ARGH! He's seriously going to drag this out, isn't he?

[StephandOwen]

Currently my lawyer and ex/ex's lawyer are supposed to be working out an agreement for visitation. I have pretty much removed myself from the situation (don't need the stress) and basically told my lawyer that I will not agree to anything other than ex coming here to Kentucky in August or September for a visit. If he refuses, we'll go back to court.

The lawyers have been dealing with this for almost 5 weeks now. So far, nothing. Ex is refusing to agree to visiting ds here.

The reason I'm being such a hard-a$$ about this is because here's the breakdown-

October 2009- I brought ds back to Michigan for a 3 day weekend. Ex saw ds one of those days for 3 hours. He skipped the other 2 days.

November 2009- I brought ds back to Michigan for a 3 day weekend. Ex refused to see ds at all.

December 2009- I brought ds back to Michigan for a 3 day weekend. Ex refused to see ds at all.

March 2010- I brought ds back to Michigan for a 3 day weekend. Ex saw ds for 1 of those days for 3 hours. Ex skipped the other 2 days.

July 2010- I brought ds back to Michigan for a 3 day weekend TWICE (2 weekends in a row- one was ex's scheduled visit and the other was because we had court monday). Ex refused to see ds at all on either of those visits. Ex didn't even ask about ds when we were standing in the courthouse together. Nothing.

So in the past year I've had ds back in Michigan for 18 days. Ex saw him 2 of those days for a total of 6 hours.

The next time we're up in Michigan is this next October. Ex wants me to leave ds with him (alone- ds hasn't been alone with him in 5 years) for 3 hours Friday, 3 hours Saturday and 3 hours Sunday. I agreed IF he comes to Kentucky for a visit in August or September. My reasoning for this is because HE is the one who chose not to see ds when I brought him back to Michigan all those times. So, essentially, I'm supposed to send my child off alone with someone who he's only seen twice in the past year for 3 hours each? Someone he hasn't seen in over 7 months (from March to the end of October)?? No way in h*ll am I doing that.

I have a feeling ex is trying to drag this out so that October comes and he's not visited in August/September. I think he's under the impression that I'm just going to forget about all of that and let him take ds anyway.

What he doesn't realize is my lawyer has already said if there isn't an agreement in place (and there won't be if he doesn't come to Kentucky to visit) then I'm under no obligation to bring ds back to Michigan in October.

On the flip side- ex actually has been calling to talk to ds twice a week The downside to this is he is constantly ending the conversation by telling ds that he has to go feed the baby, put the baby to sleep, go eat, run errands, etc. That's just bogus to me. All that's doing is sending ds the message that he's not important enough and that ex can't even devote an hour twice a week to talking to him (I'd say 9 out of 10 calls have been ended by ex, only one was ended by ds so for the most part ds would be willing to talk to ex longer than ex is giving him). Oh, and there was 1 time where ex told ds he had to get off the phone because he had to call his sister and wish her a happy birthday. WTF? DS is 6 years old and ex has NEVER called him to wish him a happy birthday. Does he think ds is an idiot and doesn't realize that?!? Again, just telling ds that he's not important

[Momtwice]

I don't quite get this:

"I have a feeling ex is trying to drag this out so that October comes and he's not visited in August/September. I think he's under the impression that I'm just going to forget about all of that and let him take ds anyway."

Can you please explain? How would this benefit him?

oh yeah and more of these

[Phoenix~Mama]

Oh geez! I really really hope a judge looks at your ex and is like, seriously 6 hours in over a year's time and this was your choosing? You honestly have the nerve to ask for more time??

You are so strong and amazing to be dealing with this so calmly, Steph. I have far too many things I'd like to say about your ex... = UAV. Just ick.

How is your DS dealing with the phone convos and how they end? Has he said anything?

[doubledutch]

that is so pathetic. it's good that your lawyer is the one negotiating so you're not completely enmeshed in this, but i'm sorry you have to deal with it at all.

eta: i mean the part about him being unwilling to travel one time to see his own kid, that's what i think is so freaking pathetic.

[meemee]

momtwice i think what steph meant was her ex thinks if he doesnt come to O in aug/sept that steph will still allow O to spend time alone with him in MI for those 3 days in Oct.

well steph you knew he wouldnt make this easy. he's trying to figure out how to get the most by doing the littlest. his actions dont surprise me at all.

gosh it must be soo heart breaking for you with how he's ending the phone calls. my heart really breaks for O who i guess now looks forward to the phone calls. i mean how sweet and trusting he is.

i am sure he is also going against his lawyers advice.

i just dont understand him. at all. not one bit.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by Momtwice

I don't quite get this:

"I have a feeling ex is trying to drag this out so that October comes and he's not visited in August/September. I think he's under the impression that I'm just going to forget about all of that and let him take ds anyway."

Can you please explain? How would this benefit him?

Okay, let's see if I can explain it more clearly..... ex is trying not to agree to anything with the lawyers (he won't agree to visit ds here in Kentucky) because he thinks if he can stall until October then I'll suddenly agree to letting ds visit him in Michigan alone because August/September is already past so there's no way he can come to Kentucky in those months if they're already past. Make sense? So ex is trying to drag it out until October and then he'll say "but wait- I can't come visit in August/September because those months are already past. I guess you'll just bring ds to Michigan this month (October) and I'll see him then".

Honestly, if that happens then I have no idea what we'll do. I'm certainly not letting him take ds alone. I'm tempted to say I'll bring ds back to Michigan in October BUT ex can only see him with me present AND he will need to visit ds in Kentucky in November before I bring ds back to Michigan in December.

What I want to do is say "tough... take me to court" but ex has already told ds that he's going to see him in October (with no agreement between us so he really shouldn't be talking to ds about it at all ) but I don't want to upset ds with not seeing him either. It's a fine line to tread. Before ds didn't care at all about ex so it was easier. Now he actually looks forward to the calls so I can't just say "nope, I'm not bringing you to Michigan in October so you can't see him".

As for the phone conversations..... he looks forward to them He's not said anything about how they end other than stuff like "I was talking to M*** about (fill in the blank) but he had to go (take care of the baby, eat, etc)". Once I think ex hung up and ds didn't even realize, he was still talking to the phone (with nobody there) when I walked in the room I will say that I give ex a tiny bit of credit. He is not pushing ds to call him "dad" at all and accepts that ds calls him by his first name. He also didn't tell ds that fairies and princesses were for girls when ds went on and on and on talking about fairies and princesses for probably 20 minutes one day. LOL! I totally expected him to tell ds that those were for girls and he couldn't talk about/play with them. For the most part ds just wanders around the house with the phone so I hear bits and pieces of the conversation if he happens to come into whatever room I'm in. Other than that when the phone rings I open it and hand it straight to ds. Ds hangs up when he's done so I don't talk to ex at all.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by meemee

i am sure he is also going against his lawyers advice.

I'm sure he is. When we were in the courthouse we (me, ex and both our lawyers) were talking about it. When my lawyer brought up ex coming to Kentucky for a weekend visit ex started to argue it. His lawyer shut him up, asked me how long the drive was (6-7 hours each way) and told ex "that's not far. You can do that once". So I know his lawyer agrees with him visiting ds here.

His lawyer also told him off (right in front of me and my lawyer! LOL!) when ex started refusing to sign the passport papers. His lawyer asked him why he was refusing and he said he had no reason, he just wasn't going to sign them. His lawyer told him to stop acting like that and sign the darn papers. LOL!

I'm going to call my lawyer Monday and see what's up (I have no more cell minutes until it restarts tonight so can't call her today ). I might ask her to put a deadline on ex's answer (he either agrees by September 1st to come to Kentucky to see ds in September or we'll go to court in September/October and let the Judge decide).

[PoppyMama]

If I remember correctly from past threads...your x and his new wife are trying to get more custody so they can lower support payments. Wasn't this pushed by the wife and she was really upset that they wouldn't be able to take your son and have him with her?

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

If I remember correctly from past threads...your x and his new wife are trying to get more custody so they can lower support payments. Wasn't this pushed by the wife and she was really upset that they wouldn't be able to take your son and have him with her?

Yup, that's them. He and his wife have 1 baby (just turned a year a couple weeks ago) and she is currently pregnant again. Money is a big factor for them. They are trying to get more time with ds so that ex's support gets lowered. Ex's wife is upset (from what I've seen) because I told ex I was asking for ROFR (so if he personally can't care for ds then he needs to offer it to me). When I went to ex's house 5 weeks ago and talked to him about it all (with Chickadee hoovering over us ) he mentioned that they have the "perfect babysitter" for ds when he's with them- Chickdee's parents. Yeah.... they're already planning on pawning ds off with other people because they don't actually WANT him. They just want it on paper so they can lower support.

And.... they'll get a fun surprise at the beginning of next year DP and I are getting married January 1st. After that we'll get ds on dp's insurance. Once that kicks in (probably take a few weeks, so I anticipate that will be by the end of January) I will send a request to the friend of the court to re-figure child support. Based on online calculators it will increase his current child support by at least 1/3 of what he's already paying. All I have to say is I kinda wanna be a fly on ex and Chickadee's wall when they open the letter letting them know of the increase Plus once ds is on dp's insurance ex will also be responsible for 76% of uncovered medical/dental/vision ON TOP of the increased child support. I anticipate him paying about $300 more per month than he is right now (and that's not counting any major medical things with ds.... that will raise his amount up very quickly). Ahhh.... the taste of revenge will be sweet

[doubledutch]

wait. if he doesn't come to kentucky in august or september, is there any reason other than his visitation with your ds that you would go to michigan in october? if you are planning a trip there because you want to visit family and you would personally be disappointed not to go, then i guess i agree with you that you should still go but not let him have unsupervised visitation. if you would be going only for his visitation, then don't go. in that case, your next trip to michigan should be dependent on him first visiting your ds in kentucky, otherwise you don't go (or don't inform him / offer visitation when you do go, if you are going for there for other reasons).

[meemee]

honestly steph i thought chickadee was much smarter than she is showing. she already knows about the 75% medical coverage. your ex might be an asshat. but sheesh she could keep him in line. even with the lawyer.

i am glad things are actually working out this way because ex is digging himself deeper and deeper in the grave and all this is getting on paper legally.

[cheer mom]

there's no way that he'll get support lowered on the basis of having the child 6 hours every few months. WTHeck is he thinking?

[cycle]

Originally Posted by cheer mom

there's no way that he'll get support lowered on the basis of having the child 6 hours every few months. WTHeck is he thinking?

Yeah, I don't understand why they think they will get support lowered for the amount of additional time he is asking for. He needs much more time, including many more overnights, to get a reduction in support. Are you sure thats their motivation? In Michigan there is no reduction in support without a significant number of overnights with the NCP which he obviously will never have.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by cycle

Yeah, I don't understand why they think they will get support lowered for the amount of additional time he is asking for. He needs much more time, including many more overnights, to get a reduction in support. Are you sure thats their motivation? In Michigan there is no reduction in support without a significant number of overnights with the NCP which he obviously will never have.

Well, his original statement to me back in March was that he wanted ds for all Christmas break (2 weeks), all spring break (1 week) and at least half the summer break (9-10 weeks is the full summer break). He knows there's no way in h*ll a judge will grant that right now so he has to work up to it. So, yes, I believe money is a motivating factor. But I know him too well, he'll never be motivated enough to actually care for ds that long. DS is almost 7 and ex has never had him alone for more than 3 hours (by his own choosing- he had the option of moving to 4 hours, then 5, etc but he refused to do more than 3 hours).

[LoveOhm]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama

Oh geez! I really really hope a judge looks at your ex and is like, seriously 6 hours in over a year's time and this was your choosing? You honestly have the nerve to ask for more time??

You are so strong and amazing to be dealing with this so calmly, Steph. I have far too many things I'd like to say about your ex... = UAV. Just ick.

How is your DS dealing with the phone convos and how they end? Has he said anything?

My thoughts exactly!!!! Steph I am happy you are taking a hard line. I do think I would go in October regardless and just do visitation as you have in the past with you present with so many days advanced notice. And I would not do the visit in your state the next time as an alternative option because that could just set a cycle that is annoying (and expensive) for everyone involved.

Originally Posted by cheer mom

there's no way that he'll get support lowered on the basis of having the child 6 hours every few months. WTHeck is he thinking?

Originally Posted by cycle

Yeah, I don't understand why they think they will get support lowered for the amount of additional time he is asking for. He needs much more time, including many more overnights, to get a reduction in support. Are you sure thats their motivation? In Michigan there is no reduction in support without a significant number of overnights with the NCP which he obviously will never have.

Cheer Mom & Cycle - I actually think the unsupervised visits in their home state exclusively is only the first step the new wife and maybe O's dad are planning to take. I suspect this is a foundation in hopes of getting O for summers and school breaks.

Given O's medical history and needs I can never imagine how they can even imagine long stretches of time anywhere in the near future. While the money is most likely a factor it will take a long while to build up to enough time for it to do anything so it's not an overnight fix. The new women perhaps views this too as a way for the siblings to be closer in the future. Still not ideal but there could be some good in her reasoning even if it is small in comparison to the money motive. Or maybe she is just ashamed of how O's dad is uninvolved and is trying to change his relationship with O in hopes that it will give her more confidence in his ability to connect and care for their own children.

[cycle]

Originally Posted by LoveOhm

My thoughts exactly!!!! Steph I am happy you are taking a hard line. I do think I would go in October regardless and just do visitation as you have in the past with you present with so many days advanced notice. And I would not do the visit in your state the next time as an alternative option because that could just set a cycle that is annoying (and expensive) for everyone involved.





Cheer Mom & Cycle - I actually think the unsupervised visits in their home state exclusively is only the first step the new wife and maybe O's dad are planning to take. I suspect this is a foundation in hopes of getting O for summers and school breaks.

Given O's medical history and needs I can never imagine how they can even imagine long stretches of time anywhere in the near future. While the money is most likely a factor it will take a long while to build up to enough time for it to do anything so it's not an overnight fix. The new women perhaps views this too as a way for the siblings to be closer in the future. Still not ideal but there could be some good in her reasoning even if it is small in comparison to the money motive. Or maybe she is just ashamed of how O's dad is uninvolved and is trying to change his relationship with O in hopes that it will give her more confidence in his ability to connect and care for their own children.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, I mean, Steph's ex now has (almost) two kids with this woman, who wants to be in that position with a guy who pretty much abandoned his first born child?

Its frustrating from the outside to watch, I know from going through a small fraction of what you are going through Steph how unbelievably frustrating it is.