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Your thoughts on guns, please... - Page 6

post #101 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
My BIL has hundreds of guns in a room with a steel door and two main locks. It's his collection. I don't think he could tell you how many. He's always buying and selling them.
And there is a good chance he knows exactly how many he has. I don't know a single gun own in real life who couldn't tell you exactly how many guns they have.
post #102 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
Yeah, I don't get this - if someone breaks into my house, how am I going to find my dh's keys, get down to the basement, unlock the gun, and the trigger lock if I want the pistol, go to the ammo safe and unlock it, and load the gun?
I was a teen when this home invasion happened. It really opened my father's eyes. He had no time to get to ANYTHING. I hate to say it, but after that, he slept with a .38 (loaded) under his pillow. I'm the youngest and I was 15 at the time, so no problem with a youngster no knowing to not play with the "toy" under daddy's pillow.

The point is... if you want guns for protection, then they aren't safe for young ones because you can't have it both ways... safe from young curiosity and also accessible during an emergency.
post #103 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
And there is a good chance he knows exactly how many he has. I don't know a single gun own in real life who couldn't tell you exactly how many guns they have.
I agree. My Dad knows every single detail about all of his guns. So does his wife... including the last time fired and cleaned.
post #104 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I was a teen when this home invasion happened. It really opened my father's eyes. He had no time to get to ANYTHING. I hate to say it, but after that, he slept with a .38 (loaded) under his pillow. I'm the youngest and I was 15 at the time, so no problem with a youngster no knowing to not play with the "toy" under daddy's pillow.

The point is... if you want guns for protection, then they aren't safe for young ones because you can't have it both ways... safe from young curiosity and also accessible during an emergency.
Again, the biometric gun safes are ideal for families who want protection and have small kids, as they allow quick, silent access to a loaded firearm but are impossible for anyone but authorized persons to access.
post #105 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinYay View Post
Again, the biometric gun safes are ideal for families who want protection and have small kids, as they allow quick, silent access to a loaded firearm but are impossible for anyone but authorized persons to access.
Great, if you can get to them.
post #106 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
And there is a good chance he knows exactly how many he has. I don't know a single gun own in real life who couldn't tell you exactly how many guns they have.
I dunno... he doesn't have a database and his wife certainly doesn't know.
post #107 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by peainthepod View Post
I'll be interested to see your stats on that, since every source I've seen, including from the Justice Department and the FBI which compiles such stats, suggests that lawful gun owners have lower rates of committing all crimes, including domestic violence, across the board.
But don't you see? Your stat and my stat are not mutually exclusive. Lawful gun owners may have lower rates of committing all crimes... that doesn't mean at all that it isn't still true that if you have a lawful gun in your home at all, IF it gets used it's more likely it'll be used NOT in defending your home against a stranger crime, but against someone you know, either purposefully or accidentally.

Show me stats that say when you look at all the people who get shot by lawful gun owners/guns in homes that are lawfully owned, the majority of those people were strangers on the property in the midst of committing a crime.

I've never seen that stat, mainly because it doesn't exist. Because it's not true. Not even NRA tries to claim that that is true. If a lawful gun shoots any human, it is far more likely to be a family or friend or aquaintance than it is a stranger criminal trying to commit a crime.

Yes somehow it is the scenario of a stranger criminal that is hyped as who everyone needs guns to protect them from... despite the above fact.

That does not mean that somehow lawful gun owners are more likely to shoot family/friends than criminals are to shoot people, it's not saying that at all. It's just looking at the times when a lawful gun is used to shoot someone, who is that person statistically most likely to be? And it's not a home invader.

And though this isn't scientific, just think of the news. How often do you actually hear stories of people shooting home invaders/criminals on their property? It happens, not saying it doesn't, but it's nowhere near as common as stories of people shooting their exes, parents, friends in the midst of a fight, neighbors... and I'm talking about stories that confirm the gun was legally owned. Those stories happen all the time. Not scientific, but another indicator of what the crime and shooting stats do show.

I have a friend who's a cop and gun enthusiast, I've had this conversation with him many times (he's the first one to admit that yes, to the degree a legal gun is used on a person, it's most likely gonna be family or friends), but I'll ask for his help in sources cuz I doubt I'll have time to search the net for where I've already read these stats.
post #108 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
Great, if you can get to them.
Of course. Mast people who have firearms for protection have them where they feel the most vulnerable, like your dad, and just want them in the bedroom.

Short of wearing a hip holster constantly (which some people choose to do), getting to anything in an emergency- a firearm, the phone, a blunt object- is unlikely unless you have a plan in effect.

It's probably a really weird thing to do, but DH and I basically have "emergency plans" for all rooms of our house in the event of fire, a break-in, etc. I'm mean, we don't have drills or anything, but it's basically just a fire escape plan- "If the fire/bad guy is coming in through x window, I can get out through z door and y door."

Watch enough zombie movies and you take a slightly more paranoid view towards home security.
post #109 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
I dunno... he doesn't have a database and his wife certainly doesn't know.
You don't need a database to know...
post #110 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
I find it interesting reading these posts - I never really worry about my kids finding a gun in someone's home. And we have guns, because my husband hunts and shoots competitively.

But it's illegal not to lock them up, with ammunition locked up separately. But I think this seems like a cultural thing to me - I just don't expect guns to ever be where kids could get them.
Very very different scenario - and culture IMO in the States.
When I lived there as a highschool student I encountered guns in a number of situations where they would have been accessible to a child. Freaked the ahem out of me.
Karen
post #111 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
It isn't actually the case that it doesn't take much skill to use a gun. Pistol shooting in particular is difficult.
So why are there so many accidental deaths?
post #112 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
Karen, it was not so long ago that there were several national stories in the news with people who decapitated others with swords and long knives--one in a university building, one in full view of others on a bus.
I don't live in the US so I'm not familiar with these stories.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
Are you saying that play is only creative to you if it as a prolonged death scene that involves prolonged self defense before the inevitable? Most play sword fights (including lightsabers) I have seen do involve someone/something dying at the end, generally after many slashes and strikes. The kids might have more time to negotiate, I guess. I'm not really sure my adult mind really is more comfortable with death by sword. Decapitation seems rather painful considering that most people can't do it cleanly, and a piercing wound is immensely painful no matter by what implement. And since you mentioned fencing, you know that from the sport perspective, the results at the higher levels happen in "bang you're dead" speed many times.
No I'm saying that in my experience watching my kids, their friends, and in the park sword play rarely leads to any kind of death in the game unlike gun play which only ever seems to lead to swift death of almost everyone and everything in their path and little else. And that in our current culture guns are far more dangerous, glamourized, and accessible. They are instruments of war, death and power in ways that swords are just not. It may be silly to you but I see clear reasons for the distinction.

And as a side note - could we please stop calling ideas we disagree with silly and ridiculous. How does that advance respectful conversation at all? Can we not disagree without that kind of condescension?
post #113 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post
I don't live in the US so I'm not familiar with these stories.
Just FYI the bus decapitation was Canadian - it happened on a bus en route from Edmonton to Winnipeg, or the other way around, I can't remember.
post #114 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post
So why are there so many accidental deaths?
I don't understand what you mean? Do you mean accidents with guns?
post #115 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post
So why are there so many accidental deaths?
While one is too many, there really aren't "so many."

Here's the breakdown (which include suicide and homicide):


Quote:
The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:
214 unintentional
1,078 suicides
1,990 homicides
83 for which the intent could not be determined
20 due to legal intervention

Of the total firearms-related deaths:
73 were of children under five years old
416 were children 5-14 years old
2,896 were 15-19 years old
So, really, when you look at the numbers, we're all debating the wrong thing. Tiny guys don't seem to be confusing real guns with toys, but the older kids sure don't have the proper skills, fear, or respect of firearms.

Compare those numbers to those of drowning. One of the authors of Freakonomics established that, yes, swimming pools kill more kids than guns.

Quote:
on average, if you both own a gun and have a swimming pool in the backyard, the swimming pool is about 100 times more likely to kill a child than the gun is.
post #116 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post
Just FYI the bus decapitation was Canadian - it happened on a bus en route from Edmonton to Winnipeg, or the other way around, I can't remember.
Warning: The story is disturbing and upsetting. Be cautious about clicking.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...anscanada.html
post #117 of 163
FTR: Guns for protection is pretty much a non-issue in Canada. Very few violent crimes are committed with guns here. You'd have the advantage if you have something heavy you can throw...
post #118 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
I don't understand what you mean? Do you mean accidents with guns?
yes accidental deaths from firearms.
A friend of mine when we were 10 managed to pick up a bb gun and shoot another friend in the head with it. She was maybe 75 feet away.
He'd never picked up a gun before.
Skillful shooting needs skill. But anyone can pick up a gun and fire it and have a good chance of doing some damage.
post #119 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinYay View Post

Compare those numbers to those of drowning. One of the authors of Freakanomics established that, yes, swimming pools kill more kids than guns.
Yes but swimming pools serve another function besides intended death which is the sole purpose of a gun.
post #120 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinYay View Post
Watch enough zombie movies and you take a slightly more paranoid view towards home security.
I just had to . I thought I was the only one who thought this way.
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