HELP!!! What are we doing wrong, here?

[rachie]

It's 7:25am - I'm just about in tears - SO, SO frustrated - I put the baby down after she nursed, kissed her and tried not to be mad at her (poor little innocent baby!).

I just don't understand WHY she's doing this/what is causing it!!!!

She WAS "tongue tied" - we had a specialist ped "clip-clip" and things were going MUCH better until...... two days ago she's back to almost how she was before all that!!!

She opens wide, I bring her to the breast then one of a few things happen:

1. Lately she's not "latching" - she is put to the breast and "waits" for a second then SUCKS IN MY NIPPLE!! That one is obvious - break suction and try again.

2. She latches and it LOOKS PERFECT - lots of areola on top, she's got her mouth open a good inch or MORE BUT.....
a. In reality she's PINCHING my nipple somehow!
b. When I take her off nipple is white and obviously she has not had
hardly, if any, areola in her mouth at all!!!!!

I have such a difficult time figuring out if she's even on right because it looks like such a great latch and doesn't initially hurt 'til halfway or more through the feeding - then I'm afraid sometimes (trying hard to empty breast because - yes - "lucky me" I got to experience the "wonderful" body aches and chills associated with mastitis a few days ago!) that she's too sleepy and won't re-latch and finish emptying the breast.

I'm wondering if she's using her tongue in some odd way that latches to the nipple only??? I've got her in football hold, cradle, cross cradle - nothing makes any difference. This is my THIRD child (oldest is 4, next almost 2) to have this type of issue! I've been in the lactation office five times - baby is two weeks today. Lactation consultants all say "latch looks wonderful" - then my nipple is white and they don't know what to tell me. I do NOT want to pack up my dh and three kids to drive the 1/2 hour to see the lactation consultant AGAIN. But do I have to? What else could it be/could I try????

[Casha'sMommy]

I don't have any ideas but did want to tell you about my experience with dd with a tongue tie.
We chose not to clip and did have quite the set of challenges with her latch. While things were tough going during the first month or so things did improve and she became a champion nursling. She was the fattest baby I had ever seen.
You're working so hard to get this firgured out. Be sure you're patting yourself on the back and give you and your lo the praise you both deserve for working so hard.

[rachie]

thanks

Originally Posted by Casha'sMommy

I don't have any ideas but did want to tell you about my experience with dd with a tongue tie.
We chose not to clip and did have quite the set of challenges with her latch. While things were tough going during the first month or so things did improve and she became a champion nursling. She was the fattest baby I had ever seen.
You're working so hard to get this firgured out. Be sure you're patting yourself on the back and give you and your lo the praise you both deserve for working so hard.

Thank you for the encouragement. I am trying very hard and trying to remember - my baby really is trying hard too. She has no clue why Mommy keeps taking her off and re-latching her over and over and over. She's been so patient through it - even when I'm frustrated. I feel SO horrible when I start to feel frustrated WITH her (because I shouldn't be - it's not her fault) instead of just at the problem. I had to just set her down this morning for a bit and take a little break and remind myself that we're BOTH frustrated with this situation!

[Ruby2]

Rachie - as this is your third child and I only have one, you probably know a LOT more than I do about this, but I wanted to share my experience just in case it can help.

My dd did not have tongue tie, but I had all of the same problems that you're describing. Everyone was completely stumped, until I found some info on this site about Raynaud's phenomenon of the nipple. Here's a link: http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/113/4/e360

I was in SO much pain - crying through every nursing. It was horrible. I got a prescription for the Raynaud's that helped increase circulation in my nipples (not ideal, but it saved breastfeeding for me), and it probably improved nursing by about 75%, enough for me to make it for another month or so until dd's mouth was bigger and her latch didn't squeeze my nipple as much. Warmer weather also help a lot. If it is Raynaud's that's bothering you, keeping your nipples warm will help too (I put hunter's hand warming pads in my bra and it gave me some relief).

[Youngfrankenstein]

Just remember, it's not about how the latch looks necessarily. It's weather no one is in pain and baby is getting milk. Can you hear her suck and swallow? Is she pooping enough? Is it relatively comfortable for you? Is she gaining?

[rhiOrion]

My DD's latch looked great (occasionally had to pull her bottom lip out for her, but otherwise perfect). But I was in pain. My nipples were bruised. It felt like she was just chomping on my nipple and lapping the milk up. But she was gaining weight just fine.

The LC I talked to said she was not sticking her tongue forward, and gave us some exercises to do. I could never figure out if I was doing them right.

I took her to a chiropractor several times and that helped for a while.

But ultimately what helped was time. As she grew older and her mouth got bigger her "latch" got way better!

[katelove]

Ugh, I know how you feel. Latch looks perfect but I am in *constant* pain and my nipple is white and misshappen when she comes off. A speech pathologist friend of mine assessed her and she is bunching her tongue at the back of her mouth, not pushing it forward. This pushes the nipple forward and it gets squashed against the hard palate. Would you be able to see an LC or speech pathologist to find out if this is what is happening with your LO?

RhiOrion, sounds like our babies have/had similar issues? I am struggling with the exercises too. How old was your babe when things got better?

[rachie]

probably

Originally Posted by katelove

Ugh, I know how you feel. Latch looks perfect but I am in *constant* pain and my nipple is white and misshappen when she comes off. A speech pathologist friend of mine assessed her and she is bunching her tongue at the back of her mouth, not pushing it forward. This pushes the nipple forward and it gets squashed against the hard palate. Would you be able to see an LC or speech pathologist to find out if this is what is happening with your LO?

Yep - white nipples and misshape (sometimes "lipstick" but other times almost square like at the base - weird - I think something she must be doing with her tongue). I think mine is possibly bunching her tongue and not pushing it forward but I guess I'll see if they can figure it out tomorrow - just hope I can get through a few more feedings tonight and early morning before our appointment at 8:30am.

A lady tried to give me advise over the phone - aiming the nipple for her nose - that just results in her not getting all my nipple in her mouth (I'm probably not doing it right). I think I need them to see what I'm doing and what baby is doing and I need to see how I'm supposed to do it!!

[Heba]

Might this latching technique be worth a try? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tahT7sShW-I

You might also like to try "laid-back" (baby on top) nursing, which capitalises on baby's latching instincts, and can help bring the tongue forward. See www.biologicalnurturing.com .

Good luck - please let us know how you get on at your appointment!

[Heba]

Oh, and the possibility of cranial treatment might be something to discuss with the LC (who I assume will also do an assessment of whether the tt division was complete and hasn't "grown back" - which is very rare but has been known to happen).

[love2mother]

I agree- it could possible be Raynaud's syndrome. Also agree that if the baby is gaining, seems content at end of feed, has enough pees and poos then the latch is fine! (as long is it's not painful for you).

[womenswisdom]

I had a client a couple weeks ago who had a tongue-tied baby who had that fixed in the hospital. Afterward, latch looked great, but still really painful for mom. She's seen a craniosacral therapist a couple times on the advice of the LC and said she's seen much improvement. Maybe that's an option for you?

[Casha'sMommy]

rachie-What happend at the appointment? How are things going?