entitlement?

[GatheringApples]

I know that children can be inherent self-interested, and that this can be normal and developmentally appropriate. But when does a sense of entitlement become ingrained in who they are as people, and follow them into adulthood? This applies to all my kids, who are all 11 and under.

Today, my 9-year-old had a full meltdown, in front of our new neighbours no less, because we won't take her on an international vacation "outside of North America!" this summer. We have five kids including a newborn. Me and my husband only traveled on a plane for the first time a few years ago.

I have noticed her comment about this vacation thing before, and we've explained to her that maybe in the future we can plan a "far away" trip, but right now it is too costly to do so. We offer alternatives like local camping, visiting the beach, etc. She cried and sobbed about this again today.

She also seems to really take for granted the material things she has, and doesn't care for her things. She always wants more and more and more and never has enough. I finally gave the kids a Nintendo Wii last year. Now they complain that they don't also have a Playstation .

I am planning to simplify the playroom tonight because I'm sick of toys being left everywhere, treated carelessly and getting broken or lost.

To what degree is this normal? How might I handle this?

I should note that we live in a more affluent area than I grew up in, and it is normal for children to take vacations every year, though I wouldn't say that most kids travel internationally on a regular basis. We are pretty average for our community: nicer cars, nice house, kids participatein a few activities, have clothes that they like, the kids have a video game system and MP3 players.

[LynnS6]

I don't think 9 is young enough to worry about a sense of entitlement becoming ingrained.

However, I do see from kids who grow up in more affluent areas that they do have a sense of entitlement. Everyone else has X, so why not us? Property values in our neighborhood have really gone up since we bought our house, and it's one thing I'm not too happy about. The families moving in have a lot more money than we do, and a lot more stuff.

The other thing to think about is what do your children have to earn? What do they have to do to help the family? I'm about to ramp up what our 9 year old needs to do around the house. He's going to have to help with dishes and a few more things around the house.

We also give our kids an allowance. It really helps teach them the value of money. This fall, ds is going to get a budget for clothes for school. He's got huge feet, so most of it will probably go toward shoes (he's into adult sizes).

Finally, do you hang out around people who share your values about material things? We do, both in terms of friends and in terms of our church. They see a lot of people who don't have the newest and the best all the time. I think it helps that our kids go to a Title I school, where 80%+ are on free and reduced lunch. They are highly privileged compared to most kids at their school, and I think they know it. Can you widen your circle a bit?

Could you get your kids involved in volunteering? I'm trying to find a way for my kids to do more of that. We contribute money and things, but I think my kids actually need to work serving others. I just have to find a way for us to be able to do that.

[LynnS6]

P.S. I suspect there was more going on to your 9 year old's tantrum than just not being able to go on an international vacation. Has anyone she knows gone a vacation like that recently? Any bullying in the neighborhood?

[meemee]

you know i feel not everything is a teachable moment you know. i really do believe in the philosophy.

there is a v. fine line between guiding and pushing and i always err on teh side of not pushing it at all.

all you can do is live your life and set an example.

do your kids go to an expensive private school? or even 'rich' public school?

i dont see anything wrong in wanting a playstation along with the wii. wii is just one type. playstation is another. soon they might want xbox.

my ex's family all lead a v. simple, almost vegetarian life yet ex was the one asking for all kinds of exotic things. exotic foods, exotic vacations. even for his bday he wanted lobster.... things his parents could not afford.

you can try to help and guide but i think some of them wanting more is a personality trait. always wanting the latest stuff.

i have noticed with my dd when toys get left around or broken its time to do what you are doing because there is indeed TOO much. its all the old stuff and nothing new - nothing newly challenging.

i think there is something underlying going on. if she is getting so upset i wonder what the underlying cause is.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

P.S. I suspect there was more going on to your 9 year old's tantrum than just not being able to go on an international vacation. Has anyone she knows gone a vacation like that recently? Any bullying in the neighborhood?

I, too, wonder if more is going on. I sat in my counselor office and cried last spring because my family can't go on a vacation to Hawaii and go windsurfing. Which sounds really nuts until you consider that I have a child with special needs, and the impact of her differences on our family break my heart. I envied the vacation someone else was planning because it stood for this huge thing in my life: "Things My Family Will Never Do Because My Daughter has Autism".

Originally Posted by GatheringApples

I am planning to simplify the playroom tonight because I'm sick of toys being left everywhere, treated carelessly and getting broken or lost.

To what degree is this normal? How might I handle this?

I think decluttering is the first step. The next is helpful jobs, which they need to do each day. This can include a family pick up time, which will put an end to the toys left every where.

My kids get $5 a week. $1 has to go to savings, $1 to charity, and the other $3 they can spend as they see fit. We use little envelopes to keep track of the money. Charity can be pretty much whatever they want it to be and one of my kids is saving up to join the world wildlife fund.

We also go around the dinner table every night and each say one thing we are grateful for.

I agree that this is harder in an area where most the families are pretty well off. We move a lot for DH's job and now opt to live beneath our means because it is just easier.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by meemee

you know i feel not everything is a teachable moment you know. ...

all you can do is live your life and set an example.

Not everything is a teachable moment: do you mean not every melt down needs to be responded to? I'm not sure what you mean.

I totally agree, live your life and set an example.

[sanguine_speed]

[Marsupialmom]

One thing I have notice with a lot of nine year old girls is they start getting hormones. Some normal stuff is uncontrollable. I found with my girls I could chart (predict) when we were going to have tears. I am not the only mom of daughters that notice this.

[GatheringApples]

Thanks for the feedback.

The kids are very much expected to make contributions to the household. When I say I'm tired of toys being left out, I mean tired of having to go back and ask over and over for them to be cleaned before they move on, having to go down two flights of stairs with the baby to "check" every.single.time. because they never actually clean up the first five times. I don't let them off the hook; they must clean up. It's the constant struggle to get there that is becoming ridiculous and that I hope to minimize by minimizing the toys.

They also have very regular tasks around the house. Every day they must put away their own laundry, and every day they have an after-dinner chore that they must do before they can do anything else.
They also each get an allowance, which is more than ample. They still have not been able to save their money for something. They just want to spend it to get things all the time. Nothing seems worth saving for because then they'd have to go without for a while. I even withhold part of their allowance as forced savings, and they can spend this after a substantial amount has accumulated. I thought the excitement of having a larger sum to choose a larger item would show them how saving a small amount would add up. But it hasn't panned out that way. Perhaps over more time.

I do think a lot of this has to do with neighbourhood. There are probably one or two kids my daughter feels envious of, one or two who do travel extensively and who perhaps have glamorized the idea. Perhaps it also has to do with feeling displaced with a(nother) new baby. Their friends do also have the latest and greatest toys and always see the latest movies at the theatre etc. We do extend ourselves more than we'd prefer in order to help them feel like they fit in with their peers in many regards. We are conscientious that they might begin to feel like outsiders among their peers if they never see the movie everyone is talking about, or never have the same toys. We try to strike a balance because we also do not think it's the right thing to do to always take them to every single movie that comes out, or spend thousands on video games and video game systems (or spend all that time on those systems!).

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by journeymom

Not everything is a teachable moment: do you mean not every melt down needs to be responded to? I'm not sure what you mean.

I totally agree, live your life and set an example.

I think what was meant is sometimes you just need to hug and sympathize not teach a lesson.

[lilyka]

I do think a since of entitlement is something you need to be pro active in fighting against. However, I think you are doing that just fine. Do they have every game system? no. Do they get vacations to Europe? No. Do they get every new outfit their heart desires? Every toy? are you going to go out and buy each of them a new car on their 16th birthday? Doesn't sound like it. Just keep reinforcing your values, talking to them when they are not in the middle of a melt down (save the lessons for later).

As for the things they desire....Find out where she wants to go and what she wants to do and why that place. let her day dream. or let her confide in you why this is so important. and maybe set some reasonable goals. How much allowance will she need to save to get a passport? what is your families vacation budget? Do other people in the family want to go on this trip? Is this something you can all work together to achieve? what sacrifices are the family willing to make (less toys, games for wii, giving up eating out etc everything you ask for is money away from expensive vacations. this is an important lesson. You can have something but it all comes at the price of something else. My friend family decided they really really wanted to go on a cruise. The girls, all three of them, agreed to give up ALL Christmas presents in favor of spending the money on a cruise. Normally this was a luxury the family could not afford but they decided it was worth sacrificing for. there is nothing wrong with your dd wanting a vacation out of the country. sounds lovely to me! But it is something she should not expect to just get for free along with all her other privileged and luxury. something has to give. )? Maybe you could start a jar labeled vacation/xbox/new car fund. add rummage sale money, a weekly savings, your kids can put in change and do extra chores for money in the jar. Working towards it will turn it into a goal reached rather than a spoiled sort of entitlement. They will learn the value of the desired object and in the end they still get the vacation/toy/whatever they want. they will also have to work together as a family to reach the goal.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom

I think what was meant is sometimes you just need to hug and sympathize not teach a lesson.

I can go for that.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by GatheringApples

I mean tired of having to go back and ask over and over for them to be cleaned before they move on, having to go down two flights of stairs with the baby to "check" every.single.time. because they never actually clean up the first five times.

tell them one time, then take action. Tell them once, and then when they don't pick up, you pick all the toys and put them into a box that goes to the garage for a week.

Then next time you tell them to pick up, they'll pick up.

Part of the problem is that you say the same thing over and over. That doesn't work. You're just teaching them to not listen.

They also each get an allowance, which is more than ample. They still have not been able to save their money for something. They just want to spend it to get things all the time.

If their allowance is "more than amble" then it is too much. Nothing is worth saving for because they don't need to.

We do extend ourselves more than we'd prefer in order to help them feel like they fit in with their peers in many regards.

It sounds like you feel like you should be able to do more for them. I'd lay money they pick up on that and agree with you. I suspect that if you made your peace with what you can comfortable provide for them and got really clear in your own head that it's enough, your DD would do better. She's picking up on your attitude.

You sound like a very fun family -- you spend time in nature together, they get to be in some activities, family time is important to you guys. Your kids have it really well -- even if your neighbors take more expensive vacations. There's no need to extend yourselves MORE. Your children are rich in ways that some of those other kids will envy their whole lives.

[sanguine_speed]

[GatheringApples]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

tell them one time, then take action. Tell them once, and then when they don't pick up, you pick all the toys and put them into a box that goes to the garage for a week.

Then next time you tell them to pick up, they'll pick up.

Part of the problem is that you say the same thing over and over. That doesn't work. You're just teaching them to not listen.



If their allowance is "more than amble" then it is too much. Nothing is worth saving for because they don't need to.



It sounds like you feel like you should be able to do more for them. I'd lay money they pick up on that and agree with you. I suspect that if you made your peace with what you can comfortable provide for them and got really clear in your own head that it's enough, your DD would do better. She's picking up on your attitude.

.

I think you've got me completely wrong. I don't wish we could do more for them. My reservation is value-related rather than means-related. I try and strike a balance between giving them things they enjoy and that their friends enjoy so they feel included amongst their peers, and on the other hand trying not to overindulge them. It's hard to maintain that balance when you do have the means to overindulge based on your own definition of it.

The allowance isn't huge; it's my version of more than ample .

[mrspineau]

I think that nine is still pretty young. In our house, the rule is that if you don't take care of your things, aren't a well behaved child, don't keep up good marks at school, and don't show an overall sense of responsibility that is age appropriate, then you aren't entitled to more thigs. If you do take care of your things (and that includes cleaning them up when you're done with them) and you are kind and well behaved, you try your hardest at school and you keep your responsibilities then you are entitled to what we are able to give. I think that it's okay to give your kids lots of things when you can afford to do so, without causing self entitlement. I think that only comes when there is no consequence for the behaviour, and gifts and presents and toys are given regardless of appreciation level.

[mumofboyz]

I have come up against similar issue as you, OP. We live in an affluent town where just about everybody packs up and leaves for the summer ... off to their second home, off to their own private island, off for a month in Europe (after spending February vacation in Bermuda and April vacation in Italy), etc. etc. etc. Yeah ... well we don't do any of that.

Now and then I hear a bit of a whine (it used to be much worse) and I take the moment to gently remind them that what they see around here ... this is not normal. This is not how most people live and that they are very blessed with the gifts they have been granted in life. I also take the next breath to remind them of the special things that we do: the epic hike we took up a nearby mountain; the nice picnic we shared at an outdoor sculpture park; the great afternoon we had swimming at a local water hole. I divert the negative energy on what we don't have and put it back on to something fun that we did do fairly recently. It seems to help transition their brain back to reality.

Sometimes it is hard to bite my tongue when I hear one boy whine about having to share a bathroom with his brother (they have their own bedrooms). Helllooooo? Growing up we had one toilet for 5 people; DH had to share a bedroom with 3 brothers; and yes I had to walk to school uphill both ways in the winter. Complaining that what they have is not enough just rubs me the wrong way sometimes.

As far as the allowance issue is concerned ... I don't give it. I haven't figured out a way to help my children learn the value of money but I don't see how giving them money just for existing teaches them anything. They have a number of jobs that I expect them to do during the week (tasks, timeline, consequences are clearly outlined and followed through on) and I do not pay them for those. We all live in this house. We all pitch in to make it a pleasant experience. Both boys also have specific jobs that they can do to earn money (lawn maintenance and babysitting) and if they want to earn more money, I have plenty of work to be done which will reap financial awards.

I don't know if that helps or not.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by journeymom

Not everything is a teachable moment: do you mean not every melt down needs to be responded to? I'm not sure what you mean.

i think we cant really 'teach' entitlement. we can act and follow our instincts but you cant teach the 'dont feel entitled' motto.

i know for myself the toys part. i have to continuously go thru and give away dd's toys. i dont think she is feeling entitled because she has them strewn around the house and not cleaning them up. what that says is that i have more than i need. sometimes its just a case of - dont wanna do it now, will do it later.
but most of teh time if they dont care if it gets broken they are saying - i dont really need the toy, its there i played with it, i dont really care about it anymore.

they have a few precious ones they like. i mean arent we careless about our things too? i know i am. i too sometimes have my things messy because i am sooo god darn tired to do them. eventually i will take care of them, but sometimes it takes longer than i thought.

so i think as parents we set by example, we make them aware of it, we DO rather than say and hope our children learn through it.

and yes. two things have had a great impact on dd's life. and taught her to look outside herself AND see that life is different for everyone. i didnt point it out or talk about it. i didnt teach. i just gave her the opportunity by taking her volunteering with me from when she was 4 - and she has a different take on life than other kids her age do. i KNOW that volunteering with homeless children, indigenous people, local farm, conservation and restoration efforts have taught her how to be sensitive about those things rather than me sitting down with a text book and talking about it or showing her a national geographic dvd.

i was just living my life not thinking i should volunteer so my dd can learn about these things. she came upon them as i lived my life my way. iykwim.

[velochic]

I read a book called "The Entitlement Free Child". IMO, it's worth the time to read it. I *do* think that you can, and in fact HAVE to teach your children to be entitlement-free in this over-consumeristic, over-materialistic modern-day society. While it's obviously important to teach them that thrice/year trips abroad is not something people are entitled to, I think it's also important to teach them about the small things. Things like having the option of 3 different fruits to eat after a meal is a HUGE privilege and, no, we can't go get ice cream from Dairy Queen every day instead. That*having* a vehicle is enough... it doesn't have to have separate DVD players for each of the 4 kids riding the back.

I think entitlement is SO much more complex than just wanting to travel abroad or not taking care of toys. At the heart of entitlement is thinking that one deserves something that others don't because they are somehow special for just existing. As trite as it may sound, I think teaching a child to live in harmony with fellow humans and treat nature respectfully is how to raise an entitlement-free child. ALL of parenting is by example. Entitlement-free is something that I think needs to be taught because outside of the home, they are just BOMBARDED with the opposite message.

[lilyka]

thanks for the book suggestion!!