Euthanising Our Dog MINI UPDATE # 46

[SundayCrepes]

Our dog has lived years beyond her life expectancy. She is perfectly healthy. Except she is having increasing difficulty with her back end. She gets medication for this daily. She barks when she needs to stand up. We've been helping her with that for awhile. Now when she stands her back foot won't uncurl sometimes. We have to do that for her. There will come a point when she can't move at all. Unless someone has a great suggestion for giving mobility to a 70 pound dog, there is only one outcome we can see.

Our kids are 4.5 and just turned 2. Obviously we will not explain much to our 2 year old. But what do we tell our son? On one hand I can't bear to tell him that we will be choosing to kill our dog (we do have 2 others plus cats, chickens and a tortoise. She is not favorite dog, but she is part of the family.) On the other hand, he is young enough to be accepting of many things and we will make our choice for our dog based on compassion. Kind of wish we made similar choices for people, but that's a different discussion. However, euthanasia is a viable option in our philosophical world.

We are vegetarians and I have been heavy handed with him about this. I have told him, "I don't think the chicken wants to be eaten" and such. (Please don't go off on that. I'm not wanting to have that discussion especially since this works within my values.) My son doesn't like to watch animal documentaries because, as he says, "The animals always get eaten." We were recently reading a kids' book called People. In it the book had a page dedicated to all the different animals that people around the world eat. My son will not look at that book any more.

When we had a chicken die a couple years ago we told him she would find a new body and that worked for him. We will tell him the same thing about our dog.

As I'm typing this, I'm thinking it might be too hard for him to know we killed her. I'd still like to hear what other people have to say.

[madskye]

Are you convinced that what you are doing is more humane for the dog? If that was how I felt, that would be what I'd explain to my child. It sounds like the big picture--your dog reaching the point where it has no mobility at all--is compelling enough to tell your child that you really believe dogs need to be able to walk and run and live a dog life, and at this point, you think this is the kindest thing to do.

[SundayCrepes]

Originally Posted by madskye

Are you convinced that what you are doing is more humane for the dog? If that was how I felt, that would be what I'd explain to my child. It sounds like the big picture--your dog reaching the point where it has no mobility at all--is compelling enough to tell your child that you really believe dogs need to be able to walk and run and live a dog life, and at this point, you think this is the kindest thing to do.

Yes, when we get to that point (and we're not there now) it will be the kindest thing. I totally agree with what you're saying. Maybe my hesitancy about this is I don't want to have to make that choice. I'd prefer she'd just die in her sleep. Her brain is totally with it. The thought of having to kill her simply because she (won't be able to) move is heartwrenching. I guess when she gets bad enough the decision will be easier to make. (Maybe. I hope it's an easier decision to make.)

He saw her laying in her diarrhea the other day. He tries to help get her to standing.

This is all so sad and will be hard.

I appreciate your thoughts and would appreciate what others have to say.

My dog's name is Emma. She looks like a black golden retriever. She was rescued from the Indian Reservation. I have had her since she was 10 months old. She is 14.5. Her life expectancy was 12 years. One time some of our baby chicks got out of the coop. Another dog was trying to get at them. Emma protected the chicks until I could get to them and return them to their mama.

[babygirlie]

Who's to say what anyone's "life expentacy" is? I don't believe in putting animals down.

[SundayCrepes]

Originally Posted by babygirlie

I don't believe in putting animals down.

I don't believe in letting animals lie in their poop because we went to the grocery store and the dog couldn't get up and go out by herself. I don't believe in making my dog wait all day until my husband gets home so we can carry her down the stairs together so she can pee since I am not strong enough to carry her by myself. I don't believe in torturing a large old dog by carrying her out the house and down the stairs to see if maybe she has to pee. And then using whatever means we have to hold her in an unnatural position to see if she has to pee or poop. And if she can't go because she doesn't have to go or because the position is so unnatural that she can't go so we take her back inside only to put her through that an hour later. And what happens if she needs to go in the middle of the night and it takes both of us to get her outside except the baby senses my being gone and starts screaming and wakes up her brother and now I have two crying kids alone in our bed while I'm outside torturing my dog so she can pee?

If you have any suggestions on how to manage these very real aspects of her life that will be coming up in the next days or weeks or months, please let me know. Beyond that your comments are not welcome.

[sunnygir1]

I chose euthanasia for my 14.5yo dog last fall. I adopted her when she was 5 weeks old. It was a difficult decision, but she was in a similar situation; severe arthritis from hip displaysia. She needed help getting up and fell regularly. She was in quite a bit of pain despite anti-inflammatory and pain medications. She was at the highest dose for her weight and was becoming a complete invalid. I believe it was the best decision, and I know how hard it can be to decide when enough is enough.

Dd was 2y 8 mo. We had talked to her about how our dog was getting old and would die some day. We chose to have her visit my sister while the vet came. I wanted to have her there for the burial, but was talked out of it. I wish she'd been there because I think it would have helped her process it. She and I planted flowers on the grave together. I told her that we called the vet to help our dog die. She was young to get it, but wasn't overly freaked out by the whole thing. She was sad and cried.

[greenmulberry]

Can you start an ongoing discussion with your son about how Emma is doing, and maybe see if this is a conclusion he can "help" you come up with? Maybe start talking about how she isn't going to get better, and he terrible she feels.

I know when our first dog entered that stage, it was easy to see her grief at waking and finding she had soiled her self, and her confusion at how it had happened.

(I have an Emma dog too!)

[Oubliette8]

They make rear end slings to help dogs like yours stand and walk short distances. They also make wheel chairs, but it doesn't sound like either is a viable long term option here. Just thought I'd mention them in case you wanted to explore that.

I'm not really sure what to tell your son. I think less might be more, unless he has questions. It is obvious to him that his dog is old and sick. He might be content just hearing that she died. The how may not matter as much. I think 4 might be a bit young to understand the ethics of euthanasia, its hard for many adults grasp. If you do explain it, I'd think about misconceptions he might have and try to explain in a way to avoid those- small children might think you or the doctor will help them die if they get sick for instance, which might scare them.

[zeldamomma]

When we had to put our dog down, we told our 4 y.o. that she was hurting all the time, and this was the only way we could help her (which was an over-simplification, but essentially true). He was sad, but ok with it, although he isn't a particularly sensitive kid. In your case, you might say something like "it was just too hard on her to live like that." I imagine that her disability is uncomfortable for her, even if "pain" isn't the right word. I'm so sorry your family (including your dog) is going through this-- our dog's ailment came to head fairly quickly, which in some ways made it easier.

One painful aspect of being completely honest with my 4 y.o. is that for quite a while he would talk about our having "killed" our dog. Just an FYI.

[Grace and Granola]

I haven't been through the situation, but we will have to deal with a similar choice in the coming years, so I have thought about it. I also have a 4, almost 5, year old and I can't imagine telling him that we chose to "kill" the dog. No matter how pretty or nice you paint the picture, the fact that it was a choice would not sit well with my son at this age. My kids are known to take one situation and apply it to any similar situation in their life. I can imagine after euthanizing our dog, my ds1 would be freaked the next time he was "very sick," because maybe we would have to do that to him. kwim? If it were my family with my kids, I would simply explain after the fact that dear dog passed today and went (to find a new body) or however you like to put it.

I'm so sorry to hear about you sweet pup.

[cycle]

Originally Posted by babygirlie

Who's to say what anyone's "life expentacy" is? I don't believe in putting animals down.

Letting a dog suffer in pain when they are so very obviously near death is cruel and inhumane. Dogs give us their unconditional love their entire lives, in turn we need to listen to them when the suffering is too much and end do the humane thing and end their suffering. I've had to "put down" two of my dogs in my life so far, one had congestive heart failure and the medications were not working anymore. The alternative was to allow her to literally drown from the fluid building up around her heart and in her lungs. You would do that to a dog who loved you her entire life? The other had a nasty cancer of the blood vessels that caused huge blood filled tumors internally. No chemo or radiation would have helped him. The night I put him down he would have bled to death within a few hours. You would have allowed him to suffer through bleeding to death? Thats not very humane or kind of you.

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes

I don't believe in letting animals lie in their poop because we went to the grocery store and the dog couldn't get up and go out by herself. I don't believe in making my dog wait all day until my husband gets home so we can carry her down the stairs together so she can pee since I am not strong enough to carry her by myself. I don't believe in torturing a large old dog by carrying her out the house and down the stairs to see if maybe she has to pee. And then using whatever means we have to hold her in an unnatural position to see if she has to pee or poop. And if she can't go because she doesn't have to go or because the position is so unnatural that she can't go so we take her back inside only to put her through that an hour later. And what happens if she needs to go in the middle of the night and it takes both of us to get her outside except the baby senses my being gone and starts screaming and wakes up her brother and now I have two crying kids alone in our bed while I'm outside torturing my dog so she can pee?

If you have any suggestions on how to manage these very real aspects of her life that will be coming up in the next days or weeks or months, please let me know. Beyond that your comments are not welcome.

OP, it sounds like its almost time if she can't go out to potty herself. We are going through this now with one of our dogs. He has lost a lot of weight and isn't eating much but the doctors don't know what is wrong, they can't find anything but a spot on his lung. He is very old for a big dog, around 14-15. We have been preparing my five year old for a couple of weeks that he is very close to dying, he knows he is sick and we have told him that when he can no longer eat or he is in pain then he will have to end his suffering and he will die. He is sad and he is very compassionate but I feel much better telling him the truth. We have lost another dog very close to us, not ours but a close friend's and ds grieved through that and still brings it up and its been two years.

[Sierra]

We were in a similar position in December (kids were 3 and 4 at the time), when our old dog started to go downhill in a major way (we learned she had tumors inside her liver, stomach, abdominal cavity...everywhere). We too are vegetarians.

We explained that our dog was in a lot of pain and that there was nothing more the vet could do. We explained that she was very old. They understood because they saw her hurting and her peeing and pooping (bloody) poop everywhere.

We decided to put our dog down. We decided to explain everything to our children honestly, and handle it openly. We also, after much consideration and some debate with ourselves, decided to give them the option to be there. They decided to accept the offer. We were lucky in that everything went smoothly and it was as calm as could be expected. It was very sad, and the kids saw us coping. They got to experience what it was like to go through that as a family. When we got back to the car my 4 year old sobbed and sobbed because "now we don't have a dog. Nikki is dead!"

However, I think seeing her die was actually really helpful in them understanding and processing her death. When the vet left us alone with her body (this makes me cry still, just thinking about saying goodbye to her), the kids touched her and tried to figure out what was going on. I explained to them once again what I had told them about for weeks. I explained about her heart stopping and her lungs no longer breathing, etc. After they touched her for a few minutes, my dw felt they were "poking her" and took them out of the room. I spent a few more minutes with her body by myself.

A couple weeks later, the kids weren't there when I picked up her ashes, but they did see me bring them home. We sat for a long time together just touhing the nice wooden box. Then upon their request, I opened the box, which was screwed shut, and we looked at the ashes. We talked about cremation, and I assured them once again that the body couldn't feel anything, etc.

They spent a lot of time processing this over the months, and they still talk about her sometimes...but they talk much less now about her dying and much more about things they remember from when she was alive. I think they miss her and still grieve some for her, but they are very at peace about her actual death.

That was actually their second experience of the death of a dog. When they were both 2, our other dog's harness somehow unclipped from his leash, and he went running and got hit by a car. They didn't see him die, but it was like one minute he was there and the next he was gone. The city picked up his body and said he would go to a big freezer with "roadkill" until it was filled up and then eventually to an "animal cemetary," but it didn't sound like the kind of place we could visit really. He was so bloody and I couldn't think of what else to do, with the policeman there with his police car, except to let them take him.

That death was harder on the kids. They talked about his death...not HIM...but that he died and wasn't around anymore, etc. etc. nonstop for about a year. Not a lot of peace there.

[madskye]

She sounds like a wonderful dog, I'm sorry you're going through this.

I just wanted to add that we put our golden mix to sleep last Easter, it was a bit easier of a decision as we had taken him to the vet and found out he had internal bleeding. He was really in pain and it was horrible. I wouldn't have prolonged it any more than we did. We didn't tell our DD (then four) that we euthanized, we just presented it as he died and that was enough to for her to process. So, you might not have to go there with your child at all. Euthaniasia is a huge topic to get into with a child, especially one that's under five. I wasn't ready for that.

I know it's just semantics, but I really have never felt like I killed Casey (my old dog). Yes, I ordered the needle, but it wasn't to kill him, it was to spare him suffering that was going to end with his death shortly anyway. It sounds woo-woo, but other people had told me that with pets you'll know when it's time--and now having gone through it, I agree. I'm not a huge proponent of euthanasia, and would much rather have an animal go peacefully--but I can't get on board for just watching an animal suffer when they can't be helped. I guess I just felt like it was up to me to be a good steward and take care of him and make that decision eventually.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by babygirlie

I don't believe in putting animals down.

Then don't have pets. Because SOMETIMES we have to do the kindest thing for them - and that is putting them down. I will never get the picture out of my head when my beag girl's vet showed me the xray of her chest & abdomen. The ONLY thing you could see was cancerous masses, and the only thing they could do was put her her down, or put her on oxygen and pain killers. She could barely breathe, she could barely walk... couldn't eat - and I mean not even the tastiest morsel I could find for her... And that was just not a life I could leave her to. It was better to have her go peacefully in my arms, knowing she was loved. So please, go on in not believing in putting down animals. Just don't bring any into your home.

OP... My parents had a Lab that lost the use of her hind limbs. And we went through the same thing of trying to get her outside, etc. Thing is... that lack of movement also led to opportunistic infestations of maggots. They were basically eating her alive. God bless them, my parents spent hours picking the darned things off and out of her. But for every one? At least one more took it's place. We finally convinced them to let her go, because it was no longer kind to keep her.

Please - talk to your vet about your dog's situation. And then let your son know that, because they can't care for themselves, we sometimes have to make difficult choices for our pets when they are just too sick.

[an_aurora]

We are there too, or will be soon, with both of our dogs. "Not believing in" putting animals down just doesn't work. I will not have my animals suffer. One of our dogs we adopted from the pound 5.5 years ago. Shortly after adopting her I took her to 2 different vets because I knew something wasn't right--she would whine getting up and down, off the couch, out of the car, etc. The first vet said it was residual pain from her spay but the 2nd vet did xrays and she has severe hip dysplasia. They recommended putting her down that day. I was pregnant and hormonal and we decided we would do daily Rimadyl and see how she did, but if she was in pain we would euthanize. It's been 5.5 years and we only do Rimadyl when she is in pain, because of the chance of liver damage with constant dosing. She is now starting to get very stiff and having trouble moving around, and I'm afraid we might be on our last year with her.

The other dog has cancer again and her quality of life is really starting to decline. Just a couple days ago she piddled on the floor and was so upset . She is starting to lose weight and is shaking alot, etc.

[dbsam]

OP, I am sorry you, your dog, and your family are going through this. We have been dealing with something similar with one of our dogs. We have been able to avoid putting him down because we are able to revolve our lives around him and his needs and he is much smaller than your dog so we can carry him easily. I pray he will go in his sleep. Twice I’ve called the vet asking her to come out and euthanize Harry. But both times he rallied, he is such a fighter – tough and proud, and I didn’t think he or I was ready. My children are a little older than your son – they recently turned six – but I have told them we might need to put him to sleep. They see what he goes through and seem to understand. They are very sad and have cried about it. But they are also sad when he is suffering. My children, like most, are very sensitive when it comes to animals. My son is more like me and over-sensitive. (He worries about strays in bad weather, birds who hit windows, etc. They help me with the pet rescue I volunteer with so they might be too aware of the suffering of dogs and cats.) We are also vegetarian and they cannot comprehend killing animals for any reason. (They are l/o but I haven’t gone into the connection to the meat industry with them…they worry enough about animals.) Sorry I’m rambling, but basically I think explaining the situation to your son would be best. Since he is compassionate towards animals, most likely he will be aware of the suffering Emma is enduring and understand.

As a pp mentioned, it will probably come up for quite some time as he tries to understand and accept it. My children still mention, years later, the fact that hawks eat small animals. They saw a hawk picking up prey and it led to a discussion. It troubles them and they mention it often. But I think explaining in an age appropriate way and being open for future discussion is the best way to handle these difficult situations.

[SundayCrepes]

Thank you everyone for all your thoughts. It makes me sad that so many of us are facing the same hard choice.

To clarify, Emma is not yet having problems with peeing and pooping, though that is likely around the corner. Once we help her up she can get around on her own. Today, however, she could not uncurl her foot a couple of times and needed me to do it. That's what got me started on thinking about what to do with our son.

I actually have been preparing him for her death for a year. We really didn't think she'd live this long. Prednisone and a ramp made lots of difference. I think he's actually developed a deaf ear to, "Emma will die some day soon."

I talked with the vet tonight (I wanted to verify there is nothing else he can do for her worsening condition. There isn't.) I asked him about our son. He said he's gone to lots of talks about this. The lecturers he's heard have said 6 or 7 is the age at which to discuss euthanasia and when to allow the kids to view it. I'm not sure I agree with it, but if it would make him uncomfortable to have our son present I have to take that into consideration as well.

We just started our first chapter book with our son. "Little House in the Big Woods." The first chapter is about all kinds of animals that are being killed and butchered by the father. Quite a bit of detail. I had to edit pretty heavily as I read. I told my son a little of what was going on and how times were different back then. They didn't have grocery stores. The book's events got me thinking about what to do. Laura was just 4 years old when all this was happening and she dealt with it fairly matter of factly, though she did cover her ears when the hog was butchered.

So it would be best if poor old Emma just died in her sleep, though that seems unlikely.

Between talking with the vet and all the responses here, I just don't know what the best choice is. Thanks for all your thoughts. My best wishes for all the old pooches mentioned in this thread.

[cycle]

OP, I wish you peace with whatever you decide. I will not be having my ds be present when we do decide its time for our dog to be euthanized. At this point I am afraid it would be too traumatic for him, but he is younger I believe than your kids, he is 5. I hope the decision comes easily to you. (((hugs)))

[Sierra]

I too wish you peace in your decision -- whenever it is time to make it and whatever you decide -- and I am sorry about your dog.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes

So it would be best if poor old Emma just died in her sleep, though that seems unlikely.

You will know when it's time. As much as you won't want to, you'll know it's the right decision.

And your kids will be okay. This, too, is a part of life. We've been through numerous pets, my grandmother, 9-11 (we live close enough that we do know people who worked/died in the Towers as well as rescue workers who died there), parents of friends, etc.