Jay Gordon nw plan updated not getting any sleep please help!

[Thing1Thing2]

I am in the process of night-weaning my 26 month old. I could really use the sleep and I'm also trying to get pregnant again.

Surprisingly its been going well. He hasn't nursed in 3 nights and has only given me a little whimpering and fussing.

I'm trying to follow Jay Gordon's method, and I just noticed I haven't been following one of the points. It says I am supposed to let DS fall back asleep on his own. I can't believe I totally missed it and I have been rocking him back to sleep and then laying him down. Problem is, I don't think he would go back to sleep on his own without nursing and he has always pulled away from the breast on his own to drift off to sleep when he is done nursing.

Any ideas on where to go from here? I have done three nights of not nursing at all for at least 7 hours. I'm supposed to move on to just rubbing his back or talking to him to get him to fall back asleep. With my DS as soon as he wakes up, he wants to "play". And He will not go back to sleep if I don't rock him.

I don't mind hearing your ideas or what has worked for you.. even if it's something other than Jay Gordon...

Please help! I want this to work out for us so badly.

[lifeguard]

I didn't do that part of the program. Ds does not fall asleep on his own & just gets more & more awake until he's up for 3+ hours. I'd much rather spend the time cuddling him back down. Now, that said, once he accepted that we weren't nursing anymore in the night he stopped waking up as frequently - if dc was still waking up as frequently but not nursing I suppose the nightweaning is not actually getting you any more sleep.

[Thing1Thing2]

Lifeguard, you said that your DC "accepted" that you don't nurse at night anymore. About how long do you think it took your DS to get to that place?

I don't think my DS has accepted it yet. He still gets up asking for nah nahs and whimpers, whines and tries to get into my shirt.

Right now that happens about twice during the night, but it usually takes anywhere from 30 -45 minutes to get him back to sleep. Last night was different, he went to sleep faster and with less rocking. I'm thinking maybe if I slowly rock less and less, eventually he won't need anything put the pat and talking to get him to fall asleep.

[lifeguard]

We nightweaned when ds was about 14 months. We did while dh was on vacation 'cause I expected it to be rough. We introduced a sippy cup of water at night so when he woke up I'd offer the waterbottle instead. He was usually unhappy about it but once he would take it (sometimes took a few minutes of offering) he'd drink a bunch & then go back to sleep fairly easily. After about a two weeks of that we found he reduced his night wakings from every 2-3 hours to at least one 5-6 hour stretch which really was my goal.

It also really helped to have dh deal with him sometimes 'cause obviously nursing was out of the question then.

Now at 22 months I nurse whenever he wakes up in the night, regardless of time, but he rarely wakes more than once & most of the time it is in the early morning anyway.

[spirit4ever]

I can't remember exactly how it happened, a few months ago I said that there was no more num nums until the morning, and often she nurses to get sleepy but not totally asleep. I'm pretty strict about my sleep at night, so there were a few nights where some crying was going on, but she was in bed right beside me, she was just angry.

We were able to go from about 9ish to 4:30, but the 4:30 nursing lasted FOREVER, like 2 hours, which was killing me, so I plugged in a night light on a timer a few nights ago, and explained that there are no num nums till the light goes on, cause they are still sleeping!

Works like a charm, i think in the past week only one morning where she got upset, but now when she asks (at 4:30!) i ask her if the light is on! she says no, so I say to go back to sleep, its not time for num nums, and often she does!

she's cute though, the excitement that comes when that night light finally does go on!!!!!

[Thing1Thing2]

Originally Posted by lifeguard

We nightweaned when ds was about 14 months. We did while dh was on vacation 'cause I expected it to be rough. We introduced a sippy cup of water at night so when he woke up I'd offer the waterbottle instead. .

Ooh great idea I'm gonna get a water bottle and put it by the bed tonight!

Originally Posted by spirit4ever

We were able to go from about 9ish to 4:30, but the 4:30 nursing lasted FOREVER, like 2 hours, which was killing me, so I plugged in a night light on a timer a few nights ago, and explained that there are no num nums till the light goes on, cause they are still sleeping!

Works like a charm, i think in the past week only one morning where she got upset, but now when she asks (at 4:30!) i ask her if the light is on! she says no, so I say to go back to sleep, its not time for num nums, and often she does!

she's cute though, the excitement that comes when that night light finally does go on!!!!!

How cute when they can understand and get excited about things like that!

And DS has the 2 hour nursing session in the morning as well. I figure it's because I'm telling him all night "no nah nahs until Mr. Sun comes out" and he's looking forward to it so badly, he tries to nurse as much as he can while the sun is out. We have a nightlight too, but I only leave that on at night to nurse him to sleep - then it goes off. I told him when it's on at night then we can nurse because I didn't think he would understand me telling him "we don't nurse when the moon is out" and then nursing him to sleep while the moon is out KWIM? So I leave it on until he falls asleep.

Great idea about getting one with a timer... I'm going to look into that and possibly use one when he is waking up less at night - that could be the next phase!

Thanks Ladies

[Altair]

I used nightweaning Dr Jay Gordon's way in combination with NCSS ideas, to gently wean myself out of the falling asleep process. I LOVED her section on transitioning from co-sleeping to crib sleeping (even though we didn't fully transition) and it took about a month total to do it in small, small baby steps... but it worked and he sleeps all night now.

So yea, I'd go from rocking to something a little less intense, and when he's fine with that for a few nights, go down to something else, until eventually you're down to just a "lay down, go night night" and he does it by himself, or whatever it is you want to do.

[Thing1Thing2]

Originally Posted by Altair

So yea, I'd go from rocking to something a little less intense, and when he's fine with that for a few nights, go down to something else, until eventually you're down to just a "lay down, go night night" and he does it by himself, or whatever it is you want to do.

Did this last night and he went right out. In fact, he only woke up once last night and he knew there would be no nursing. I didn't even have to tell him "we don't nurse when Mr Moon is out". So yay its working!!!

I don't feel like a zombie anymore. I can't believe I went through 2 years of this - but I know he wouldn't have been ready any earlier.

[lifeguard]

That's great! I agree that it's all about timing - when we time things right they can go so smoothly.

[Thing1Thing2]

UPDATE please help!

Anyone know why a recently night weaned child would stay up really late even though he is tired? He still wakes up at night asking for nah nahs. But lately he goes to bed at 12 each night and wakes up at 6:30am. I can't believe he isn't tired, yet here he is playing and I'm ready to drop because he was up 3 times last night asking to nurse.

Im so sleep deprived Im not sure if I should just count my losses and throw in the towel. But I need him to night wean because I haven't slept in 2 years and it's causing depression.... so I have to keep going with this.

It's been 7 days since starting to night wean... should this be happening?

Maybe he thinks if he goes to sleep later he will get to nurse more? Or maybe he is truly hungry at night and he hates going to sleep now. Oh I don't know what to think...

Please help, Im such a zombie it's not even funny...

[Altair]

The "sleep begets sleep" rule has always worked really well for us. What's his nap schedule like? An hour nap around noon helps my son go to bed by 7-8PM. For some kids, going with the flow with naps and bedtimes just makes things worse and a little bit of structure helps to regulate their sleep.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Is he hungry? My ds will stay up super late if he's hungry - so sometimes I'll give him a snack right before bed (I know, bad habit) so that he can fall asleep - since you can't fall asleep hungry!

[Thing1Thing2]

Originally Posted by Altair

The "sleep begets sleep" rule has always worked really well for us. What's his nap schedule like? An hour nap around noon helps my son go to bed by 7-8PM. For some kids, going with the flow with naps and bedtimes just makes things worse and a little bit of structure helps to regulate their sleep.

He usually has a great nap and sleep schedule. He usually goes to bed in between 8pm and 9:30pm. Tells us when he's tired and falls asleep quickly. Will sleep until 8am and then has a 2 hour nap from 12-2pm.

Since night weaning, he will wake up at 6ish and fight his nap all afternoon until 1:30. Then he will sleep 2 hours and fight sleep all night until 12pm. PAst 3 nights, he wakes up crying at 1:30am, 3am, 4:30 am and then at 6.

Sleep begets sleep, but I can't get him to sleep in the first place so we can get more sleep.

Originally Posted by thyra

Is he hungry? My ds will stay up super late if he's hungry - so sometimes I'll give him a snack right before bed (I know, bad habit) so that he can fall asleep - since you can't fall asleep hungry!

That's a real possibility since I think my DS used to get alot of his calories at night. I'm not sure though, because I was sleeping as he was nursing - so theres no way to tell exactly how much he was getting. He wants to play all day and doesn't really take time to eat. I have to follow him around with forkfulls of food and hope he eats a normal amount. But then, I'm not sure what would be a normal amount would be for him when he is not nursing all night.

Yesterday he hardly ate anything all day, but at 11pm he had a full plate of dinner that he wouldn't touch at dinnertime. He ate half of a large sweet potato, a cup of quinoa, and 7 stalks of broccoli. Then he went to bed an hour later and still woke up all night.

Maybe I should try keeping him fed really well all day and see if that works. For breakfast he had the whites of 5 eggs (doesn't like the yolks), half of a yogurt with flaxseed and breastmilk. He is taking his nap now, so he will have lunch when he wakes up.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Yeah, I would try to keep him well fed all day - cause thats a great meal, but its not a full day's worth of food I would bet.

The only way I can get my ds to eat is for me to sit and eat, and then he wants some, so I put him in his high chair. I stopped following him around with forkful's of food cause it just didn't work for us.

[Altair]

Giving some cows milk throughout the day when we nightweaned helped us too, and yes, making sure he was getting enough calories during the day by making each meal full of good fats and protein. He upped his dairy intake in general then.

With the waking up more, I would honestly push through it and I would sleep on the couch and have Daddy do it. Having the breasts there but not an option is just too tempting. Once I left the room it only took a few nights. NCSS takes really committing to it and following through even if you temporarily get less sleep.

I also had cut down nightweaning in two steps-- first going from 7PM to 12AM to 5AM, then 7PM to 5AM. If he wakes anytime after 5 he comes in our bed nurses and goes back to sleep. Does he not fall back asleep after nursing now when he wakes up early?

[Thing1Thing2]

Originally Posted by Altair

Giving some cows milk throughout the day when we nightweaned helped us too, and yes, making sure he was getting enough calories during the day by making each meal full of good fats and protein. He upped his dairy intake in general then.

With the waking up more, I would honestly push through it and I would sleep on the couch and have Daddy do it. Having the breasts there but not an option is just too tempting. Once I left the room it only took a few nights. NCSS takes really committing to it and following through even if you temporarily get less sleep.

I also had cut down nightweaning in two steps-- first going from 7PM to 12AM to 5AM, then 7PM to 5AM. If he wakes anytime after 5 he comes in our bed nurses and goes back to sleep. Does he not fall back asleep after nursing now when he wakes up early?

DS has allergies, and his food choices are limited. He seems to like coconut milk, but I know that it may not have all the properties of cows milk. Yesterday I fed him all day. I was practically running around feeding him every thing I could get into him. He still got up twice during the night. He wasn't crying as much as the nights before, so maybe the extra food helped. Today, we had a guest, so I'm not sure I did such a thorough job of making sure he was stuffed full. I guess I will find out tonight.

I have been feeling like I should "push " through it. I feel like DS has gone through the worst part and now maybe it will get easier. But DH thinks I should give myself a break. And DH would never stay up with DS. never. And I'm sure DH needs the sleep too. He has to go to work in the morning and he has been tired. No where near as tired and frustrated as I am, but he has a much lower threshold since *I* have been the one up with him for the past 26 months. - I would be giving myself a break if I kept with this and DS wasn't nursing at night....

Last night, I gave in at 3:30. He went to bed at 12am, woke up at 1:30 and 3:00 and then again at 3:30. I was so tired at that point I let him nurse. Then he nursed all morning until I couldn't bear the feeling like I was going to jump out of my skin.

Also, I think nightweaning may be bad timing on my part. He is now getting his top molars in and I probably should have seen it coming. But seriously I am so tired I'm ready to cry. And now I suddenly get this crawling feeling when he nurses that drives me crazy. It's 12:30 right now and he is still up.

About not falling back to sleep when he wakes up early - it's on and off. Sometimes he will wake up at 6:30 to nurse and then try to pinch my other breast, switching sides constantly and I can't take it. When I tell him "no" is when he wakes up. I can take the nursing at 6:30am, but not the pinching.

It's 12:35 and he seems to be falling asleep here while I type this. I almost don't want to go to sleep if he's going to wake me in 2 hours...

[Altair]

Well, honestly, the nightweaning only worked for us when it was combined with NCSS weaning away my presence and with a lot of Daddy's help. We both work full time so it made for some very, very sleepy weeks.

[Thing1Thing2]

Thanks. I'm going to try again at a better time. It's just not working right now.

[MrsBone]

Originally Posted by BonnieNova

Thanks. I'm going to try again at a better time. It's just not working right now.

DH gets up before 5 every morning and sometimes doesn't get home until 9:30 at night, depending on the day, so for me to ask him to get up with the babe seems unfair since he's constantly lacking sleep anyway. Nightweaning is probably going to have to be all me as well! I plan to start trying when DS turns 2. I wish I had advice! I just wanted to post and tell you that I know how you feel. DS is 20 months right now.