ADHD parents & kids

[Carita]

Just had a ped appt for DS. He's always been tough to settle down to sleep and ADHD is rampant in my family. They suggested lots of routine. But how do I remember the routine? I tried to pass it off to a very normal DH, but its less of a priority for him. I on the other hand know all about how DS must feel and his brain won't stop. I'd love to stick to a routine, but I can't even reliably do it myself. Heck, I can't even remember to brush my own teeth half the time. We tried a chore/routine chart, but I can't even remember to do that everynight.

Any tips?

[buttercup784ever]

I'm confused about what you mean about not remembering. Do you have a short term memory disorder or do you mean that the time comes and goes to begin the routine, it's time for bed, and you don't have time to do it now?

If it's the first reason, I would think that a poster in an obvious place like the kitchen would remind you of what the routine is. Put times next to each step, and then set a watch or alarm to go off a few minutes before the first task should be started. Maybe use sticky notes in different strategic areas to remind you to 'start the bedtime routine at 7pm' or whenever you want to start.

If you just don't start in time, and your child doesn't have to go to bed at a specific time, you should start the routine immediately when you remember to put him to bed. Don't just expect him to jump in bed and go to sleep without it. Make it a short routine so that it doesn't take a lot of time if it starts late. For example, just do a brush teeth, read a story, sing a song, and kiss good night routine. That way if it starts really late it will be over quickly, but all the elements can be performed.

[Carita]

We have the poster in the entrance to the kitchen with our bedtime routine and it is never used. Some might be starting it too late, but really I am just very forgetful (and really need a routine for myself), but I can't seem to get it going. They say after you do something for 30 days, it will become normal and engrained and routine, but I can't seem to get anything going on that consistent basis. I could blame it on my ADHD, but whatever, I have always been a very absent-minded person. I just need to find some way to get 30 days of routine done.

[kittynurse]

I *totally* get what you mean OP. Both DS1 and I have ADHD as well as other issues. I find *my* ADHD is the most frustrating aspect of *his* ADHD because I know exactly what to do to help him and just can't do it (at least not consistently). That probably won't make any sense to anyone other than another parent with ADHD.

I've been wanting to discuss this with other parents for awhile. I hope we can get a good discussion going (until we all forget! LOL)

Martha

[Rose-Roget]

Rather than a poster in the kitchen, I'd try it where the routine will be happening. Maybe do a "Steps to Getting Ready for Bed" with the steps listed. Refer to your list after each step; if you forget a step, just do it later in the routine. It's not so much whether you brush teeth before or after pj's as it is having a winding down process to allow the body to prepare for sleep.

If you feel like he and you lose track of time in the process, put a time limit on each of those steps - say 5 minutes to brush teeth, 5 to put on pj's, 20 for stories, etc. Then, get yourself a visual timer ( www.timetimer.com ) and set it for each step of the process. Those things work wonders.

If you need something to remind you when to start a bedtime routine - say, you'd like to have him in bed by 8pm, so you need to start getting ready by 7:20 or 7:30 - then set a watch alarm to alert you.

[applecider]

I've been really struggling with this too. And it is especially important to get it together since DS1 starts K in a couple of weeks! I like the timer idea, I need to figure out how to do that. Maybe on a cell phone? Even with a routine, DS is SO hard to settle down to sleep. He is 5 and sometimes it takes an hour of laying there, rolling around, talking to himself, yelling for me, needing a drink, needing to pee...it's aggravating! Especially since we generally go to bed at the same time. I do give him calms forte sometimes and that seems to help with the settling down...don't know if that helps you.

[Rose-Roget]

For the alarm, a cell phone or watch would work well. For the timer, I tried to use the kitchen timer for years, but that doesn't provide the really visual input for self-regulation that ds needs. He has done very well with the visual timers.

Another thing I have been looking into for ds is SPD. It seems to really help him to get some heavy work in during the day and then either a back scratch or massage or deep pressure before bed (he tells me which he wants). We're far from perfect, but that helps a lot!

[buttercup784ever]

Originally Posted by Carita

We have the poster in the entrance to the kitchen with our bedtime routine and it is never used. Some might be starting it too late, but really I am just very forgetful (and really need a routine for myself), but I can't seem to get it going. They say after you do something for 30 days, it will become normal and engrained and routine, but I can't seem to get anything going on that consistent basis. I could blame it on my ADHD, but whatever, I have always been a very absent-minded person. I just need to find some way to get 30 days of routine done.

Why don't you use it? I guess I'm just not understanding when you say 'I forget'. If every night it's difficult to get your DS to sleep, aren't you reminded to do the routine during the process?

If it's not that you are 'forgetting' but that is like your buzz word for not being able to start-to-finish get through it, that's something different. If that's the problem I think maybe your routine might have too many steps or each step might be taking too much time.

Could you post what you would like the routine to be? That way we could stream-line it so that each step flows in a way that would make it easier for you to get through.

[applecider]

Originally Posted by buttercup784ever

Why don't you use it? I guess I'm just not understanding when you say 'I forget'. If every night it's difficult to get your DS to sleep, aren't you reminded to do the routine during the process?

As someone who also has ADD, I can totally understand how she just "forgets". I forget things constantly even when they are right in front of my face. This happens to me when I start feeling moody and depressed and I can't figure out why. Then one day it dawns on me, oh! I haven't been taking my supplements. I don't know if you have ADD or not, but it probably is really difficult to understand this unless you have it.

I do like the timer thing, maybe you could set a timer to remind you to look at the poster?

[Carita]

thanks cody and kitty!

so dh does most of bed time routine because I put DD down at about the same time & i can't force him to use the chart. i forget to remind him about it and he doesn't realize how important it is for me and DS. i had a long chat about why the chart was important and that since i am the forgetful one, i need his help to stick to routine. it went really well but now listening to ds upset upstairs, i now remember that he didn't do ANY of the nighttime routine except just book and bed. i think the whole adhd convo went in one ear and out the other except where i promised to be better about remembering my chores. DS needs a longer routine than that. but now i think it would be silly to start over because ds is already going to be overtired. ??

i did completely revamp our routine - made a list for AM, PM, as a list of things to remember to pack the night before and take with me to work...now using the list is still another challenge. eta: i have the list between the living room and kitchen which is about 3 ft from the only bathroom in the house, so i figured it was well in common sight.

i have been meaning to get a timer for a while, but forget... maybe i should just order one on amazon now so i have no excuse.

martha - love what you said - don't forget to sub to the thread!! LOL

[Carita]

routine - trying to keep to a longer routine - this is for the family
set table
dinner
clean up
load dishwasher
> play
pick up toys
bath
brush teeth
get jammies on
go potty
> book
bed

i think i need to give him a snack before bed somewhere in there?
> means its not written down

if i didn't do this, it would look like
sort of clean up
play
snack
jammies
potty
book
bed

and that is not enough currently

[Rose-Roget]

Originally Posted by Carita

routine - trying to keep to a longer routine - this is for the family
set table
dinner
clean up
load dishwasher
> play
pick up toys
bath
brush teeth
get jammies on
go potty
> book
bed

i think i need to give him a snack before bed somewhere in there?
> means its not written down

if i didn't do this, it would look like
sort of clean up
play
snack
jammies
potty
book
bed

and that is not enough currently

It sounds like you're trying to tackle a couple of things at the same time - establishing a bedtime routine for your son and helping yourself get more organized. Take them separately.

I wouldn't consider the dinner/cleanup routine part of the bedtime routine. That's separate, so make that a separate chart/list and strive as a family to stick to it, if that's important to you. (But I'd tackle the bedtime thing first, since that's your primary concern.)

The second list you posted is the bedtime routine portion of the list you made. Again, post it somewhere you're going to see it at bedtime - or maybe multiple places you'll see it at bedtime, if necessary.

play
snack
jammies
potty
book
bed

A routine is important to help establish a pattern for the brain to begin to recognize the winding down of the day. It's not necessarily that the more steps there are make it more calming, kwim? Adding in all kinds of extras make a routine harder and don't necessarily lend to an easier time going to bed. Rather, it's the types and length of activities you do.

We don't do a bedtime snack, since we've just eaten dinner and sometimes it can give the body more energy which is what you want to avoid, but different families do things differently. I'd make a rule about what kind of play is acceptable, if you think he needs more play in his day - something calming for your ds, not the kind that gets his mind racing or his body over-stimulated, maybe with the lights low. Or better yet, shorten playtime and add a bath. That can be very calming to many children, and many children think of it as playtime anyway. Maybe give him 2 or 3 stories (depending on length and attention), and add a backrub or tuck-in or snuggles. Give him some music if he likes it. (I guess I'm not really helping you with the routine now, as much as giving you ideas for the kinds of calming activities you can do.)

Mary Sheedy Kurcinka has a book called Sleepless in America. I haven't read it yet, but I think she had a section in Raising your Spirited Child that offered a lot of good information, so I imagine this book is very good. You could read that for ideas. As for your dh, I'm guessing that the fewer steps there are to a routine, the better, in order to get buy-in.

[buttercup784ever]

I wouldn't consider play as part of the routine. I think you need to start with something that just screams 'it's bedtime now!' Everything you do from that point on should be about getting ready for bed. If you want to incorporate snack into the routine just be very careful what the snack is.

I actually think it's a bit long too, if you're having trouble sticking to it. Can you do bath and snack earlier so it's not part of the bedtime routine?

If that's not possible maybe do:
snack
bath
pajamas
play (quietly)
potty and teeth brushing
get in bed
story
lights out

So that's really 6 activities. I think what's really important is getting your ds ready for each change. The timer is a great idea, but I would make sure and set it a few minutes before you want him to move on to the next task. Give him a warning.

Also part of our routine is having all the stuffed animals lined up and tucked in too. Find something that is personal for you two and do it every night. If it's a special 'thing' that you share, I'll bet you won't forget to do it!

[buttercup784ever]

Originally Posted by cody'smomma

As someone who also has ADD, I can totally understand how she just "forgets". I forget things constantly even when they are right in front of my face. This happens to me when I start feeling moody and depressed and I can't figure out why. Then one day it dawns on me, oh! I haven't been taking my supplements. I don't know if you have ADD or not, but it probably is really difficult to understand this unless you have it.

I do like the timer thing, maybe you could set a timer to remind you to look at the poster?

It's not that I don't get that's how ADD is. My son is ADHD and I totally understand that he can be a quite a scatterbrain. But when someone says 'I forget' that could mean different things. If we know exactly what she means by 'forgetting' it will be easier to give tips.

If she forgets to start the routine on time, as soon as there is a problem at bedtime, maybe she remembers that she was SUPPOSED to start the routine and doesn't now what to do at that point. If DH is handling bedtime than maybe she won't remember the routine at all because she's not the one struggling to get DS to bed. There are different strategies for different issues, kwim?

[Carita]

let me clarify: this is the routine we currently do:
play
snack and/or bath - often skipped
jammies
potty (often forget to brush teeth)
book
bed

and its not enough. he is still havng lots of trouble w/settling down.

i do have multiple issues. in particular time easily gets away from DH & he is emptying the dishwasher while DS is acting already overtired, so i though having an entire evening routine would help dh start bedtime routine on time to avoid getting ds overtired. i seem to think HE skips steps in the bedtime routine because he starts it too late & I forget because its not on my radar since i'm putting DD to bed. perhaps instead i should focus on that timer.

eta: if i were putting ds to bed it would be a different problem. i seriously can't even remember to brush my teeth and when i do remember, i have a hard time pulling away from what i am doing to go do it.

[Rose-Roget]

Yeah, for this situation, the timer to alert to the beginning of the process sounds like a good idea. Again, adding more steps isn't going to help your ds necessarily. Steps involving unstructured time - like play and snack that don't have a set start/finish point -probably aren't going to help your dh stay on track either, but may be necessary, like a bath.

In our home, we have always started from the end and worked backward. Ds needs to be in bed by 7:00 on school nights (used to be 8:00 when he could sleep later). So I calculated the approximate amount of time we'll need to get ready. We start the process right after dinner.
pj's
pick up
potty
stories
press on back/scratch back/snuggle
lights out (with a kiss and soft music)

We have always done a long storytime - probably around 30 minutes, unless we're running behind schedule when I shorten it a bit. It helps him calm. He chooses the stories, we have time to talk about them...

Dd goes down around the same time, but sometimes I'm able to nurse her while he gets his pj's on, then I can do the end of routine bedtime with him - stories, snuggles...

For my dh, when there is something that I have learned about in regards to parenting, special needs, ds, etc. that he's not necessarily in tune with, I talk about it and then point out (kindly) instances when I see it occuring or when a particular strategy would be helpful. For example, when I started to learn about SPD and tried some of the strategies with ds, dh didn't buy in immediately. I subtly pointed out times when I observed traits, then I suggested dh try giving ds a big bear hug at times he was acting a certain way. Dh saw for himself what a difference that made for ds and now "buys into" it.

Pointing out those times when your ds is overtired and wound back up may help your dh understand that it's not that ds is NOT tired, it's that he's TOO tired to stop. Kwim? If you can find a way to help get ds into a solid bedtime routine (maybe shift dd's bedtime a bit, or have dh help out there before/after you've fed her - I'm assuming that's why you're the one to put her to sleep), your dh may see the difference and you'll get the "buy in."

[buttercup784ever]

The length of the bedtime routine is not the problem. In fact, the longer it is the less likely you are to do it consistently. Doing it the same every night is the key.

It sounds like your DH is not interested/able to do this, and as long as he's in charge putting your ds to bed there's really nothing you can do about it. I know you say you really can't remember, but if this is a priority for you maybe you can take over. Set the alarms, put up post-its, whatever you have to do to remind yourself. But short of nagging your dh to death about it, I don't see what you can do if this isn't something your willing to take on yourself.

[Carita]

i think rose completely hit the nail on the head when she talked about "selling" it to DH. He is certainly able and has a vested interest in seening our son fall asleep easily, but when I talked to him today again about the suggestions, he kept saying "but what did they say to help him get to stay in bed and settle down and fall asleep faster??" I told him about the sensory ideas, but aslo kept saing "routine" and I think he's just not convinced that a routine will solve our sleep problems.

that said - I think a timer for all parts of routine, from start to end is probably exactly what we need here. I am excited to try that... now only if I could remember to get a timer...

I can't take over bedtime routine. If I tried to take over every chore that I thought I could do "better" than DH, I'd be doing all of them - don't get me wrong, he is great, but I tend to be a bit bossy because I like things done and organized a cetain way to help my brain relax LOL. I have to recognize that it's a more effective time management on my part to support him in helping to develop his parenting skills rather than to just take it over.... you know, the whole "teach a man to fish..."

[buttercup784ever]

I agree, but I think prioritizing what is important to you and what is important to your dh and then distributing the 'chores' that way is more effective IMO then trying to force him to do something that he is not interested in pursuing.

But if your dh is open to the idea, why not let him make up what the routine is? Maybe instead of reading a story (my dh hates doing that) they can work a puzzle or something like that.

Also if he has a problem staying in bed, we have a strategy we tell the parents' of autistic kids that works. Give him 'out of bed' passes. Maybe start out with 2 or 3. Whenever he gets out of bed he has to give you a pass. If he has a pass in the morning than he gets a 'prize'. Maybe a Pokemon card or stickers. Some people only give 1, but I always like to give the kids the option of getting up at least once.

[Carita]

well - we are working on it. and IF we stick to routine, he is in bed earlier and asleep faster. but that is a big IF... still working on it.