Babywise-Neoprimitivisitc?

[kalynnsmom]

I was curious about BW so I read it. It was horrible but I ran into something I've never heard of. Wondering if anyone had any insight??

Ezzo claims that AP is based on neoprimitivisitic school of child care and birth womb trauma, which is why mothers who are AP respond to every cry.

Does anyone have any info on this?

[Xerxella]

I think Ezzo has a reverse oedipal complex from a life of abject maternal neglect.

I know, I know.... Go ahead and delete me...

[Xerxella]

Seriously?!?!?

I googled "neoprimitivisitic school of child care" and it came up with absolutly nothing. I've never seen google come up with literally nothing, but it did.

I'd love to see others thoughts.

[ErinYay]

Unless he's talking about an obscure period of art, it's meaningless.

[ThisCat]

Originally Posted by Xerxella

I googled "neoprimitivisitic school of child care" and it came up with absolutly nothing. I've never seen google come up with literally nothing, but it did.

Well, I got something. This thread.

[ssh]

Yeah neo primitivism is an art period. Since AP is striving for a natural parenting style based on meeting the instinctive needs of infants maybe that's where he's getting his idea for the primitive part. Primitive peoples were AP. Sounds like he's making stuff up ....... I'm not really surprised.

[kalynnsmom]

I was reading it and I was thinking "WHAT in the WORLD is he even talking about?" :

[InMediasRes]

Sounds like some of the BS my DH makes up when he's pulling my leg.

[EdnaMarie]

"Primitive peoples were AP."

I think he coined the term because of people who say stuff like this.

FTR, I think that the above statement is completely untrue. There is massive diversity amongst pre-industrial and pre-agrarian societies. There remains a lot of diversity (some do not babywear, many do parent-led weaning, and many, many use corporal punishment). The defence (as per Dr. Sears) of certain attachment parenting practices as "primitive" (as if that were more "natural", i.e. less related to culture and more related to biology, presumably) is widespread. Logically, however, it's very weak.

I haven't read or checked out babywise--seems to be a waste of time.

However, I think that he's not far off-base about Dr. Sears' justification of AP, at least.

I personally hate the whole "primitive" thing. It's paternalistic, it's not accurate (it conflates natural, pre-industrial, and healthy), and it's misleading (because it implies that there is this culture of perfect parenting out there... or was... somewhere... that somehow, if you do everything right, you can have the perfect baby, which is bullcrap IMO).

So that is probably the ONLY thing Mr. Babywise and I agree on.

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

(because it implies that there is this culture of perfect parenting out there... or was... somewhere... that somehow, if you do everything right, you can have the perfect baby, which is bullcrap IMO).

AMEN! I do get tired of so many sources saying "the good old days". "If only we lived in simpler times"

There was a lot of bad/horrible stuff that happened in the "good old days" and while I can agree society should be way more AP, in my opinion, that doesn't mean everything old is rosy!

[kalynnsmom]

Found something from BW itself. It's a pdf file:
http://www.ezzotruth.com/downloads/H...s-Babywise.pdf

The last paragraph talks about how AP is another name for those theories.

[ErinYay]

I'd love to respond, but, due to copious amounts of eye-rolling, my eyeballs are now stuck to the top of their sockets, so typing is extremely difficult.

[azgirl]

Hmmm...I read through some of that PDF. Is what he describes as "AP" what you guys think of as "AP"? Is he wrong in his understanding and description of AP or just about the origins and consequence of "AP". Or both, or neither. I am really curious about everyone's thoughts on this...

[SaoirseC]

I think AP mammas "respond to every cry" because crying is the only powerful way an infant can communicate its needs, and being AP is all about trusting the infant and meeting her/his needs in an effort to establish trust.

Ezzo says what we wants because it suits his needs. I agree with another comment, "primitive" does not necessarily mean gentle or AP. There is a tribe of people (I think it's the !Kung) who nurse their babes until 3 or 4 years. They call the third/fourth year "the crying year" because that's the year the child weans. Well, the child weans because every time s/he asks to nurse, he's slapped. They also believe that colostrum is bad for the newborn, and feed the newborn a gruel instead. No culture is perfect.

[Tway]

Isn't AP a way of parenting that puts baby first and works for the whole family? Seems a lot more logical that one strict set of "rules" for everyone.

[kalynnsmom]

Originally Posted by SaoirseC

I think AP mammas "respond to every cry" because crying is the only powerful way an infant can communicate its needs, and being AP is all about trusting the infant and meeting her/his needs in an effort to establish trust.

Originally Posted by Tway

Isn't AP a way of parenting that puts baby first and works for the whole family? Seems a lot more logical that one strict set of "rules" for everyone.

Yeah, this is how I see AP. I respond to my baby's cries because crying is a way that they communicate, whether it be wanting to be held, a diaper change, watching for hunger cue, etc. I had no idea where he got the notion of "birth trauma" in regards to AP.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by ErinYay

I'd love to respond, but, due to copious amounts of eye-rolling, my eyeballs are now stuck to the top of their sockets, so typing is extremely difficult.

I don't think primitive is always a bad thing. That "style" of parenting helped the human race evolve, develop, and thrive for tens of thousands of years, so clearly it's not a negative thing!

There is a special place in Hades reserved for Mr. Ezzo.

[velochic]

I think it's pretty telling that there is not ONE SINGLE link returned by google regarding this. Not that google is the end-all and be-all of information, but if someone... ANYONE shared Mr. Ezzo's inane ideas, there would at least be some other article about it. Obviously he doesn't have a strong following regarding this. There's still hope for the human race.

[marinak1977]

Originally Posted by ErinYay

I'd love to respond, but, due to copious amounts of eye-rolling, my eyeballs are now stuck to the top of their sockets, so typing is extremely difficult.

[Ambystoma]

In evolutionary biology, primitive doesn't have negative connotations, so I was thinking "ok" to the 1st statement...then I realized it was meant to be snide. Better not call my favorite froggies primitive and mean it as less than!

Also to Ezzo, as always