Books in Language Arts you think may be innappropriate

[kathymuggle]

My DD may be going to school in a few weeks - her choice.

This is a small knit community and I know which books are assigned in grade 7 - Lord of the Flies, the Pearl, Where the Red Fern Grows, Old Yeller, Of Mice and Men. If it is dark and depressing they assign it (on a mild vent - they will not allow The Simpson to be shown in class as it is "age inappropriate" - but they are reading Lord of the Flies???)

I am not sure what, if anything to do about it.

To be clear I do not think these books are Ok for her age (which is 11 - she has a very late birthday) and she is a sensitive child.

WWYD in these circumstances? Nothing? Ask that she is assigned an independant project instead of these books (probably done somewhere else other than the classroom as I am sure they will be discussing them) or offer to homeschool her for this subject - and while this subject is talking place she can either come home or go to another class.

I do not want to be a total PITA - and I do not want to tell them how to do their jobs (go ahead and teach these books to the class); I just do not want my child exposed to them yet - and if she ever chooses to read them it should be her choice.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

This is a small knit community and I know which books are assigned in grade 7 - Lord of the Flies, the Pearl, Where the Red Fern Grows, Old Yeller, Of Mice and Men.

Those are all classic novels generally considered appropriate for this age. It is, however, more novels than most 7th grade literature classes read (from what I've seen). Are you sure they are reading all of these?

To be clear I do not think these books are Ok for her age (which is 11 - she has a very late birthday) and she is a sensitive child.

I wouldn't do anything unless and until there is a problem. It's possible that the teacher will do a great job with them, that your DD will get a lot out of it, and that she is stronger than you realize.

My kids, who are now 12 and 13, enjoy more emotionally intense books that I would have guessed.

Last year their favorite novel was one that my then 6th grader read for school about a young Polish girl during WWII. She felt it was such a good book that she recommended her sister read it, and her sister then passed it to me. I hated it. I found it deeply depressing. They both felt it was a good and important book.

In their free time, they enjoy watching South Park. I can't make sense of their taste. Because of this, I would just wait and see what happens. Your DD might surprise you.

[velochic]

Well, I want to reply, but don't know exactly what to say. The books listed really are great books and I think age appropriate for 7th grade. For lack of a better way to put it... it's the nature of the beast when you are participating in school. You can't control every aspect of the education the way you can at home and there are always things that are questionable. Literature, and the critical evaluation of it, is part of becoming a well-rounded person. Before you can explore a theme, you have to have a book that has a theme to explore. By their very nature, these themes will offend some subset of the population for one reason or another, but if you read only benign books, then they're really not worth exploring, anyway.

However, I do know EXACTLY what you are saying. Just because one *can* read a book, doesn't mean they *should*. Dd, in 2nd grade, came home with the Red Badge of Courage (she picked it out at the library... and this library is for only prek - 3rd graders). While she was *able* to read it, I questioned whether she should read it. In the end, we read it together, she had lots of really mature and insightful questions and was no worse for wear, I don't think, for reading it in spite of all the death that is in it.

Perhaps the best course of action is that you engage your dd in discussions at home about these books you find objectionable and you can explore WHY you don't think they are appropriate and at the same time, guide your sensitive dd through the themes. If you really think that these are too much for your dd's sensitivities, then definitely talk to the teacher, at least. If you go in with an approachable, "How can we work through this together", manner with the teacher, I'm sure it would be worth it.

As for the Simpsons... I honestly can't think of even one single redeeming value of that show, so I'm going to side with the school on that one. IMHO, it's not fit for human consumption, so-to-speak.

Good luck! I hope you find a solution that works for everyone.

[Thalia the Muse]

I don't think any of those are inappropriate for seventh grade. Where the Red Fern Grows and Old Yeller (although sad) I think were actually written for younger kids.

[Drummer's Wife]

I also don't see why any of those titles would be inappropriate for a 7th grader - even a sensitive one.

[ollyoxenfree]

I have a fair amount of sympathy too, because I think there is an over-emphasis on dreary, values-laden, it's-only-worth-reading-if-the-dog-dies-in-the-end narratives for young readers. It's the same thing that I see with adult book clubs. It's only good if it's good for you.

I wouldn't dispute the age-appropriateness of any individual title listed. An entire year with a diet of only those books for reading consumption will likely turn some, if not most, students off of reading forever.

God forbid that students get to read something funny and thrilling. They might actually develop a sense of humour and a taste for adventure that helps foster the kind of resiliency that's needed when the dog, or the parent, or the best friend, dies in real life.

ETA: As for what to do, I think it's fine to discuss the reading list with the teacher, from the point of view that there's a lot of other great children's literature out there and this list is pretty narrow. A friendly chat about the course curriculum isn't out of line. How about a unit on comedic writing, as a counterpoint to all the tragedy. Is there a poetry unit? Non-fiction writing unit? Lots of great reading for children. They don't have to stew in the ills of the world for month after month to get a great education in language arts.

[kathymuggle]

Musing aloud here....

Ah, but the thing is...I get many people do not find them inappropriate, but in some ways that is irrelevant. I am not here to debate whether they are appropriate or not - just looking for advice on what I should do about the fact that I do not want my child reading them at this point.

FWIW, I have read all the book listed (except Where the Red Fern Grows) - this is not an uniformed decision.

[Maggie05]

As a high school teacher, I would just add this: It is a personal pet peeve of mine when middle school teachers assign books that are traditionally done on the high school level. Lord of the Flies is one of these books. Lord of the Flies, while not terribly difficult to read, is rich with complex symbolism, and the dark nature of the story is best left to a student at the high school level.

There are so many fantastic young adult novels out there, that it boggles my mind why middle school teachers feel the need to select high school texts to teach.

The other books seem ok for the level, but I agree that sometimes there could be a happy ending...the trouble is that there are less books of this type from which to choose..

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

I have a fair amount of sympathy too, because I think there is an over-emphasis on dreary, values-laden, it's-only-worth-reading-if-the-dog-dies-in-the-end narratives for young readers. It's the same thing that I see with adult book clubs. It's only good if it's good for you.

I wouldn't dispute the age-appropriateness of any individual title listed. An entire year with a diet of only those books for reading consumption will likely turn some, if not most, students off of reading forever.

God forbid that students get to read something funny and thrilling. They might actually develop a sense of humour and a taste for adventure that helps foster the kind of resiliency that's needed when the dog, or the parent, or the best friend, dies in real life.

ETA: As for what to do, I think it's fine to discuss the reading list with the teacher, from the point of view that there's a lot of other great children's literature out there and this list is pretty narrow. A friendly chat about the course curriculum isn't out of line. How about a unit on comedic writing, as a counterpoint to all the tragedy. Is there a poetry unit? Non-fiction writing unit? Lots of great reading for children. They don't have to stew in the ills of the world for month after month to get a great education in language arts.

Thank you.

I did have these exact thoughts - it is not only the dreary nature, but the book after book of dreary nature that concerns me. I did not mention it earlier as I did not feel it was relevant to my "what do I do about the situation?"

I could talk to the teacher - but I doubt they have much say in what books they teach (I could be wrong). I will certainly ask for the course outline and what books will be studied. I won't know unless I try, though!

[ollyoxenfree]

IME, teachers have some flexibility in choosing books for their classes. It might be hard to persuade a teacher to change if they have already developed their lesson plans for the year.

I've challenged myself to come up with a list of titles that a middle school language arts program could use. You might want to post in the Books thread, and maybe in Learn at Home too (always good suggestions there) for some suggestions of books with humour and adventure, rather than tragedy, that also provide interesting writing techniques, rich symbolism, different POVs, use of setting and character elements to develop the story etc. - all the "educational" stuff that gets a book onto the curriculum.

Last year in middle school, DD studied As You Like It, and I think DS studied Midsummer's Night's Dream in the same grade. I know he did The Merchant of Venice, but I'm focusing on comedies here.

Hatchet is a good survival story (although I admit there is one death early on) that's a perennial favourite of middle school classes.

I'll keep trying to think of a few more. Perhaps a list will help the teacher expand horizons a little.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

just looking for advice on what I should do about the fact that I do not want my child reading them at this point.

I think that in 7th grade, the choice should be hers, not yours.

I don't believe in censorship at all. My parents tried it with me and it failed. I read all the books they didn't want me to read, I just did it secretly.

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

they will not allow The Simpson to be shown in class as it is "age inappropriate" - but they are reading Lord of the Flies???)

There is a great Simpsons "Lord of the Flies" episode. I am a die-hard fan.

I wouldn't worry about that list. Our kids are exposed to soooooo much junk that we can be naive that they are too delicate for certain things. As long as you have an open relationship with your dc and can talk about it, I don't think any of those books are above them.

I am a bit suprised that you would be fine letting them watch the simpsons but get upset that they would read Of Mice and Men.

I also agree with the pp who said they should choose a wider variety of things and that some of those books are snoozers.

"I hate John Knowles"
"Me too."
(a little more simpsons spilling out.

[Drummer's Wife]

I guess the other thing is, if you don't trust the school/teachers to choose appropriate books for the students, why do you trust them to provide your DD's education? I know you said it's her decision to go to school, and that she may be going this year instead of homeschooling, but I just think it should be all or nothing. I mean, I could see opting out of DARE or something, but English class? I assume the teacher knows what most 7th graders are capable of comprehending.

I also don't agree with censoring reading material - and really, the books on that list are tame - a bit dreary, yes, but maybe the experience of the teacher is that those are the books that students tend to actually read and get something out of?

My opinions of the books aren't relevant, as you've said - but I guess if my child was assigned something I wasn't comfortable with I would have to look at the potential harm in her reading it vs. the potential harm in being outcast as a student who wasn't allowed to read them. If the teacher has to give alternate assignments, it would mean your child wouldn't be participating in all the activities and discussions related to the books. She would get the gist of the story, unless she left the room every day. I just don't see how practical that would be, much less how your DD would feel.

[Geofizz]

I have a very sensitive daughter as well. Instead of withdrawing her from the activities which require books outside her comfort zone, I've been giving her the skills to cope. We discuss foreshadowing, symbolism, and deeper intents of literature. We start early to give her the chance to digest in smaller pieces if necessary. She knows she can skip to the last chapter to see how it ends up. We find a synopsis of the story to read first.

I was a really sensitive kid. I'm still sensitive to enough of these things that I rarely watch movies, and many books are skimmed in the darker parts. And yet, I read all those books in the 5-8 grade level as part of my English classes, and seem to make up a fairly typical middle school curriculum. Some were really hard to take, but I do think that the themes introduced even in Lord of the Flies is appropriate to the growing and expanding minds of middle schoolers.

[Aquitane]

When I taught 6th grade, we read A Wrinkle In Time. One parent would not let her son read it because she felt Mrs. Who, Mrs. Which, and Mrs. Whatsit were witches and a sign of the devil. (Yes, I tried to explain what they were...no, it didn't work...)

I allowed him to read something else. It was difficult because the class was doing a lot of activities centered on the novel, so sometimes he was excluded, but I felt that it was a good compromise.

It might be a little more difficult if you don't allow your DD to read any of the material. Your idea of homeschooling for the subject might be an option, since otherwise it would be hard having one student who could not do any of the curriculum.

Oh, and I don't want you to think that I think your thoughts about those books aren't valid based on my first paragraph. In fact I think some of the books are rather "old" for seventh grade. And Where the Red Fern Grows and Old Yeller in the same year? I guess it would be a good match you could compare, but still, wayyy sad.

[journeymom]

You say your dd is sensitive. You're concerned about the repeated exposure to such dreary books. So how do you anticipate these books will affect your daughter? What will happen to her if she reads them?

I second another person's comment, that it's possible that they won't be reading all of these books, only some of them. Maybe this is just the list of books that the teacher will select from.

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

I have a fair amount of sympathy too, because I think there is an over-emphasis on dreary, values-laden, it's-only-worth-reading-if-the-dog-dies-in-the-end narratives for young readers. It's the same thing that I see with adult book clubs. It's only good if it's good for you.

I wouldn't dispute the age-appropriateness of any individual title listed. An entire year with a diet of only those books for reading consumption will likely turn some, if not most, students off of reading forever.

God forbid that students get to read something funny and thrilling. They might actually develop a sense of humour and a taste for adventure that helps foster the kind of resiliency that's needed when the dog, or the parent, or the best friend, dies in real life.

ETA: As for what to do, I think it's fine to discuss the reading list with the teacher, from the point of view that there's a lot of other great children's literature out there and this list is pretty narrow. A friendly chat about the course curriculum isn't out of line. How about a unit on comedic writing, as a counterpoint to all the tragedy. Is there a poetry unit? Non-fiction writing unit? Lots of great reading for children. They don't have to stew in the ills of the world for month after month to get a great education in language arts.

Originally Posted by Maggie05

As a high school teacher, I would just add this: It is a personal pet peeve of mine when middle school teachers assign books that are traditionally done on the high school level. Lord of the Flies is one of these books. Lord of the Flies, while not terribly difficult to read, is rich with complex symbolism, and the dark nature of the story is best left to a student at the high school level.

There are so many fantastic young adult novels out there, that it boggles my mind why middle school teachers feel the need to select high school texts to teach.

The other books seem ok for the level, but I agree that sometimes there could be a happy ending...the trouble is that there are less books of this type from which to choose..

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Aquitane

When I taught 6th grade, we read A Wrinkle In Time. One parent would not let her son read it because she felt Mrs. Who, Mrs. Which, and Mrs. Whatsit were witches and a sign of the devil. (Yes, I tried to explain what they were...no, it didn't work...)

[lach]

Can you ask that she have an extra study hall instead of English class, and then homeschool her for English? In 7th grade, they usually do some SAT vocabulary, a bit of grammar, and weekly writing assignments (or about that), but most of the class will be reading discussions. It will probably be hard for her to even be in class if she's not reading any of the books.

I'd ask to borrow a copy of their vocabulary curriculum and their grammar textbook, and then pick books that you find more appropriate to read and discuss at home.

I do have to chime in that all of those books sound perfectly age appropriate for a 7th grader. I read most of them in 7th or 8th grade. My sister had to read Brave New World in 6th grade: now THAT I find inappropriate. Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite books: but there's an awful lot of sex.

[kathymuggle]

So many people have valid points and I want to thank you for sharing. Lots to think about!

Kathy

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by lach

I do have to chime in that all of those books sound perfectly age appropriate for a 7th grader. I read most of them in 7th or 8th grade. My sister had to read Brave New World in 6th grade: now THAT I find inappropriate. Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite books: but there's an awful lot of sex.

This is a little off topic (and not directed at you in particular), but I can't resist.....

I find it interesting that Brave New World is inappropriate due to sex, but the list of books I cited at the top is OK - even though every one of them involves an animal or person being killed. I wonder if it is a cultural thing - sex is bad, heck The Simpsons are bad - but violence is not????