We've been dealing with some pretty tough behavior from ds(5) for about a year now. It started about 3 months before he turned 4 and right before we moved to a new town/state. I was also 4 months pregnant at the time. So in the beginning of all the transition, I think dh and I were dealing with it but also giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was a tough transition for him. Well it has been a year since the move, Ds 2 is now 8.5 months and we've yet to see any improvement. Granted he just started kindergarten last week. But this behavior has been going on ALL YEAR! Dh and I are at a complete loss, losing our patience more quickly and have both made pretty poor parenting/discipline choices when in the moment we've gotten so frustrated. We both have NEVER wanted to spank ds and both are feeling a lot of guilt for the couple of times it recently happened. I think we just feel like we are out of tools on how to deal with him effectively.
So ds has always been spirited and high needs. Although other people rarely see this because he is SUPER RESERVED/SHY (although I don't like to use that word around him). He would never/rarely act up like this in front of other people. Although we have had a couple of episodes recently where we've been out in public. We both read Unconditional Parenting and though I agree with a lot of it. This approach doesn't work when he's hit this very defiant and aggresive point. I also read a lot of The Highly Sensitive Child and felt that he had many of these qualities, but again feel like I wasn't given the tools to deal with this kind of behavior.
He will freak out about the smallest thing, often something dh and I won't even see coming. For example, taking a bag out to the car before we leave for an outing, putting ds2 in his carseat before ds(1) gets in (this is a huge battle), which cup he's going to drink out of, which toothbrush he'll use. We try to forsee these things and give him plenty of time to make a choice about how to approach a situation. But sometimes we can't see what will make him freak out. Once he does fully panic, he has a complete meltdown. He's crying, screaming, hitting, biting, starts drooling as he's crying. He's WAY out of control. At that point I seriously wonder if he has the ability to calm down. There have been times we can reason with him before he hits that point, but nothing that works every time. There are also times where I am not willing to let him take the time to make a different choice, such as hurting, or possibly hurting someone (usually his brother) or something that is unsafe. He loves his brother, but I'm sure it is tough for him to share our time and we've tried to make allowances for that. We do try to give him time with at least dh or I, such as evening bike rides, small outings to buy a chocolate milk, story times etc. I know he could probably use more time but it is tough to always find time. Sometimes he even sabatoges the outings by acting out to such a degree where we can't go.
So for example we went to buy milk yesterday. He wanted to go with me and we had been having a tough morning with him and so I thought he could use the time away from the house. I had prefaced the outing by telling him we were not buying chocolate milk while we were there(this is something dh does for him a lot). We get to the store and he flatly refuses to get out of the car and let me roll up the window. Yes, I probably could have let the window thing go, but this was after a full day of complet frustration with his defiance. I stayed calm and told him we weren't going in until he let me or he decide to roll up the window. We sat in the car for probaly a good 20 minutes, which wasn't nice for either of us considering it was over 95 degrees that day. He finally agrees to roll up the window and we go in. I'll admit I was angry and I told him so, but I was staying calm with him. We walk in and I pick out the milk. He starts wining about wanting me to buy him a yogurt. I tell him we're not getting yogurt today and we have some at home if he wants it. He refuses to walk away from the dairy case. I have no intention of grabbing him and having him scream his way out the door. So I walk out of sight (but just around the next aisle) and wait for him, which he comes around. I do this the whole way up to the cashiers, walk a short way a way but just out of sight. We get up to the cashier and check out and now that he sees that I'm actually going to go out the door and not buy the yogurt he freaks out. He starts crying and yelling at me to go back, but he follows me to the car crying the whole time. Now that we get to the car he flatly refuses to get in his carseat and buckle up. I'm staying calm and telling him we need to go and will not go anywhere until he has his seatbelt on. We are again stuck in the car for another 10-15 minutes. With me trying to reason with him and then break from talking so I can keep my cool. I finally tell him I'm going to have to call his dad to tell him we're stuck. He freaks out about me calling dh (he never likes having the other parent know when he's acting like this, not sure why since neither of us is a punitive type parent). So he actually buckles up, but then unbuckles by the time I get in the front seat. This happens a couple more times with me telling him I need dh's help and will call him. I'm next to the car at this point and then he gets out of the car trying to get my phone from me. He's trying to stick his hand in my pocket and I'm trying to gently but firmly get it out. So he starts screaming about how I'm hurting him (I am really trying to be gentle with moving his arm). So he bites me on my hand, almost drawing blood. I'm getting sympathetic looks from onlookers at this point. But I was proud of myself that I stayed fairly calm. Typically when he hits me or bites me is when I lose control of myself and get angry. So I finally convince him if he gets in the car, buckles up and CALMS DOWN I will let him have my phone to call his dad. The next part of our outing was to possibly go see our friends chickens if she was home and dh was supposed to call us if she called. So he really wanted to call his dad and ask about seeing the chickens. (regardless I had NO intention at this point of letting him go see the chickens whether she had called or not. We finally are driving home after I had to use the child lock for the door and window to keep him in the car. I don't talk to him on the way home, except for short yes and no's. I'm not so much trying to punish him, I was just so angry at this point I didn't want to talk to him. We came home and I let dh talk to him and I went a took a break to cool down.
Dh and I are wondering whether we have been consitent enough with having consequences. I lean towards natural consequences while he's is inclined towards traditional consequential outcomes like taking XYZ away if he doesn't do something. I just never understood how taking his favorite toy away because he wouldn't brush his teeth is relating anything to ds. Obviously if he's throwing said toy at someone I can see taking it away for a certain amount of time.
We've never tolerated this kind of behavior, but obviously whatever we've been trying to help him manage his anger, frustration, anxiety is not working. We've tried to help him take time in his room to calm down (not forcing him in there as a time out). Usually we end up in there with toys being thrown at us. I never wanted to lock him in his room during this behavior. But he rarely chooses to go to his room on his own. We've tried walking away, which occasionally has worked but then sometimes just has him coming after us and hitting us. I've gone into the bathroom to get away, especially if I know I'm about to lose control but then he ends up kicking and throwing things at the door.
He really is becoming defiant like yelling at us when we tell him he can't do something, what he did wasn't kind, or try to redirect him. He'll scream "Daddy/Mama don't talk to me" or "NO", "NO I don't!" or "You're bossy!"
I'm just so fed up and frustrated. I feel like this is becoming a daily occurance and dh and I can't remember the last time we had a calm day without some huge drama with ds. Last night he just refused to go to bed and after we both spent over an hour trying to get him there. Firmly talking about getting ready, telling him he wouldn't have time to read his books, giving up on brushing his teeth, and even cuddling with him in a chair trying to help him talk to me about why he didn't want to go to bed. Nothing helped. We ended up going to bed and dh got up later and found him asleep on his little toy couch in his room with his toothbrush in his hand.
Hoping for a better day today...... I feel guilty for thinking how grateful I'll be while he's at school. I'll miss him I know, but still grateful I don't have to be with him all day at home. Sounds awful I know.
Thanks if you've managed to get all the way through this.... I'm out of ideas.
So ds has always been spirited and high needs. Although other people rarely see this because he is SUPER RESERVED/SHY (although I don't like to use that word around him). He would never/rarely act up like this in front of other people. Although we have had a couple of episodes recently where we've been out in public. We both read Unconditional Parenting and though I agree with a lot of it. This approach doesn't work when he's hit this very defiant and aggresive point. I also read a lot of The Highly Sensitive Child and felt that he had many of these qualities, but again feel like I wasn't given the tools to deal with this kind of behavior.
He will freak out about the smallest thing, often something dh and I won't even see coming. For example, taking a bag out to the car before we leave for an outing, putting ds2 in his carseat before ds(1) gets in (this is a huge battle), which cup he's going to drink out of, which toothbrush he'll use. We try to forsee these things and give him plenty of time to make a choice about how to approach a situation. But sometimes we can't see what will make him freak out. Once he does fully panic, he has a complete meltdown. He's crying, screaming, hitting, biting, starts drooling as he's crying. He's WAY out of control. At that point I seriously wonder if he has the ability to calm down. There have been times we can reason with him before he hits that point, but nothing that works every time. There are also times where I am not willing to let him take the time to make a different choice, such as hurting, or possibly hurting someone (usually his brother) or something that is unsafe. He loves his brother, but I'm sure it is tough for him to share our time and we've tried to make allowances for that. We do try to give him time with at least dh or I, such as evening bike rides, small outings to buy a chocolate milk, story times etc. I know he could probably use more time but it is tough to always find time. Sometimes he even sabatoges the outings by acting out to such a degree where we can't go.
So for example we went to buy milk yesterday. He wanted to go with me and we had been having a tough morning with him and so I thought he could use the time away from the house. I had prefaced the outing by telling him we were not buying chocolate milk while we were there(this is something dh does for him a lot). We get to the store and he flatly refuses to get out of the car and let me roll up the window. Yes, I probably could have let the window thing go, but this was after a full day of complet frustration with his defiance. I stayed calm and told him we weren't going in until he let me or he decide to roll up the window. We sat in the car for probaly a good 20 minutes, which wasn't nice for either of us considering it was over 95 degrees that day. He finally agrees to roll up the window and we go in. I'll admit I was angry and I told him so, but I was staying calm with him. We walk in and I pick out the milk. He starts wining about wanting me to buy him a yogurt. I tell him we're not getting yogurt today and we have some at home if he wants it. He refuses to walk away from the dairy case. I have no intention of grabbing him and having him scream his way out the door. So I walk out of sight (but just around the next aisle) and wait for him, which he comes around. I do this the whole way up to the cashiers, walk a short way a way but just out of sight. We get up to the cashier and check out and now that he sees that I'm actually going to go out the door and not buy the yogurt he freaks out. He starts crying and yelling at me to go back, but he follows me to the car crying the whole time. Now that we get to the car he flatly refuses to get in his carseat and buckle up. I'm staying calm and telling him we need to go and will not go anywhere until he has his seatbelt on. We are again stuck in the car for another 10-15 minutes. With me trying to reason with him and then break from talking so I can keep my cool. I finally tell him I'm going to have to call his dad to tell him we're stuck. He freaks out about me calling dh (he never likes having the other parent know when he's acting like this, not sure why since neither of us is a punitive type parent). So he actually buckles up, but then unbuckles by the time I get in the front seat. This happens a couple more times with me telling him I need dh's help and will call him. I'm next to the car at this point and then he gets out of the car trying to get my phone from me. He's trying to stick his hand in my pocket and I'm trying to gently but firmly get it out. So he starts screaming about how I'm hurting him (I am really trying to be gentle with moving his arm). So he bites me on my hand, almost drawing blood. I'm getting sympathetic looks from onlookers at this point. But I was proud of myself that I stayed fairly calm. Typically when he hits me or bites me is when I lose control of myself and get angry. So I finally convince him if he gets in the car, buckles up and CALMS DOWN I will let him have my phone to call his dad. The next part of our outing was to possibly go see our friends chickens if she was home and dh was supposed to call us if she called. So he really wanted to call his dad and ask about seeing the chickens. (regardless I had NO intention at this point of letting him go see the chickens whether she had called or not. We finally are driving home after I had to use the child lock for the door and window to keep him in the car. I don't talk to him on the way home, except for short yes and no's. I'm not so much trying to punish him, I was just so angry at this point I didn't want to talk to him. We came home and I let dh talk to him and I went a took a break to cool down.
Dh and I are wondering whether we have been consitent enough with having consequences. I lean towards natural consequences while he's is inclined towards traditional consequential outcomes like taking XYZ away if he doesn't do something. I just never understood how taking his favorite toy away because he wouldn't brush his teeth is relating anything to ds. Obviously if he's throwing said toy at someone I can see taking it away for a certain amount of time.
We've never tolerated this kind of behavior, but obviously whatever we've been trying to help him manage his anger, frustration, anxiety is not working. We've tried to help him take time in his room to calm down (not forcing him in there as a time out). Usually we end up in there with toys being thrown at us. I never wanted to lock him in his room during this behavior. But he rarely chooses to go to his room on his own. We've tried walking away, which occasionally has worked but then sometimes just has him coming after us and hitting us. I've gone into the bathroom to get away, especially if I know I'm about to lose control but then he ends up kicking and throwing things at the door.
He really is becoming defiant like yelling at us when we tell him he can't do something, what he did wasn't kind, or try to redirect him. He'll scream "Daddy/Mama don't talk to me" or "NO", "NO I don't!" or "You're bossy!"
I'm just so fed up and frustrated. I feel like this is becoming a daily occurance and dh and I can't remember the last time we had a calm day without some huge drama with ds. Last night he just refused to go to bed and after we both spent over an hour trying to get him there. Firmly talking about getting ready, telling him he wouldn't have time to read his books, giving up on brushing his teeth, and even cuddling with him in a chair trying to help him talk to me about why he didn't want to go to bed. Nothing helped. We ended up going to bed and dh got up later and found him asleep on his little toy couch in his room with his toothbrush in his hand.
Hoping for a better day today...... I feel guilty for thinking how grateful I'll be while he's at school. I'll miss him I know, but still grateful I don't have to be with him all day at home. Sounds awful I know.
Thanks if you've managed to get all the way through this.... I'm out of ideas.
I wish I would have learned that sooner, and saved us all some grief. So I typically say something like, "WOAH! No way buddy, let's go" and walk with him up to his room (or somewhere secluded depending on where we are), and then try to get him into an activity where he can zone out a little so his brain goes out of overdrive - sometimes that's a book, sometimes it's a computer game. THEN, after he's fully calmed down (which is usually about 10 min), we'll talk about what happened. Initially I felt like I was "rewarding" the meltdown (especially when I accidentally found out a computer game like chuzzle or tetris calms him down super quickly) but then I realized, *this* is the way his brain needs to calm down, and when he's in a frenzy like that he really can't control it. SO after he's calm, we really do discuss what happened, and it's not like he's "getting away with" anything - if he did something he shouldn't have, he makes amends, or whatever we've decided beforehand is an appropriate thing (we talk about consequences for things before situations/events). But short circuiting the hyperdrive his brain goes into when that happens is the top priority here. When I was trying to work with him in the moment, it was just overloading his brain and emotions and making it take 3 times longer to get to the point where he could talk about it, and making him a lot more upset (and me too).
