Unsure of what to do. RE: supper issues

[starbuckmom]

I have an almost 5yr old ds. He will be 5 in Sept. Up till just the last month or two, he has been great with eating. He is perfectly with eating what I put in front of him save for new food. I have a rule, if you will, about new foods. I say to him "You need to take one no thank you bite". He knows that after he takes one bite, I will not make him eat more unless he chooses to on his own. We do not have a clean plate club here and I do not make my kids eat a ton of food. If they eat only a few bites of food and are done, I am ok with that. I know they get most of their calories through breakfast and lunch and a few from snacks. The last snack my 5yr old gets is at 4pm and we eat between 5 and 5:30pm for supper. The snack isn't big either.

Lately, he has been verbally disagreeing as soon as he sees whats on his plate. I do try and make meals with my kids in mind. My dh and I like to eat low carb/low fat so we have lots of veggies at our meals.

Just the past 2 nights I have sent him away from the table for being rude about eating. He will argue about what I want him to eat. He will put up a huge fuss. I am tired of it.

I know his tastes are different than mine so I don't expect him to like what we like. If he would just eat a few bites and not fuss, this wouldn't be so hard.

Anyone else have a child who is close in age doing this too? What have you done to solve this? I am willing to change anything I am doing wrong to work with him.

For the record, I DO NOT discipline (b/c this is an issue with food) when my ds chooses to be really fussy with me and disagreeable.

[bluebunny]

Sounds like my five-year old lately, down to the arguing about the food and disagreeing as soon as he sees his plate. I really don't want to make food my battle ground so I am hesitant about pushing the issue beyond telling him that his comments are rude, especially since he hasn't even tried the food, and that his comments are hurtful since I am the cook. We do talk about that. If he is insistent that he won't eat, I have allowed him to have a piece of fruit (apple, plum) and a half of a pbj. If I have provided at least one thing that he should like (plain pasta, for instance), I just repeat the mantra "what you see on your plate is dinner. If you are hungry, that is what you can eat." Sometimes I say that mantra ten times.

So, I guess I don't have any real advice. I'm hoping it is a phase. My son used to be a pretty good eater.

[starbuckmom]

Good to know I am not the only one! I to let him know that this is whats for supper and if he is hungry later, this is what he gets to eat. Never eats it, but he knows. Sounds like we are in the same boat!

[cattmom]

I really like the advice given by Ellyn Satter. http://www.ellynsatter.com/january-1...als-i-105.html

She's not a fan of the "no thank you bite," or any pressure on kids at mealtime. Her philosophy is that you set the time and content of the meal (although you should sympathetically include at least one or two things that you know they will like and eat, like buttered bread) and they decide if they'll eat it and how much. The parent shouldn't be trying to get into the child's responsibility (if and how much).

We go by this, but I also have another rule. You thank the person who made the food, and if you like it, you tell them. But if you don't like it, then you just don't eat it. Rude comments about food are not interesting dinner table conversation and they aren't polite and respectful to the cook; anybody who wants to talk that way doesn't need to be at the table. My daughter was trying on "hate" a few weeks ago (I hate this, I hate that) and tried it at the table. It didn't fly. But I'd feel pretty bad about that rule if I actually forced her to eat something and then didn't let her express her feelings about it.

[waiflywaif]

We have the same rule. Say nothing if you don't like it; say that it's good if you do. At my DD's preschool they would say, "You can't yuck someone else's yum," which meant no negative commenting on other kid's lunches.

[starbuckmom]

Originally Posted by cattmom

I really like the advice given by Ellyn Satter. http://www.ellynsatter.com/january-1...als-i-105.html

She's not a fan of the "no thank you bite," or any pressure on kids at mealtime. Her philosophy is that you set the time and content of the meal (although you should sympathetically include at least one or two things that you know they will like and eat, like buttered bread) and they decide if they'll eat it and how much. The parent shouldn't be trying to get into the child's responsibility (if and how much).

We go by this, but I also have another rule. You thank the person who made the food, and if you like it, you tell them. But if you don't like it, then you just don't eat it. Rude comments about food are not interesting dinner table conversation and they aren't polite and respectful to the cook; anybody who wants to talk that way doesn't need to be at the table. My daughter was trying on "hate" a few weeks ago (I hate this, I hate that) and tried it at the table. It didn't fly. But I'd feel pretty bad about that rule if I actually forced her to eat something and then didn't let her express her feelings about it.

To the first bolded: Very interesting thought! I like it! I will be implementing that at our next meal. You also mentioned thanking the person who made the meal. My ds has in the past mentioned to his daddy, if the meal was just what he liked, ie: spaghetti, he says, "Mommy did a good job, huh daddy?!!!"

To the 2nd bolded part: Hate is a very strong word in my opinion. I would rather a child try something and say "I don't care for this", than to immediately turn their nose up at it w/o even trying.

You all have had some interesting thoughts about my situation and I wanted to say thanks!

I am wondering if this dinner time issue is just an attitude/behavior is something typical of a 5 yr old. Maybe trying to push his boundaries to see how I/dh would react. Maybe he is trying to assert himself more which I am fine with, we just need to fine tune how he says things.

I know it's been hard the past 19mos since his brothers (twins) entered the family. He went from being an only child for a little over 3 yrs to all of a sudden, there are 2 little ones invading his territory. I know it's hard enough for a child to get one younger sibling but to have 2 at once, gotta be tough.

Lots of things to think about and implement!

[klt]

That Ellyn Satter link has some nice reminders on "snacks." (http://www.ellynsatter.com/sit-down-snacks-i-50.html) Thanks for the link.

I have a 5 yo and I don't pressure him to eat certain foods or amounts. Just interested in the ritual, as in, sitting down to meal time and knowing that this is the time to eat. He fluctuates on appetite and I don't use it against him. I usually check in with him what he is interested in eating, sometimes offering 2 suggestions and letting him choose which one. Then I build a meal around it, usually adding vegetables or grains to the mix. We are still eating a heavy rotation of pasta, pizza, quesadillas and we sometimes eat a meat. I keep the whole event simple with out a lot of variety b/c I find that if there are too many dishes, he gets overwhelmed and won't eat, or will protest. (IE I will do: pasta, and salami slices on the plate, with a side of saute zucchini and one mini carrot stick.)

I do go by his own appetite. If he is not hungry at dinner time, then I plan dinner on that and make one small thing like a quesadilla. I also expect, in the back of my mind, that he will eat a snack around 6:30-7:00 so...I let him eat one thing at dinner and don't say anything. When he says he wants a snack later, I don't make a fuss and offer yogurt, fruit, cheese, etc. (though he wants cookies, I tell him he can have xyz and then a treat.)

I think being consistent with your expectations too is helpful. What a compicated issue, I didn't expect to write so much!

[starbuckmom]

I took a moment to look at the Ellen Satter link. Good ideas and it seems I am doing most of what she says. I am, unfortuanately, focusing on what he eats, not how we eat, ie: making sure we are sitting down with the family.

Quick question: What does your 5 yr olds plate look like when he sits down to eat? When I dish up my ds plate, I make sure this is a couple of tablespoons of the food so he isn't overwhelmed when he does sit down to eat. I figure he can ask for more if he chooses. Should I change anything?

[Anastasiya]

For me, it depends on the kid. I have always strongly suggested that my kids take one bite of everything on their plates, because without trying something they won't know if they like it. It was never a battle of wills....they often weren't too happy with trying something, but they did it. And, for the record, my kids will eat things other kids don't normally eat because they are no longer afraid to try things.

However, I did have one child at a certain age who would literally gag and nearly vomit if certain textures would touch her mouth, and I respected that. Now I have a kiddo who gags at certain tastes, and I respect that, too. But, if it's something I know they can tolerate and will probably end up liking, there is a one bite "rule".

OP, I won't tolerate rudeness or tantrums at the table, and I would dismiss a child from mealtime if she/he ever did that. But I wouldn't turn the one bite thing into a huge battle, either. If my kids ever seriously protest (which is rare), then I won't press it.

[The4OfUs]

The lightbulb, for us, was talking with the kids about the fact that they don't have to *like* everything they eat...that every food they put in their bodies doesn't have to be thier favorite tasting ones (wouldn't that be great though?). That sometimes we eat for fuel and eat whatever is beign served whether we're in the mood for it or not. My kids do not have any sensory issues, so this was all about their increasing pickiness was fully a product of me wanting to avoid struggles and them realizing if they put up a fight they could get exactly what they wanted. It got to the point where I was making 2 separate meals; one for me and DH, one for them, and I was really over doing it. Or, they were choosing a sandwich or crackers and yogurt every night, which just wasn't OK with me. It started innocently when they were about 2 and 4-1/2, and morphed so slowly I didn't notice it for a while, into that situation by the time they were about 3-1/2 and 5. Now, we do not eat a horribly exotic diet, so it's not like we're asking them to eat unusual foods...and we even take into consideration texture issues they both seem to have in not liking casserole and soup-type items. But what was going on was not OK (loud, rude protests/complaining at dinners like: spaghetti and meatballs with a big salad, or chicken and rice with green beans) - so we worked out:

-They each get a "choose night" where they pick dinner (they have similar tastes so they each like what the other chooses).
-We do one night where we know it's food they love.
-The other 4 nights we serve a nutritious meal that involves at least one thing they tolerate and whether it's their favorite or not, they eat at least some of all of it (I usually give them as many small bites as their age). If they complain or are rude about it, then they have to eat all of all of what they were served (which is never a ton).

Simply discussing rudeness and complaining did nothing to deter it from happening, nor did sending them from the table to compose themselves, so we had to get a little more hardcore than we usually are (with the 'if you are rude and complain, you finish it all). They are free to politely say they don't like something after tasting it and only have to take a couple bites, and do not have to finish it.

It really, really was a lightbulb conversation to have, when we discussed things like, "daddy's doesn't really like rice at all, but when mommy makes it with dinner he eats it because it's nutritious and is what's being served" or, "mommy wasn't in the mood for chicken tonight really, but it's what daddy made and it's healthy and she ate it anyway." Food for fuel vs food for fun made a lot of sense to them. And because they get to plan the menu a few nights a week, they are more receptive to not grumbling about the other nights. Again, we do not serve them things that they clearly have problems with (casseroles, soupd, stews), but "I'm not in the mood for that tonight" doesn't cut it in this house I have also been teaching them the fine art of picking around things. Last night we challenged them by serving some baked ziti (which is casserole-like). I can understand not liking the squishiness of the mozz and ricotta, so I suggested to them to just pick out the individual noodles and hunks of meat, and they both thought that was awesome and ate all of that, leaving the excess sauce and goopy cheese.

To be extra clear, we do not advocate eating things just to eat them when you're not hungry, boredom eating, or forcing plates of truly objectionable foods on a kid - it's about privilege (being able to afford to refuse/waste food), about manners (refusing politely after trying something, or choking it down if it's just not what you were in the mood for but you don't hate it) and understanding that getting exactly what you want every time you want it isn't going to happen, and that that is totally OK, you don't always have to have exactly what you want to be content or satisfied (in minor things like this, not issues of social justice, etc.).

Annnnnyway - I may be in the minority on this one, and that's OK with me. Thsi has totally worked for us and our dinners are now way less stressful than they were a year and a half ago.

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

The lightbulb, for us, was talking with the kids about the fact that they don't have to *like* everything they eat...that every food they put in their bodies doesn't have to be thier favorite tasting ones (wouldn't that be great though?). That sometimes we eat for fuel and eat whatever is beign served whether we're in the mood for it or not. My kids do not have any sensory issues, so this was all about their increasing pickiness was fully a product of me wanting to avoid struggles and them realizing if they put up a fight they could get exactly what they wanted. It got to the point where I was making 2 separate meals; one for me and DH, one for them, and I was really over doing it. Or, they were choosing a sandwich or crackers and yogurt every night, which just wasn't OK with me. It started innocently when they were about 2 and 4-1/2, and morphed so slowly I didn't notice it for a while, into that situation by the time they were about 3-1/2 and 5. Now, we do not eat a horribly exotic diet, so it's not like we're asking them to eat unusual foods...and we even take into consideration texture issues they both seem to have in not liking casserole and soup-type items. But what was going on was not OK (loud, rude protests/complaining at dinners like: spaghetti and meatballs with a big salad, or chicken and rice with green beans) - so we worked out:

-They each get a "choose night" where they pick dinner (they have similar tastes so they each like what the other chooses).
-We do one night where we know it's food they love.
-The other 4 nights we serve a nutritious meal that involves at least one thing they tolerate and whether it's their favorite or not, they eat at least some of all of it (I usually give them as many small bites as their age). If they complain or are rude about it, then they have to eat all of all of what they were served (which is never a ton).

Simply discussing rudeness and complaining did nothing to deter it from happening, nor did sending them from the table to compose themselves, so we had to get a little more hardcore than we usually are (with the 'if you are rude and complain, you finish it all). They are free to politely say they don't like something after tasting it and only have to take a couple bites, and do not have to finish it.

It really, really was a lightbulb conversation to have, when we discussed things like, "daddy's doesn't really like rice at all, but when mommy makes it with dinner he eats it because it's nutritious and is what's being served" or, "mommy wasn't in the mood for chicken tonight really, but it's what daddy made and it's healthy and she ate it anyway." Food for fuel vs food for fun made a lot of sense to them. And because they get to plan the menu a few nights a week, they are more receptive to not grumbling about the other nights. Again, we do not serve them things that they clearly have problems with (casseroles, soupd, stews), but "I'm not in the mood for that tonight" doesn't cut it in this house I have also been teaching them the fine art of picking around things. Last night we challenged them by serving some baked ziti (which is casserole-like). I can understand not liking the squishiness of the mozz and ricotta, so I suggested to them to just pick out the individual noodles and hunks of meat, and they both thought that was awesome and ate all of that, leaving the excess sauce and goopy cheese.

To be extra clear, we do not advocate eating things just to eat them when you're not hungry, boredom eating, or forcing plates of truly objectionable foods on a kid - it's about privilege (being able to afford to refuse/waste food), about manners (refusing politely after trying something, or choking it down if it's just not what you were in the mood for but you don't hate it) and understanding that getting exactly what you want every time you want it isn't going to happen, and that that is totally OK, you don't always have to have exactly what you want to be content or satisfied (in minor things like this, not issues of social justice, etc.).

Annnnnyway - I may be in the minority on this one, and that's OK with me. Thsi has totally worked for us and our dinners are now way less stressful than they were a year and a half ago.

I really, really, REALLY like this. Thank you.

One thing I have noticed with the kids of some of our friends who don't force the "try it" bite is that the kids are very, very picky eaters. And as they grow that obstinance turns to rudeness (like when at a guest's house and they don't want to eat anything because they don't "like" it.)

[Alyantavid]

We have a few rules about eating. They must try one bite, they can't be rude about what they're served, and they both help with meal planning.

I do pizza night once a week and I think that since my kids know that there will be at least one thing on the table every night that they like, it makes the other stuff they don't like seem like not such a big deal.

[BeanyMama]

It's really common at this age, I think. And it passes. We don't make our kids try anything or require a thank you, they try stuff and thank from their will and our examples. I think requiring it would lose something for us! No rude comments and table manners are requested, though. And I do put a serving on everyone's plate regardless of if they'll eat it. Exposure goes a long way! What works for us when someone doesn't like something (which is bound to happen in a family of 5) is always having a constant that they'll eat and is healthy for them to fill up on. My kids are big salad eaters, so there's a salad with every dinner. If the meal isn't appetizing to them, there's old faithful. Seconds on things like bread are for if the meal is eaten, and it goes for us adults too.

I agree with involving children in the meal prep so hugely! It makes a difference. Especially if they're in the shopping as well as cooking process. It's worth it.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

I really, really, REALLY like this. Thank you.

One thing I have noticed with the kids of some of our friends who don't force the "try it" bite is that the kids are very, very picky eaters. And as they grow that obstinance turns to rudeness (like when at a guest's house and they don't want to eat anything because they don't "like" it.)

We don't enforce the rule, and my son's neither rude nor a picky eater.

I will say that we have a cheerful expectation that he will try things and a firm rule that he is not to be rude about it. But I do not get into counting bites be it one or none.

[jillmamma]

I think a lot of it is the age. DS went through a phase like that around 5 where his list of foods he liked went way down, and now at 7.5, he is a lot more willing to try something and eat things he used to like again. Now I am going through this with DD, who is 5 in 8 days. I, like most of you, am trying to be patient with her while asking her to be polite about it, encourage her to try things, but if she's done, she's done, and ride it out.