Finding some clarity

[chicaalegre]

My husband and I are in the early, early stages of separation after being married 4.5 years. We have a 3.5 yr old DD and 11 mo old DS. We are seeing a mediator and up until a few days ago I felt really, really sure that a long-term separation was what I wanted, at the very LEAST. Our relationship has been characterized by conflict with brief periods of surface-level cooperation and we have always had problems with intimacy, trust, controlling and manipulative behavior, poor communication etc. My thinking was that we both have a lot of baggage, a lot of stuff to sift through individually and a lot of work to get ourselves to healthier places before we can really grow as a couple. Plus, I have noticed these behavior patterns as being pretty by-the-book in terms of red flags in emotionally abusive relationships. The rate of "recovery" for these relationships looks pretty grim if both parties don't undergo some pretty agressive therapy, unlearning old behavior patterns and practicing the new.

A few days ago I got proactive about it all and did some rearranging with my work schedule, applied for a spot in this affordable cooperative housing community nearby and started feeling some measure of relief and excitement for getting some space and peace, out of this chaotic and painful mess.

Then, my partner asked if I would try "one more time," to work out our differences together, in our house (that we own) before resorting to a separation. And to top it off, that night he tried to initiate sex, which hasn't happened in AWHILE. It was awkward, I was not interested at all, I told him so kindly and went to bed. These things combined to cause some major confusion and doubt in my mind about whether or not I was acting too drastically or too quickly.

Part of me feels like, this is just the start of another cycle--where he apologizes, says he's invested in working on things together, commits to therapy or exercise or other self-care stuff that might really benefit him, etc. In the past that and his good mood have lasted maybe a few weeks before returning to the same constant criticism, negativity, anger, constant bickering, etc. I have kept "trying," because I want to be fair, to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm tired of it now and I don't have much reason to expect real, lasting change. I feel somewhat paralyzed because these decisions we're facing are so major, so life-altering. If I say "I appreciate your desire to work on things and I think all those things are great, AND I still need a separation while you are doing those self-improvement activities..." that I will be the "bad guy" who isn't willing to "try more." I am torn between knowing that I HAVE tried lots of things, for a long time, and also believing that I owe this as much effort as I have because it so profoundly affects our whole lives, especially our children's lives.

I also recognize that I play a part in this, that I also practice behaviors that enable this dynamic between us, and that I believe the best way for me to outgrow them is to get some distance so I can think clearly. This, his behavior and our interactions, take up so much time in my head that it is literally making me feel crazy. I can't tell if I'm being manipulated by him or if separation really isn't the most prudent move at this point. OR if it IS the best move and I am just faltering because of self-doubt, manipulation, whatever. I just hate that at this mediation meeting, my husband will likely say something to the extent of "I wanted to work on things more, put in xy effort, SHE'S the one who wants to separate." I am coming to terms with the fact that him not having my perspective is just reality and I am not responsible for making him see things differently. I am trying not to make decisions based in fear.

The financial details to work out, should we separate, are daunting and overwhelming. We do not make much money and the childcare needs and costs of splitting up our household--well, it's hard to see how it's possible to do. I'm hoping the mediator will be able to help us hash through it and figure out Step 1, etc. My husband wants me and kids to stay in the house while he rents a room somewhere, which would be less traumatic for kids but would also require that our finances stay combined since I CAN'T afford the mortgage payments, let alone the related bills.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for from this community--empathy and shared experience is always good, of course, but maybe some tips about how you all took care of yourself in a way that enabled clear-headedness. Thanks.

[SoulCakes]

Let's pretend money isn't an issue. Let's say you have enough to move out and move on. Let's also say that you know your children's wellbeing wouldn't be impacted by a divorce--that they'd be just as happy once you've separated, maybe even happier.

How would you feel? Would you feel relieved? Would you move out tomorrow? Or is there still some nagging part of you that would want you to stay?

Clarity doesn't come from putting the pieces together in the right way to see how it could work. Clarity comes from knowing, deep down, what you actually want to do. Making it work then follows.

Look, this is a tough decision. A major decision. It may be that you realize that even though you know, deep down, that you really want to separate, that you decide to stay together anyway. That's ok. But knowing what you really want is the best place to start.

I still regret leaving my daughter's father sometimes. It's a strange sort of regret, because it's only related to the fact that he's her father--if it weren't for her, I would have left even sooner. It's not because I love him, or because I miss the good times we once shared, or because we had some deeper connection. I suppose I'll always regret not being able to stick it out with my child's dad. But then I remember how miserable it was, how I was sliding into depression, and how we wanted such different things out of life that one of us would have to give it all up for the sake of the other one. It doesn't make the twinge of regret go away, but it helps me remember why things happened the way that they did.

There's always a way to make it work. And you may always regret leaving, even if it was the right thing to do. Just start with what you really want, and work from there.

Good luck.

[single_cj]

Wow, chicaalegre, when I was reading your post I had to go back & check to make sure it wasn't ME that posted it; literally. I checked. Our stories sound SO similar! STBX & I have been married for almost 5 years (in Sept), we have a 4 year old & a soon-to-be 2 year old. We've gone round & round & round & round... therapy (him, me, both of us...), Rx meds (him), brief "good" periods before he turns back into "that guy" again.

I like how the PP put it; would you leave if it were easier & you didn't have children? I know I would have left long ago. DH just isn't willing to work, long term, on himself & on us. I'm tired of trying and waiting. I can also relate to wishing I hadn't left BECAUSE he's my children's father... I can totally understand HOW people talk themselves into staying "for the children". I still doubt myself sometimes...



A few months ago I took the MOSAIC test on a whim (to help abuse victims) to see where we stood... turns out he's VERY likely to escalate his abuse (now just emotional/sometimes verbal) in the next few years. https://www.mosaicmethod.com/

Anyway, good luck with your situation - it's crappy all 'round and it's human nature to 2nd guess yourself no matter what your decision is!

[simplemama32]

I see a lot of my situation in your post, too. For me, it was *essential* to physically remove myself from our daily life together in order to get clarity. DS and I have been living with my parents for about 5 months now, and it has allowed me enough distance from my relationship with stbx to see, REALLY see, how truly miserable our life together had become. It was hard to get a clear picture of that while still "in the trenches," so to speak. It's also reduced my stress level, so I'm able to think more clearly about what needs to be done, where do I go from here, etc. I still get overwhelmed pretty often, but at least I'm able to move through it and continue taking action, small steps at a time. That is priceless.

STBX has also told me that he feels like I'm just giving up on our relationship, and that we should give it one more try...he feels we can work it out. Well, that's great, but where was he when I was in counseling for 6 months, alone? Where was his interest, his commitment, his willingness when I tried to talk about things for YEARS, read books, asked him to read books, and was mostly ignored? This exact same thing (his sudden interest in trying and working things out) happened last fall when I tried to leave for the first time. I lasted one week, and went back to him on our anniversary because he said all the right things. It was good for about 24 hours, and then I regretted going back big time. Surprise, surprise, everything went right back to the way it was.

And yet, I still have a lot of love left for him. If he had it in him to change, to understand that he needs to change and why, then I would still go back to him, even now. But he doesn't, and he's proved that to me over and over. So for my sake, and DS's sake, we need to move on, but it makes me incredibly sad to do so. I think I'll always wonder "what if."

With all that said... If you are looking for a separation that will hopefully allow you both to work on your marriage, and grow, you might want to read Should I Stay, or Should I Go? It's all about controlled separation and how to use it to help your marriage.

[chimomma]

I, too could have practically written your post. The only real difference is that I have not yet talked to my husband about separation. I have a real problem with doubting myself. Sometimes even with simple things that are not seemingly out of my capability, I find myself thinking that it is just a crazy fantasy to think I could do XYZ. I think this self doubting is magnified when you are being abused and can be caused by the abuse itself. He wants you to feel crazy and doubt yourself.

One thing that helped me was an exercise I read in a book to do when you feel stuck. Write down a list of ten reasons why you can't do a particular thing. Then write down a list of ten reasons why you can do that thing. Sometimes just realizing you have choices opens up windows. Then you can ask yourself questions about your reasons like: is it true? Likely? What else is possible? What is most likely?

I wish all of us strength and clarity on this hard road ahead.

[BabyMae09]

I hear your personal truth in your post. You know you need to leave. You are excited about the new place you found for a very good reason.

Read Boundaries, The Continuum Concept, and The Celestine Prophecy. those helped me through similar times

[Tarielena]

Ladies, I am in a very similar situation to a lot of what you have posted. Let me share something that my husband and I have learned recently in counseling.

We meet individually right now, and the counselor has helped us to realize our patterns, me giving up who I am and letting people push those boundaries, etc., and my husband not respecting boundaries, and starting to go down the road of dishonesty. And through this my husband has made huge revelations. He sees a lot of similarities between how he treated me and how his dad treated his mom, and he truly HATES that in himself. He absolutely despises the person he has become, and that's one of the biggest lessons that this counselor has taught us:

People don't change FOR other people. They change for themselves, because THEY don't like it.

Instead of telling me "oh if you'll just stay with me I'll do X Y Z for you" my husband is saying "I truly hate the person I became and regret the things I have missed out on in the past because of it. I am changing who I am, no matter what happens between us, but I hope that you can give me another chance and let me show you what things could be like now". It's amazing, because I can literally see him becoming the person I always wanted him to be right before my eyes. The trouble is, I don't want it anymore. I let myself get TOO burned out, let him push down one too many boundary and let him get away with one too many hurtful thing, until one day my emotions just snapped and I feel like my love for him just drifted away, and I don't know if it will come back. So please, don't let yourself get to that point before you take a stand and decide not to put up with being treated like crap!

[kryztuh]

Just wanted to say that a lot of the posts on this thread really touched me. For me at least, it has been really hard to know what the 'right' thing is to do and the 'right' time to take action...