Mothering › Forums › Parenting › The Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting › Reached a level of desperation for a change in DD's bedtime drama
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Reached a level of desperation for a change in DD's bedtime drama

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Sorry for such a long post, but I want to be specific so I can get honest responses. Any wisdom is greatly appreciated! Here is our situation.

DD is 2 1/2. She has always needed to us to fall asleep (and consequently, usually throughout most of the night, too, but that's an entire other post). We never would do CIO and it just made sense to me to parent her to sleep gently. Until the age of 20 months, I simply rocked her or held her on my chest as she fell asleep, and it was nice, but we felt she reached an age that we should no longer hold/rock her.

We moved her into a toddler bed (around 20 months) at which point either DH or myself would lay next to her until she falls asleep. This takes usually 1 1/2. Additionally, DD uses us as her "lovey" meaning she likes to gently rub our arm to help her fall asleep. It gets really annoying, but at the same time, it's comforting to her and a major habit now. She also uses a paci.

Some nights it's as if her body simply cannot be still. As if she has so much energy racing through her little muscles, and despite us repeating " close your eyes and relax til you fall asleep" it's as if her body simply cannot, without taking hours. I feel terrible because DD isn't trying to be difficult- she is trying, trying, trying to go to sleep. We've tried melatonin, and it does help, but don't think it's a good idea to give it to her on a continuous basis.

She naps for usually 1.5-2.5 hours, but not usually past 3/3:30. Bedtime starts around 8:30.

We've really reach a point of desperation. We need a change but don't know what to do. Her bedtime rut causes A LOT of tension between DH and me. He is mostly the parent who puts her sleep (I'm with our baby during this time) and he is really, really frustrated with the situation and it comes through in the way he speaks to her, which bothers me greatly. I constantly remind him to use a gentle, but firm tone, and he realizes that, but still gets so irritated when he's laid in there for nearly 2 hours and she's still flopping around, awake.

"Every child her age just plays themselves to sleep! This is ridiculous!" he says. I remind him that many do, but many kids need a parent, too (or so I think, although none of the families around us are dealing with nightime issues). He doesn't believe me because he hears from so many of our friends and family who brag about how their kid just gets plopped in the crib and they chatter to themselves until falling asleep!

Here are my major concerns: that we have screwed her up in the falling-to-sleep department and that our intention to gently parent her to sleep has instead created a child who just can't fall asleep without us...ever. The best of intentions, the worst of results.

Also VERY concerned that our idea of "gentle" has turned into a pair of arguing, at-wit's-end parents which comes through in the way we react to these 1-2 hour bedtime dramas. So what if we didn't make her CIO when she was a baby if our frustration with the situation results in yelling at her to fall asleep! How terrible is that?

What can we do? Please share your thoughts, suggestions, experiences. Thank you!
post #2 of 22
You have not screwed her up, you've nurtured her and her personality. She's not someone who can fall asleep easily yet, that might come with age.

Is she willing to play alone in her room at bedtime without the "go to sleep" rule? My DD will play and then fall asleep accidentaly if I don't scare her with "go to sleep" and as long as she stays quiet and in her room I'm good with that.
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the words of encouragement.

We've never tried the "play in the room" thing because we didn't think it would work for her (I have tried it a few times for naps without luck). Maybe we should give it a chance but honestly, i'm afraid that she'll just cry if we have her "play" in her room alone with the door shut, and if we leave door open, she'll probably exit her room constantly.
post #4 of 22
I too am going through something like this with my son. the most frustrating part is weaning him off of the pacifier again. I had him off of it by 14 months, he was also laying down in bed to go sleep (usually cry for 15 minutes and then doze off). Somewhere around 18 months, everything changed. It's as if he has reverted back to everything. He still wakes at night for juice, he wants his pacifier when he's sleepy. It's crazy. I am exhausted myself (I'm a single mom), especially on the night's his father isn't here. He recently turned two and I feel like I'ms tarting all over again.

I wish I had some advice for you but I'mgoing to lurk around and what's offered to you. Maybe it can help me too.
post #5 of 22
Honestly, it sounds like she is not tired at night. If my 2 1/2 yr old has a 2.5 hour nap she is up till 10 pm. Also some children like my ds fall asleep right when tired and put in bed, others like my dd need like an hour to unwind and "puttter".
If I were you I would totally back off. Get her ready for bed at 8:30, do your whole routine and then say "OK, it is late now so go to sleep or play quietly." Then I would leave the lamp on but no bright lights (at this point a gate at the door if you wish but it will probably not work. You could just try and if it upsets her- ditch it. Did not work with my dd.) Then leave the room and go do something quiet (eg. read/ write/ computer/ Quiet tv/ sew/ rock baby to sleep whatever). She will most like follow bu if the whole house it relatively quiet and no bright lights and you are relaxed and ding something peaceful, chances are she will unwind. Let her fall asleep wherever or quietly take her to bed whne she is nodding off. Sounds odd but works. Better then fighting her 2 hours.. Around 3.5 or 4 putting them to bed the "traditional way" is much easier. Two is hard for sleep.
post #6 of 22
Read this book!

http://www.amazon.com/Sleepless-Amer...2419184&sr=8-1

We were doiing exaclty the same thing as you. We would lay down with our DS for hours. It was awful. This book will help.
post #7 of 22
You haven't screwed her up. That said, if I stay with my child, she doesn't sleep. If I leave, she does.

She is tired at night. (I mean my kid.) She is just over-tired and over-stimulated. I did not discover the fact that I was a major factor in her not sleeping until I had to figure something out when my second was born, when she was around 2.5.

Quote:
Maybe we should give it a chance but honestly, i'm afraid that she'll just cry if we have her "play" in her room alone with the door shut, and if we leave door open, she'll probably exit her room constantly.
This sounds like my daughter. Bribes. Massive bribes. "Just fall asleep, all the way asleep, for five minutes, and when you wake up, I'll give you pancakes with maple syrup." I used NCSS... standing right by the door shushhing, then moving out and shushing.

It was hard but it had to happen.

With my second, I did NCSS and it finally started to work at oh, ten months? She still wakes at night but she coos herself to sleep.

I don't think I messed DD1 up, I just got her used to one thing, and when that stopped working for me, I had to change. Change does not mean failure, it means you think she's ready.
post #8 of 22
I remember doing something with dd#1 where I'd sit with her for a while, and then say I had to do something and I'd be back in a few minutes, and I'd come back in a few minutes and sit with her, and again say I'd be back in a few minutes. Anyway, after some time I started stretching "a few minutes" out and sitting with her for shorter periods between those times, and she ended up happily falling asleep on her own. I co-slept till she was a little older than yours. Still, I think it could work with a 2.5-year-old. I think my dd was only 3 when I did it. There were no tears at all. I think she just liked being reassured that I'd be back at some point, and then seeing me follow through with that made her feel more secure.
post #9 of 22
OP - you've pretty much described my son, so I'll be watching this thread. He'll be 3 in October, and sometimes it takes upwards of 2+ hours to settle down with a parent (usually DH by this point), and this is AFTER the bedtime routine/lights out. He will not stay in his room; he would just climb a gate if we put one up. He is restless, and DH can stay with him (with his ipod on), letting DS 'burn off energy,' flopping around the bed and such.

He did fall asleep much better when we were traveling out of town, visiting family, when he got a FULL day in and went to bed late, usually after 11pm, sometimes as late as 1am.

And the thing is, DS is such an easy child (so far!), that he functions just fine on very little sleep. I *know* it would be better for him to get more sleep, and I am curious to see if there is further behavioral benefit.

I absolutely want to read these books. Thank you for the suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
This sounds like my daughter. Bribes. Massive bribes. "Just fall asleep, all the way asleep, for five minutes, and when you wake up, I'll give you pancakes with maple syrup."
I laughed out loud at this, because this was me this morning at 5am. "Just go to sleep on your own, and when you wake up, you can nurse." (He is supposedly night-weaned, and I nurse him when it gets light out. He was just trying to stay awake until it got light out, because that was my first attempt at holding him off.)
post #10 of 22
I'm in a very similar boat. When DS was a baby, it was easier to suffer through the sleep disturbances and resistances. Now that I know he understands "it's time to sleep" it makes me so upset when he keeps jumping out of bed and running out of the bedroom to play. I have tried so many things. Read the No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers & Preschoolers. Tried getting him to learn to fall asleep on his own. We are at the point where he has done it, but only after being up and nursing on and off for hours!! It's hard to celebrate when it's happening at 10:30 at night and I'm drained and angry.

Anyway for us I think there are two main problems. One, he's spirited. When he's learning something new (which is practically all the time), he can't stop to relax. When he's determined to be awake, there is basically nothing we can do about it. And he doesn't really accept any type of comfort from us except for nursing, which doesn't always get him sleeping anymore. Never took a pacifier, never wanted a lovey (when I offer one he says "NO.") Two, it is hard to get him sufficiently tired. Right now we are in an endless Texas summer and it's too hot to be outside. There aren't enough places to take him to play indoors, at least the kind of energetic climbing and running play he needs.

I have one friend who keeps saying stuff like, "if you put him in his crib, won't he eventually go to sleep?" And then I have to remind her, "well, we never have had a crib for him." We recently moved him from our bed to his own twin bed in our room. We had a few blissful nights where he went to bed without much fuss and basically slept through, and now we are back to the struggle.

I am at a loss and exhausted. It saddens me that I am not as patient with him as I could be because I'm tired and frustrated.
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
I remember doing something with dd#1 where I'd sit with her for a while, and then say I had to do something and I'd be back in a few minutes, and I'd come back in a few minutes and sit with her, and again say I'd be back in a few minutes. Anyway, after some time I started stretching "a few minutes" out and sitting with her for shorter periods between those times, and she ended up happily falling asleep on her own. I co-slept till she was a little older than yours. Still, I think it could work with a 2.5-year-old. I think my dd was only 3 when I did it. There were no tears at all. I think she just liked being reassured that I'd be back at some point, and then seeing me follow through with that made her feel more secure.
Come to think of it, I learned to do that here, too, and we do it. "Go to sleep for just five minutes... I'll check on you in five minutes to make sure you're asleep."

Someone suggested playing music (soothing, of course) from an adjoining room but that didn't work out too well for us. It was too stimulating and she'd argue about which music.
post #12 of 22
What do your days look like? Does she get outdoor exercise every day? When my children were toddlers, they had no problem going to sleep at decent times IF we had spent the day at the zoo, or 3 hours at the park with our moms club, or hiking on a trail (even with toddler in a stroller) for hours, or swimming at the beach, or playing at an indoor gym for hours. The more exercise, fresh air and activity we had during the day (outside of naps), the better my children (of all ages, actually) slept at night.

I do recall a time in toddlerhood when my DS had trouble settling himself all night long though, and we found that if we just stayed in the living room watching TV, talking, reading, whatever, and let DS just play on the floor with his toys for hours, he would eventually just tumble over and fall asleep. Then after 15 minutes, we'd carry him and put him into bed in his room.

If he awoke during the night and didn't want to sleep, I'd go lay in his room with a pillow and blanket, close the door (and put a contraption on the doorknob so he couldn't get out) and go to sleep while he played around his room. Eventually, once again, he'd fall asleep wherever he was and I'd either stay there all night, asleep, or I'd get up, transfer him to his bed and go back to mine.

It's just a temporary phase which he will grow out of, so I think it warrants gentleness and compassion.

Both my husband and I sometimes have trouble falling asleep no matter how old we get, and having someone force us to stay in bed, alone, or whatever, doesn't help. BTW, sometimes my 9 year old DD has trouble falling asleep due to her fantastic imagination, and she feels more secure if I lay with her, giving her cuddles or reading my book or iphone, while she falls asleep. It's not the end of the world. I also think it's sort of sweet that she loves us so much that she wants us near, and I know that this won't last forever. I try to focus on enjoying the closeness while it lasts.
post #13 of 22
Why would you only use the melatonin occassionally? If it seems to help her there's no reason why you shouldn't use it. It's a safe, natural way to help her body sleep.

I attended a sleep conference recently that had some newer information about how to use melatonin. A small dose (think .5 mg) in the late afternoon is more effective than a larger dose at bedtime. Maybe try that if you are uncomfortable giving her a large dose.

As far as her needing you to fall asleep, my oldest daughter needed us until she was 3 years old. My son never did like to sleep with us even as an infant. Different kids have different needs. My daughter only stopped sleeping with us when her brother was born, and they shared a room.
post #14 of 22
oh, and I don't know if this in encouraging-- but perhaps a different persective. My DH was raised in south asia, and once while pregnant I asked him how long he would consider co-sleeping with our son. "Not too long," he said. "Maybe until he's 8?" I know it's difficult when it seems everyone is getting their kids to bed independently, but 3 is still very young, and lots of cultures expect that 3 year olds still need to be parented to sleep.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
It's a safe, natural way to help her body sleep.
Melatonin is a hormone. It's not natural any more than human growth hormone is natural.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin

I am not suggesting it not be used. But just because it's EASY to extract and sold OTC does not mean it's any more natural to supplement than with any other hormone.
post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions thus far, mamas. I'm ordering the Sleepless in America book, for both my DH and me to read. He needs to do some of the reading too!

As far as the Melatonin, I've always read and heard differing opinions. I'll follow up with the link posted---thank you.

Glad to know that we're not the only family dealing with these bedtime issues!
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
I remember doing something with dd#1 where I'd sit with her for a while, and then say I had to do something and I'd be back in a few minutes, and I'd come back in a few minutes and sit with her, and again say I'd be back in a few minutes. Anyway, after some time I started stretching "a few minutes" out and sitting with her for shorter periods between those times, and she ended up happily falling asleep on her own. I co-slept till she was a little older than yours. Still, I think it could work with a 2.5-year-old. I think my dd was only 3 when I did it. There were no tears at all. I think she just liked being reassured that I'd be back at some point, and then seeing me follow through with that made her feel more secure.
Will also try this tonight!!

As far as co-sleeping until she's older, we really wouldn't consider it because we are currently co-sleeping with our 6 month-old and we only have a queen bed. Besides, she wouldn't settle down and fall asleep any faster if in our bed because we've been there done that when traveling. Takes just as long sometimes.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckymamaoftwo View Post

As far as the Melatonin, I've always read and heard differing opinions. I'll follow up with the link posted---thank you.
Well it's just Wikipedia. I know people who swear by it, and far be it from me to stop someone from getting their child to sleep, but I know when I realized it was a hormone I decided I'd rather go to a sleep consultant before trying it. I just think sometimes it's touted as, I dunno, something a little stronger than chamomile tea and I think it's more than that.
post #19 of 22
Are we going to squabble over the word 'natural'? The body makes it, and it is used by the body to regulate sleep and the circadian rhythm. It's not like anyone's using it for anything other than what the body uses it for. No need to post the wikipedia entry about it since I'm well acquainted with it. I especially enjoyed the fact that the very first sentence of the article used the word 'naturally' so thanks for the laugh.


Like I said in my answer above, even small doses are effective if you are worried about giving 'too much'. The only thing I would we leery of is that since it's not regulated there's no telling how much or little is in each pill, but that is true of all supplements.
post #20 of 22
Have you tried cutting out her nap, or waking her after 1 hr, or nap every other day instead every day? Losing a nap is a brutal transition until they get used to it, but I have BTDT and I can.not.handle lying down for 2 hours with a kid who won't go to sleep after a long day of parenting. Makes me insanely mean mommy.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Mothering › Forums › Parenting › The Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting › Reached a level of desperation for a change in DD's bedtime drama