least be split), and any holidays I have which trump days off. And H would have to actually take children all of those days that he commits to. Mediator said it's unlikely he will actually make the 128 day minimum, or it would be extremely close. Again, IF a judge would even agree to it.

At the end of the session after listening to H come up with excuse after excuse, the mediator suggested he email me a proposal and CC the mediator so Med. could weigh-in on legality, etc. and maybe just maybe something could be worked out without going to court.

I'm due in 5 weeks and told them if it's not worked out by then, I'm going to file. Mediator again pointed out to H that I could file right now and I'm actually losing money trying to work this out and be flexible. H also owed me $$ for actual bills he incurred over the time he's been moved out and mediator told him to pay me NOW because I'm being really flexible and shouldn't have to hound him for money.

We only discussed the parenting plan I put together briefly, but H looked like he would agree to most on it.

I got the proposal and wow, H would make out like a bandit over the next 18 years, but I would get sole physical custody and not have to go to court and I would get SOMETHING each month.

The proposal is obviously more complicated and there are a lot of factors, and I'm going to talk it over with a lawyer after I hear the mediators comments on it.

But just wanted to see what others thought. How much in CS would you give up FOREVER (don't know if that's even legal, H wants me to agree to never to go court to have it adjusted, and he won't go to court either in the even that I make more) to have sole physical custody, have the agreement for visitation to be MUTALLY agreed upon, and not have to go to court and get lawyers. etc.? Would you give up 50% in CS? More/less?

I think if I do agree to a proposal, I will definately do a counter-proposal with me giving nothing for his equity in the house (he will more than make that up in CS savings) and a higher amount in CS than what he is offering.

And I thought mediation was going to be easier. It's very emotionally draining trying to draft an agreement that will affect me and my kids for the next 18 years...

Aw, dear, I am so sorry. Why do so many men just want the kids enough days to never have to support them? Its truly sickening.

One thing I would NEVER do is agree to never going back for more child support. Suppose he won the lottery or somehow got an amazing job promotion where his standard of living went way up and then your kids got screwed. I would say that as long as he makes payments on time EVERY time and his own salary did not increase by more than 10K or some such figure you would stay out of court. The other thing is that guys like this usually start flaking out on taking the kids as soon as they find a new girlfriend so you may very well end up with them all the time anyhow. Think about right of first refusal on taking them if he can't be with them so he doesn't just dump them with friends, family, girlfriends. Have you looked at the thread here called "what you wish you had put into the divorce agreement"? That thread is pure gold!

On the other hand, if I really could support my kids on my own I would give up just about anything to keep a bad situation minimized, but only on the advice of counsel that I couldn't make a better deal. The other thing is that a lot of judges won't accept agreements that are clearly financially unfair to the children. So he may be in for a surprise.

[homewithtwinsmama]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

I wouldn't agree to a reduction without sole legal. Sole physical doesn't mean much because there will be a visitation plan in place that you can't violate. In return for sole physical, legal and getting to claim the kids every year on the tax return I would agree to a reduction in child support.

Not bad Poppymama, you know how to play hardball!

LoveOhm is a wise woman and I agree, just went through a battle with a friend for sole legal and it made a huge difference. Her ex had been preventing a suicidal teen from getting the mental health help he needed because of joint legal! I would give up much to get that control.

[Ceinwen]

I would gladly give up CS in return for sole legal/sole physical. I'm also in a position to support myself though.

[kryztuh]

So I'm still waiting on H to send the proposal in writing via email and CC the mediator. He explained it to me verbally and I told him I would give him feedback after I got it in email. He now says he wants to add/change a few things and he's working on it. It's been over a week. I'm tired of reminding him and asking him what's going on.

He knows I will file if things don't get resolved when the baby is born. I'm doing everything I can to work this out without getting the courts involved and he doesn't seem to care one way or the other. So frustrated and getting anxious about impending birth etc.

I know others have posted to just go see a lawyer now and at least have my ducks in a row to file if H doesn't come through, I'm just so stinking mad and sad over the whole thing, especially since I've been probably much more civil and flexible than I need to be. I hate this.

[myra_mcgray]

I think it is questionable if the judge would approve an agreement where the parties agreed to never modify or to go to court.