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Eye Colour - Page 2

post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella99 View Post
Yup, eye color in redheads is linked to the same thing that actually causes the red hair.
And red hair is even more complicated than we used to think- it's now thought that certain alleles will bring out certain hues in redheads- darker auburn hair is impacted by brunette alleles, that beautiful coppery-fire color is from straight-up red genes, etc.

I'm one of 3 redheaded kids in our family- my brother's is much more pure, my sister's is more of a diluted strawberry blonde, and I have pretty regular red hair.

The baby's hair? We STILL don't know what color to call it! Her daddy was a bald-looking blonde til 2, then he was just blonde til 20ish. I was red from the get go- hers goes between blonde and light brown and reddish.

Whatever it is, she has a LOT of it for being so fair.
post #22 of 58
"There is also some linking with skin and hair color to eye colors, but that is way too complicated for me. However, the basic blue/green/brown system works for most people curious about possible children's colors (barring hazel and some grey colors). You won't know the specifics, but if you have blue and the father has blue, your kid will have blue almost 100% of the time."

Oh, don't get me wrong. I loved those little charts in eigth grade. It's just that I was taught that they were FACT. When I was an undergrad I read a William Carlos Williams book where the daughter has two blue eyed parents and is herself brown eyed. I held out that this is impossible because, by God, I had been taught that by Mr. S!
I seriously thought it was fact until I went to the genetic counselor with this baby.
And this is why my graduate degree is in literature.
post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2mygirl View Post
I went to see a genetic couselor when pregnant with my dd2. She said it was much more complicated than that. I was talking to her about the charts when learn in high school. You know, Dominant Domminant + Dominant Recessive can never be blue eyed. Or Recessive Recessive + Recessive Recessive always = blue. She said that just a really simplified version.
Yup. Eye color is a whole lot more complicated than that calculator suggests. It doesn't even account for hazel eyes at all! I have hazel eyes - pale blue or green (depends on who you ask) surrounding an amber (almost orange) starburst in the middle. DH has dark green/brown hazel eyes. DD1 has medium blue eyes surrounding a tan starburst, so I think that's considered hazel, since hazel just means the colors are hard to specify. DD2 is only 5 months, but her eyes are bright medium blue surrounding a pale blue starburst.
post #24 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecilia's Mama View Post
At 4.5 months Cecilia's eyes are pretty similar to mine in that they are a base color that shifts depending on what she's wearing or what mood she's in. Mine are green with a faint amount of blue, and can look bright blue, bright green, grey, even hazel-brown depending on the aforementioned factors. Cecilia's currently are a base grey color with the same mutable ability as mine. It will be interesting to see what base color they settle into, since I have green eyes and my husband has blue eyes with faint amounts of green (but his don't change like mine do).
Eye color really can't change based on your clothing or your mood. Eye color is determined by proteins made in the eye, and it doesn't happen fast enough to change when you change your shirt or get your feelings hurt. There is some belief that they may be able to change in relation to stress, since that can affect gene expression, but simple "I'm happy" or "I'm sad" just wouldn't do it.
post #25 of 58
My use of the word "changing" would be better described as "looks a certain way because of the surroundings." But changing is understood a lot more readily by most people and is easier to say. I certainly don't believe that my eyes are actually bright blue when they look that way, but they do come across like it.
post #26 of 58
Eye color can *appear* to change due to clothing or emotion, though. With clothing, certain colors will enhance or "bring out" surrounding colors, including eyes. The same goes for skin tone, hair color, etc. As for emotion, the pupil can contract or expand due to emotion, causing the color of the iris to look a little different, and the eye itself can expand and contract due to emotion, again changing how the iris is seen by others.

It's semantics, really. The iris isn't actually changing, but it looks like it is.
post #27 of 58
DS1's eyes are denim blue. DS2's eyes are green. Lizard green, I call it. They never appear to be blue or brown...they are very green, like an olive.

I don't know when his eyes turned, but in his 18mo portraits, they were definitely still bright blue from babyhood. I didn't get another set of "close-up" portraits of him until he was four, and they were green by then. All of the pics I have of him between 18mo and 4yo are not close enough to really see eye color.

My eyes are blue. DS1's father's eyes are blue. DS2's father's eyes are green.
post #28 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
My son who is nearly 5 colour has changed. It is like a sea foam green when it used to be a deep dark blue.
This is happening to my 8 1/2 year old. His eyes used to be the exact deep blue color of my brothers. They had identical eye coloring. Now, his eyes are starting to fade and take on a greenish tint. His father has green eyes so I'm not totally surprised but I am surprised that it is happening so late. His eyes as a baby were SO blue....and they just started changing in the last year or so.
post #29 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by octobermom View Post
I've heard it can take up to 6 years...
It can take a lifetime, actually. My dd is 8 and her eyes are still changing. At 6, they were VIBRANT blue. Now, they are turning more green. My sister is 50 and her eyes are still changing. They used to be more brown, but they're more green now... and she even has half of one iris that is blue. Yes, quite literally, half of the iris of one eye is blue, while the other half is brown.

The truth is... nobody knows. Not even the "experts". I don't think they've even identified all the genes that control eye color. We are brown/brown parents and dd has had blue or now-becoming-green eyes her whole almost-9-years.
post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinYay View Post
The iris isn't actually changing, but it looks like it is.
Umm... yeah it is... see my previous post.
post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
Umm... yeah it is... see my previous post.
I didn't say eye color couldn't change over time. Many people think eye color literally changes due to mood or clothing; it doesn't, but it looks like it does. I think it's something like 20% of all Caucasians can experience actual eye color change throughout life.
post #32 of 58
This is so interesting. My husband and I both have plain old blue eyes, and I assumed when our daughter was born that she would have to have blue eyes too. My 8th grade biology told me so

But here she is, green eyes. No question about it. It's a pale bluish green but definitely green, not at all the color of either of her parents.

We just chalked it up to her Irish grandmother and didn't think about it again so its interesting to find out that eye color is so much more nuanced than I had thought.

Also, to the original post, I think her eye color settled down around age 2 or so, but it's so hard to remember.

Miss Chris
post #33 of 58
Quote:
And red hair is even more complicated than we used to think- it's now thought that certain alleles will bring out certain hues in redheads- darker auburn hair is impacted by brunette alleles, that beautiful coppery-fire color is from straight-up red genes, etc.
Both my parents have brown hair, as does my older brother. My hair is red, somewhere between strawberry blonde and auburn.

Both of my husband's parents have brown hair and all four of the kids in his family have red hair. My SIL's hair is gorgeous and is a deep deep fiery red.

Our daughter's is red (not much of a choice there).

Anyway, nothing to do with eye color, but when they were doing the genome project they mapped the genes for red hair because there was this thought that genes that were involved with pigmentation were also involved in red hair and it could provide some answers regarding skin cancer and risk. Red Hair is caused by a mutation on Chromosome 16 having to do with the MC1R protein.

So the shade of red hair you have it also related to the mutation. You may have two recessive copies for red hair, but not necessarily that both have the MC1R mutation. If you have two mutated copies you end up with a true redhead, one mutated copy maybe either light strawberry blonde or brownish red.

It's completely fascinating and I wish I understood more about genetics.
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2mygirl View Post
Oh, don't get me wrong. I loved those little charts in eigth grade. It's just that I was taught that they were FACT. When I was an undergrad I read a William Carlos Williams book where the daughter has two blue eyed parents and is herself brown eyed. I held out that this is impossible because, by God, I had been taught that by Mr. S!
I seriously thought it was fact until I went to the genetic counselor with this baby.
And this is why my graduate degree is in literature.
Funny, sort of story about that kind of thing: my g-ma was a biology teacher and when she was teaching in the early 70s, those were taught as fact. (She still believes this, despite having hazel eyes herself ) One of her students asked her how it was possible that he had brown eyes with 2 blue-eyed parents and g-ma told him he was adopted or his mom was a cheater!! She also told my mom through her whole pregnancy that if my brother came out with anything but blue eyes they'd know he wasn't their grandkid ....yeah, my family is full of wackadoos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bella99 View Post
Anyway, nothing to do with eye color, but when they were doing the genome project they mapped the genes for red hair because there was this thought that genes that were involved with pigmentation were also involved in red hair and it could provide some answers regarding skin cancer and risk. Red Hair is caused by a mutation on Chromosome 16 having to do with the MC1R protein.

So the shade of red hair you have it also related to the mutation. You may have two recessive copies for red hair, but not necessarily that both have the MC1R mutation. If you have two mutated copies you end up with a true redhead, one mutated copy maybe either light strawberry blonde or brownish red.

It's completely fascinating and I wish I understood more about genetics.
That is really fascinating. Makes me want to learn more-especially as DS's hair is getting more and more strawberry colored.
post #35 of 58
Speaking of hair, I asked my high school biology teacher to explain why some people have white-blonde hair as babies but dark hair later. He had no answer for me. Being Asian and living in a community of mostly Asians and Pacific Islanders, it had probably never occurred to him that it happens.
post #36 of 58
Red-hair genetics are fascinating! Both of my grandmothers are redheads, so each of my parents carry it. Out of 5, 4 of us are redheads. (We joke to our other sister that the mailman must have been an awful nice guy.)

There have been some studies about redheads and opiate pain meds, anesthetic, and pain thresholds- really cool stuff.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic!
post #37 of 58
My son's eyes didn't settle down until he was 5, actually.


DH is Korean, Portuguese, and Welsh. His dad had black hair, his mom actually has brown hair (she's full Korean, and had been DYING it all these years, we only found out LAST year when she decided to go grey/white that she actually had brown hair), he has black hair (with a shock of white in the front that literally showed up overnight when he was 17...with black hair, white is obvious, it did not creep in, it was black at bedtime and WHITE in the morning). They all have/had brown eyes, DH's eyes are so dark that only Asian optometrists with mainly Asian clientele have been able to easily find his pupils...the eye docs with the mainly Caucasian practices just don't have the practice with nearly black eyes it seems.

I have dark blue eyes when my dad has ice blue and my mom had...sadly I'm not entirely sure. I think she had blue eyes, isn't that a HORRIBLE thing to forget about your own mother (crying to think of it)? But I think they were blue, a darker than my dad's. But in my dad's siblings, they either have brown or ICE blue eyes, no in betweens with the sibs! My brother got the ice blue. I've been told mine go grey/silver when I'm in certain moods, but usually they are dark blue. My hair is, meh, who knows? I call myself calico. Blond, brown, the occasional black hair, and a touch of red (especially when I'm in sea air). I have black eyebrows (and elsewhere eh hem) which got me accused of dying my eyebrows ('cuz that makes sense) when I was a preteen living in CA and having BLOND hair...the people who said this had known me since I was 6, so that was confusing. Grandfather had auburn hair, it turns out, but I didn't know this until family felt they had to tell me!

Which happened when...DH and I had Ronald McDonald. Bright ORANGE curly hair. With blue eyes. My dad tells me he said "uh oh" when he saw the baby pictures. Nice, dad. Honeymoon baby...dang, dad...


Slowly the blue turned to green...slowly that turned to hazel...slowly that turned to "hmm, his eyes match his hair, but his hair is red, so that doesn't work". I call them amber. Recently I've been more able to call them brown, but they do have a touch of, hmm, orange in them.

And his hair is different colors, too. The front is lighter (which is why I mentioned DH's shock of white hair...it's the exact same spot that went white on DH!) and is a brash copper color that glints in the sun like nothing I've ever seen. Like a copper roof or something. Then it's just red, but at his temples it can go almost blonde or strawberry. In the back, if that's all a person sees, they might think 'brown' if he's inside, but outdoors with sunshine it's a deep red.


Oh, and it doesn't stop there. He's naturally pale. But then he tans. Despite ample amounts of sunscreen (I burn like heck through ample amounts of sunscreen). He goes this lovely light golden color... DH will darken a couple shades inside of a week with walking to and from transit when it's sunny.


We get stopped a lot! Have been stopped like that since he was tiny. Not so pretty when he's along with DH. As a brand new father, DH had a lovely person say "it looks as though you STOLE that child", as DH held my purse, babysling, diaper bag, and baby, *outside the women's changing room* at JCPenney. And he heard someone on the balcony calling the police to report a man who didn't "match" any of the kids, as he played with DS in our apartment complex play area...he came back home quickly. The hardest part about that one is that our city was a very ethnically mixed, Korean, area, and there are LOTS of half and quarter Koreans in town, many many many of whom have reddish hair... Just not the place you'd think that parents needed to "match" their children, ya know?

Anyway, we have the genetics talk with strangers quite often!
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Speaking of hair, I asked my high school biology teacher to explain why some people have white-blonde hair as babies but dark hair later. He had no answer for me. Being Asian and living in a community of mostly Asians and Pacific Islanders, it had probably never occurred to him that it happens.
Interesting phenomenon, my brother had this. Toehead white-blonde hair the first year of his life, although dark brown eyes almost from day 1...his hair gradually got darker and by age 10 or so was very dark brown.

And my half-brother has strawberry blonde/orange hair although both parents have dark brown. He has a great-grandpa with red hair, though, so these things do just crop back up down the family line I guess.
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinYay View Post
Eye color can *appear* to change due to clothing or emotion, though. With clothing, certain colors will enhance or "bring out" surrounding colors, including eyes. The same goes for skin tone, hair color, etc. As for emotion, the pupil can contract or expand due to emotion, causing the color of the iris to look a little different, and the eye itself can expand and contract due to emotion, again changing how the iris is seen by others.

It's semantics, really. The iris isn't actually changing, but it looks like it is.
I understand all of that. It's just that when someone describes their own or their child's eyes specifically (specifically as in, "it happens to ME" vs. "it happens to everyone") as shifting, they aren't clearly describing a phenomenon that happens to everyone, as you're describing. EVERYONE's eyes will look different based on pupil size, skin tone (tanned/pale), make up, clothing, etc. That's not specific to any certain eye color or any particular person. It's just something that happens to all of us - well, actually to the people looking at us, since it's based on their perception of our eye color. Assigning this only to certain people is what confused me about her post, not her wording.

And you may be surprised how many people actually believe their eye color changes from day to day. For them, it is not an issue of semantics.
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Speaking of hair, I asked my high school biology teacher to explain why some people have white-blonde hair as babies but dark hair later. He had no answer for me. Being Asian and living in a community of mostly Asians and Pacific Islanders, it had probably never occurred to him that it happens.
I think the "how" of that one's actually pretty well understood. It's just an issue of turning on the genes responsible for hair color as a kid ages. I don't know that they know why they're "off" and then "on", but that's how it happens.
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