Respectful ways to address excessive homework with the teacher - Page 3

[shanniesue2]

It's interesting... as a kindy teacher, I do not send home homework with my kids (the rare exception being if they didn't finish something in class b/c they were goofing around--and I don't do a lot of pencil/paper stuff anyway, so even that happens rarely). My personal philosophy is that I work really hard with them during the day and we get lots of learning done. They need to go home, be kids, and relax with their family. Plus, I work in a high poverty school and a lot of these families have enough on their plate without having to deal with homework, too.

The weird thing is that I always have parents every year ask me about why I'm not sending homework home for their kids. When I talked to one of my mamas this year about it, her response was, "well my nephew came here for kindy last year and he had lots of homework." I simply told her that it was not mandetory at the kindergarten level for teachers to assign homework and that some teacher did and some teachers didn't. My professional philosophy is no homework for kindergarteners.

[Sustainer]

It blows my mind that a parent would say "why aren't you giving my kindergartener homework?" That is just insane to me. I was even shocked and appalled when my first grader brought home homework. When I went to school I didn't get homework until third grade (and that's when I started hating school instead of loving it. No, not a coincidence.) We have even been told that when our child's teacher doesn't send home any homework on a particular day, we should still make our child sit down at the usual time and study, just to keep them in the habit. Um, yeah, I don't think we're going to be doing that. When she comes home without homework we're going to join hands and dance around the room singing "woohoo!" together. When did everyone become SO pro-homework?? This is not progress. A more advanced educational system would do the opposite. French schools don't assign homework and their students consistently outperform ours. I think the public school system is trying to turn our children into little worker bees, who will be used to having to do boring work all day long when they get to the work force.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by stik

OP, I agree that your dd has way too much homework for a fourth grader. However, I would encourage you *not* to skip out on all the math facts practice. Memorizing math facts makes it much easier to handle higher-level math in later grades. It's an age-appropriate emphasis for fourth grade, and it teaches study skills (repeating and reviewing to memorize).

Yes!! I'm seriously shocked at how many people consider math drills "busy work." No, it's not! Rote memorization is vital for mathematics. I know there's a tendency today to eschew anything that doesn't seem "fun," but I really think math drills are important. It worked for thousands of years before the modern education system took over, and the countries where drilling and rote memorization are emphasized are always the ones with the highest math scores.

It makes it more efficient. It removes the tedium, and allows the brain to focus on the logic of the math instead of the mechanics of the arithmetic.

My brother was never required to learn his multiplication tables, and it affects him still. He works part time in shipping and at a pizza place, and he seriously has no clue what 6x4 is or 3x5. Anything he does at work that requires him to have to multiply simple numbers in his head takes him forever. So it might not seem like a big deal if your 10th grader takes 20 minutes to do one algebra problem because she never learned her multiplication tables, but it CAN affect them as adults. I use basic math every day, I can't imagine how difficult it would be if i had to stop and think every time I needed to quickly add or multiply, etc.

[deadheadmomma]

Love this thread. Something I have been thinking about as my DS just turned 3 and my DH is already worried because he can't read yet , I keep telling him sooner doesn't mean better with reading . I do not want my DS to be buried under schoolwork when he starts. This is one of the main reasons I want to homeschool but don't know if we'll be able to afford it. We're going to look into private school, but only if they don't pile on the homework. Anyway - thanks to all of you who are pioneering the way towards less homework!!!

[mmgarda]

Thank you all

Gearing up for 4th grade and K this year. We relocated to NYC last summer and were SHOCKED at the amount of homework DS received as a 3rd grader. It was further complicated by the need for 2-3 books for each subject (district policy, trying to save money) and a requirement from the teacher for a separate notebook for each subject as well. We often spent 15-20 minutes just trying to figure out what went where. In addition, the teacher had a "Homework Wall of Shame" where the kids were publicly tracked in terms of who forgot or didn't turn in their homework. I protested VIGOROUSLY on that one and told DS flat-out that it was bull$#it and that we did not believe it to be 'shameful' in any way.

Now that we will have 2 kids at the school and are more established, I'm ready to take a more active stance on this issue. Much of the homework felt like busy work and much of our time was spent correcting sloppiness as other posters have said. I think hw for hw sake is ridiculous and I won't waste my time or my kids' time on it.

My guys are WAAAAAYYYY above grade level on pretty much everything and we insist on concentration and full-bore effort on what they do, so I only worry about the repercussions of skipping in terms of 'punishment' from the teacher. Never occurred to me that we could opt out, so I'll be exploring that!! Thanks for the suggestions!!

[junipermuse]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

Yes!! I'm seriously shocked at how many people consider math drills "busy work." No, it's not! Rote memorization is vital for mathematics. I know there's a tendency today to eschew anything that doesn't seem "fun," but I really think math drills are important. It worked for thousands of years before the modern education system took over, and the countries where drilling and rote memorization are emphasized are always the ones with the highest math scores.



My brother was never required to learn his multiplication tables, and it affects him still. He works part time in shipping and at a pizza place, and he seriously has no clue what 6x4 is or 3x5. Anything he does at work that requires him to have to multiply simple numbers in his head takes him forever. So it might not seem like a big deal if your 10th grader takes 20 minutes to do one algebra problem because she never learned her multiplication tables, but it CAN affect them as adults. I use basic math every day, I can't imagine how difficult it would be if i had to stop and think every time I needed to quickly add or multiply, etc.

Some people will have trouble remembering math facts no matter how much you drill them on it. And frankly I do find it is just busy work to sit and drill. I never was drilled on them and I know all my basic facts up to 10's. I think we were supposed to learn them at home with our parents back in the third grade. But my mother was not a big believer in homework and never practiced math facts (or spelling words for that matter) with me. She figured if it was useful, I'd learn it. I did fail a few timed tests at first, but eventually I was able to do them faster, and the only practice I had was those timed tests and of course as part of larger problems in my homework (like 345x59). I certainly didn't suffer from not being drilled on them. In the meantime I just counted them out on my fingers. I understood the concept of multiplication quite easily so I knew that for 5x8, I just had to count out 5 on my fingers 8 times. Yes it was slow at first but it didn't take long for them to stick in my brain.

[WorldsBestMom]

Now thats a tough question as then the teacher will tell you they give the homework for the benefit of your child. Maybe you could say to the teacher that you notice that in third grade the homework is a bit more. Thats a nice way of starting of a conversation.

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by junipermuse

I understood the concept of multiplication quite easily so I knew that for 5x8, I just had to count out 5 on my fingers 8 times.

That really just seems like creating a whole lot of unnecessary work for yourself. It's so much easier to just memorize that 8x5 is 40. It's an investment of time that pays for itself almost immediately, and then pays for itself many times over. At least memorize every other fact or something so that if you (I don't actually mean YOU) don't know what 8x5 is, you at least know that 7x5 is 35, and then you can just add 5 more to it. I can't imagine having to sit there and count to 5 eight times every time you need a multiple. If the idea is to save yourself busywork then it seems self-defeating.

[ecoteat]

I haven't read all the responses yet, but I'm alarmed by that amount of work! I used to teach 3rd grade and I would NEVER give that much work. 27 spelling words? What's the point? No kid really and truly learns and remembers 27 new words a week (minus however many they already knew). I've always loosely followed the 10 minutes per grade rule. I think 3rd graders should be getting no more than 30 minutes a night--total--and often less than that.

Scanning back through I see some comments about memorizing multiplication tables. I tell my kids (I teach middle school now) that by now they should not ever have to stop and think what a math fact is. When they see "8x5" I want them to think "40" automatically. Just like when they see the word "math" they just know what it says immediately--they don't have to sound it out. Math facts should be like sight words.

[KestrelDream]

My first grader is now doing busy work....writting out ten spelling words three times (and I've yet to see anything that teaches him HOW to write in the first place!) I told him just to do it twice. He also had a math sheet, a reading sheet, and some other stuff that is due tomorrow. Along with reading every night (which we do anyway), etc etc.

Ya know, if I wanted to do work with him, I would homeschool. I am so against homework. It burned me out bad when I was a kid.

This was his first homework assignment of the year. I don't know what I'm going to do. I think it is asinine to have homework in first grade. I think it's asinine to have homework period!! Ugh.

[amcal]

OP here

Just a quick update.

First, I never said I thought knowing her math facts wasn't important. I think they're incredibly important.

My point was that at this point, she has them memorized for the level she's at. So, to continue to practice them 15 minutes ever night is busy work.

I know they won't always be this easy and the time will come when she has to start practicing them again but, if I can eliminate some homework at this point, I'm going to try to do that.

I did meet with the teacher and she was fantastic. She agreed that busy work was not ok. She agreed to skip the flash cards and math facts - that DD knows them just fine and doesn't need the aditional practice at this point but, we both know the time will come when she will need it.

She also agreed that writing the spelling words 5x was busy work for DD. She agreed to the pre-test and then DD can write any word she misses 5x.

It was a great meeting. She explained that the standards from 2nd grade to 3rd grade jump up dramatically as does the homework. But, she said busy work is never ok and asked me to come to her with any issues. It was a great meeting.

[FedUpMom]

nice update

Lucky you for getting a good teacher. I hope you have a terrific year!

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by amcal

I never said I thought knowing her math facts wasn't important.

I think most of the posts in favor of memorizing the multiplication table (definitely mine) were in response to someone else in the thread.

I'm glad the teacher sounds so reasonable.

[amcal]

Originally Posted by Sustainer

I think most of the posts in favor of memorizing the multiplication table (definitely mine) were in response to someone else in the thread.

I'm glad the teacher sounds so reasonable.

Oh - good I thought people were thinking that because I was allowing my DD to skip her math fact practice that I didn't think it was important for her to know them.

I just wanted to make sure people knew that my concern was that I know she's going to have to know them and practice them and that will add additional time to an already heavy homework schedule.

Sigh.....homework.......I wish we would just go to a homework free policy but that's never going to happen.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by Sustainer

It blows my mind that a parent would say "why aren't you giving my kindergartener homework?" That is just insane to me. I was even shocked and appalled when my first grader brought home homework.

At the school where I teach we start at age 3, and have parents who complain that there's no homework in the Preschool class. A few parents have even told me that "well they had homework last year" (when they were 2), I just scratch my head at that -- what kind of homework do you give a 2 year old?

Sometimes we'll compromise a little and write suggestions such as "have your child teach the new song we learned at morning meeting this week" or "We're working on sorting, one way to support this is by having your preschooler help you sort their laundry out from the rest of the family" in a "home links" suggestion column in the newsletter, or we'll put a sticker on a child that says "ask me about my trip to the zoo!" That's as far as I'm willing to go, though.

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by amcal

Oh - good I thought people were thinking that because I was allowing my DD to skip her math fact practice that I didn't think it was important for her to know them.

No, we had a whole little side debate going.

Originally Posted by Momily

At the school where I teach we start at age 3, and have parents who complain that there's no homework in the Preschool class. A few parents have even told me that "well they had homework last year" (when they were 2), I just scratch my head at that -- what kind of homework do you give a 2 year old?

What the H***?? What is going on inside the craniums of these parents? And the teachers assigning homework to two year olds?

Originally Posted by Momily

or we'll put a sticker on a child that says "ask me about my trip to the zoo!" That's as far as I'm willing to go, though.

Thank goodness there are some sane people like you! I am really really bewildered by the wanting homework for 3 year olds thing. I don't even know what to say.