Adoption related-Still food obsessed - Page 4

[WC_hapamama]

I ran your DD's numbers through a growth chart percentile calculator, at at 19 months old, she's in the 16th percentile for weight and 4th for height. Doesn't strike me as particularly chubby.

[earthmama4]

Bloated belly is a tell-tale sign of celiac disease. I am suspected celiac and when I have gluten for any extended period I become voraciously hungry and no food satisfies it. Its is because my gut gets damaged, and I stop absorbing nutrients from my food! I don't lose weight, in fact, I often gain it! But I am malnourished all the same. Its counterintuitive, I know. But I have lived it. I would consider a gluten free trial, and lots and lots and lots of nourishing foods.

[ssh]

Restricting food in small children can cause an obsession about food and lead to obesity. It's better to control a child's diet by picking the types of foods instead of restricting the amount. The bloating sounds like a food intolerance or something else physically wrong rather than chubbiness. Also if the baby has ever had a period of being hungry it could effect her eating habits even if she's had enough food for a long time. If she can't eat raw carrot or celery sticks what about steamed carrot, zucchini or broccoli sticks? Small tomatoes and strawberries have a low glycemic index and as fairly low calorie too.

[iamleabee]

Originally Posted by lolar2

This is a blog post/ essay that might help you not to feel so afraid of letting her eat until she is full:

http://ccafeteria.blogspot.com/2007/...d-feeding.html

And another:

http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index...ng-my-kid-fat/

The belly bloating and deflating can't be "fat" or it wouldn't deflate.

*nods head*

[TTCH785]

Update

Hi,

thanks for the continued replies. Nothing has improved here, in fact she has gotten worse. I have tried gluten free and not much changed. She still bloats, even with water, and someone mentioned it is because she has such weak abdominal muscles? She has an umbilical hernia and possibly her rectus (sp?) muscle is separated, so someone I know mentioned that could be why her stomach gets big even after drinking water. It is like when I was pregnant with my first child and had such great muscles in my abdomen and didn't show until I was 6 months pregnant, but later pregnancies showed much sooner because of weaker muscles. Don't know if this is the reason or not. Also, she has very normal bowel movements, which I heard it NOT indicative of a wheat/gluten intolerance.
Here is something else I don't understand, and would love some feedback on: She has gained at least 2 pounds in the last 2 months. If she was still "needing" more, would she be gaining weight? I have heard from many people that their kds eat enormous amounts, but they are so active they really don't gain too quickly. My DD is NOT active, part of which I attribute to her food obsession. I say that she is just sitting around waiting for her next meal on most days.
If she were active and burning all those calories off, I could certainly understand her needing to eat more. But she was gaining even on 900 calories (approx) a day.

Here's my newest theory. Fats. She needs to eat more FATS. I give her peanut butter in her oatmeal, and she usually has yogurt and cashew butter with her lunch, and meat with her dinner. But other than that, she mostly eats carbs and some vegetables. I don't know why this would even be an issue, though, because my other children didn't even eat meat at all until they were at least this age, and they never felt hungry like this. They also NEVER drank milk. They had formula until they were 2, and my 3rd child never even drank formula after the age of 1. It was just food and water. No milk.
Would a deficiency in essential fatty acids cause her symptoms? I read that a deficiency could also cause a decrease in your metabolism and make you gain weight faster than the average person.


Thanks,

Anna

[Mrs. Bratton]

I am no expert by any means but I really think that the problem is that since she came home with you no one has been responding to HER feeding cues. What if she wasn't being overfed in the orphanage? What if she was being fed just enough? I have never really heard of overfeeding a 9mo. We just followed her cues.

Number one I would stop comparing her to your other children. I know it's hard b/c we always want to relate our current situation to past experience but every child is different, even the ones who are biological siblings, but especially her since she is not related to your other children. Second, I would just let her eat until SHE is full. You say she is a bottomless pit and that she will never stop but you don't really know. You have never tried it. My 23 month old goes through times when she eats more than me or my husband. I don't care what the ped said. I would never restrict calories on a child under 2. (unless they were making themselves sick).

I don't understand how you even know there is a problem. What if the only problem is that she requires a larger amount of food than you and the medical professionals deem appropriate? I wouldn't worry at all until you see what happens when she is allowed to eat how much SHE wants. Especially if she is only in the 16th percentile. I really just think the problem is that she has not been getting enough/the right foods. I would also be interested to hear a breakdown of a typical day's menu.

None of that was meant to be a rude as it sounded. I just really think she needs more food. Seems simple to me I would at least try it.

[Minxie]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Bratton

I am no expert by any means but I really think that the problem is that since she came home with you no one has been responding to HER feeding cues. What if she wasn't being overfed in the orphanage? What if she was being fed just enough? I have never really heard of overfeeding a 9mo. We just followed her cues.

Number one I would stop comparing her to your other children. I know it's hard b/c we always want to relate our current situation to past experience but every child is different, even the ones who are biological siblings, but especially her since she is not related to your other children. Second, I would just let her eat until SHE is full. You say she is a bottomless pit and that she will never stop but you don't really know. You have never tried it. My 23 month old goes through times when she eats more than me or my husband. I don't care what the ped said. I would never restrict calories on a child under 2. (unless they were making themselves sick).

I don't understand how you even know there is a problem. What if the only problem is that she requires a larger amount of food than you and the medical professionals deem appropriate? I wouldn't worry at all until you see what happens when she is allowed to eat how much SHE wants. Especially if she is only in the 16th percentile. I really just think the problem is that she has not been getting enough/the right foods. I would also be interested to hear a breakdown of a typical day's menu.

None of that was meant to be a rude as it sounded. I just really think she needs more food. Seems simple to me I would at least try it.

Especially the bolded parts.

[lach]

I agree with the above two posts. I'm really surprised that a pediatrician suggested putting her on such a restrictive diet. Because 900 calories is a restrictive diet for a young toddler. Even if you don't think that she's active, her mind and body are growing at a phenomenal rate, and toddlers have very high metabolisms for that very reason. Restricting food will restrict her mental and physical growth.

Respectfully, I have to plead with you to please see another doctor, and to let her eat her full.

[iamleabee]

one thing to remember is that we cannot control the bodies of our children. we can't make tall children short and vice versa. your daughter is adopted, who knows what size she is "meant" to be? it's not a fight you will ever win, trying to make her eat less than she wants...she'll just fight you now by being sullen and later by hiding food. let her eat until she's full, stop counting her calories, and just try to provide her the most nutritious foods you can.

[cheer mom]

I don't think that gaining 2 pounds in 2 months is a problem with such a young child. She is growing.

She needs more milk. She is TELLING you that she needs more food. You became her mother because it was what SHE needed. Yet you are feeding her based on YOUR needs and not HER needs.

please, go see another doctor--and a nutritionist. and perhaps a therapist.

[pumpkingirl71]

Anna,

Just wanted to point out that there has been a lot of forum crashing on this thread. That is fine and all, but I just wanted to point out that the "rules" for raising a child in AP fashion do not always apply to adopted children. For example, someone pointed out that a nine month old can't over eat. That may be true when a child is adequately parented, but in an orphanage when a bottle is the only comfort or pastime, children do become overly attached to eating.

Please don't let well meaning people let you doubt yourself. It is more than likely that your daughter does have some disordered thinking about eating. Follow your gut, but always be open to new ways to help your daughter

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by pumpkingirl71

Anna,

Just wanted to point out that there has been a lot of forum crashing on this thread. That is fine and all, but I just wanted to point out that the "rules" for raising a child in AP fashion do not always apply to adopted children. For example, someone pointed out that a nine month old can't over eat. That may be true when a child is adequately parented, but in an orphanage when a bottle is the only comfort or pastime, children do become overly attached to eating.

Please don't let well meaning people let you doubt yourself. It is more than likely that your daughter does have some disordered thinking about eating. Follow your gut, but always be open to new ways to help your daughter

Yes. Even though i think it IS possible she is being underfed (and personally i think 10 oz of milk is nowhere near enough, if kids drink milk shouldnt they have at least 24 oz, esp kids under 2??), or not being fed the right kinds of food (deciding to increase the fats is a good idea!)...i think if this mom thinks something is OFF about her daughter's apparently "obsession" is food, there is likely something to that. And it may not be a matter of "feeding her enough", esp if these behaviors have become ingrained.

If a baby's only source of sucking and comfort is a propped bottle, then of course they will choose "overfeeding" over the loss of that comfort.

[queenjane]

Here is something else I don't understand, and would love some feedback on: She has gained at least 2 pounds in the last 2 months. If she was still "needing" more, would she be gaining weight?

Sure she would...lets say if, due to her growth spurt at the time, she is "supposed" to be gaining three or four pounds...and she only gains two. To you, its "look she gained two pounds!" but to her body its like "oh no we've lost two pounds!"

[mamadebug]

Originally Posted by ram3113

Hi,


Here is something else I don't understand, and would love some feedback on: She has gained at least 2 pounds in the last 2 months. If she was still "needing" more, would she be gaining weight? I have heard from many people that their kds eat enormous amounts, but they are so active they really don't gain too quickly.

Yes, even though she is gaining weight, she may still not be getting enough for her.

I had feeding issues (breast feeding issues) with my (bio) son. He was a big baby (9lbs 1 0z) at birth and was 14 lbs 11 oz at his 8 week check. He had been gaining weight at what seemed like a perfectly fine rate, but always seemed hungry and cried all the time. It was the third lactation consultant I saw after we had suffered through weeks of non-stop nursing, non-stop crying and me being incredibly sore who told me that my baby was gaining weight at a totally fine rate for most babies - But that my kiddo needed more food than most babies and so to feed him more (supplement with formula). She pointed out that by the numbers (age and amount of weight gain), it looked fine. But, not all babies follow those numbers. My kid, and maybe your kid, needed more food to be satisfied and was simply a bigger kid who was going to grow at a fast rate.

I realize of course that my child didn't have the same food background as your child and that in the example I am giving, my DS was a different age. But, I give it as an example because according to the numbers, he should have been fine. He wasn't though. It took 3 different professionals to help me with this and what the lactation consultant got was that this kid needed something more than the average kiddo because he was growing at a faster rate than the average kiddo. Just because your DD is gaining, she may still need more.

Please try giving her more milk - what you are giving her doesn't sound at all like enough to me.

[christophersmom]

Anna -

How much milk is she getting now? Have you tried the letting her eat as much as she wants for a few days yet? If so, what happened? What has her diet been recently?

DD also has a big belly. DS never did. They have different body types as infants/toddlers. You also don't know how tall she will be. It could be she needs to eat because she needs to grow at a faster rate or will be taller.

My DD is younger than yours (also adopted, but brought home at 5 months). She gets 14 ounces of formula and another 8 of milk. She also eats a lot of protein versus DS who ate mostly grains fruits and veggies.

I do hope things get better.

[JollyGG]

Originally Posted by ram3113

Here is something else I don't understand, and would love some feedback on: She has gained at least 2 pounds in the last 2 months. If she was still "needing" more, would she be gaining weight?

I have naturally large children. My son was consistently above the 95% for height and weight. My daughter was usually around the 75% for both.

If they were supposed to be in the 50% and were only in the 20% and were gaining weight steadily at a rate keeping them at the 20% that would still be unnatural for them as they should be eating enough to gain and maintain their natural body weight at the 50%. Does that make sense? So therefore even thought they would be gaining it wouldn't necessarily be enough.

[TTCH785]

Info. on typical eating schedule/amounts

Ok someone asked that I post info. on what my DD eats in a typical day. Here goes. But I also wish I could post a picture of her, because although she is in a low percentile for weight, she is also in a low percentile for her height and NOONE that saw her wouldn't think she was a little chubby. Her thighs are quite chubby (in a healthy toddler looking way), and she has quite the pot belly. I am not saying she is fat by any means, but she seems to me to be perfectly proportioned and seems like a typical toddler except for the huge belly.

Morning: 1/2 cup oatmeal (dry), cooks up to over a cup, and I add 1T of peanut butter with flaxseed oil. Then she will have some fruit: this morning it was half an apple.

Mid-morning: bottle of milk (4 oz?)

Lunch: (about 2 hours later) she has a rice cake with cashew butter or peanut butter, some vegetables and she ALWAYS asks for Cheerios after any meal, so I let her have about half a cup of them. Usually some more fruit, too.

Snack after nap: cup of cheerios and another 5 oz. of milk or so.

Dinner: Whatever we are having. Last night it was spaghetti and meatballs and she had a regular cereal bowl full, with 2 meatballs. She had cooked carrots for finger food afterwards because she will still ask for more no matter how much I give her in the bowl.

Bedtime bottle: 4 oz. milk.

I guess this doesn't seem like a lot of food, does it? But she is still hungry after over a cup of oatmeal/peanut butter, and half an apple? That's what I don't get.

After breakfast this morning I took a chance and went to my monthly book club (I have not been going due to her issues). I gave her extra oatmeal and fruit. But as soon as we were in the door, she started staring at the table (no food yet) and wouldn't play the whole time. This was literally 20 minutes out of the high chair.

So I gave her a mini-muffin. It is usually worse to give her a little because then she won't stop, but I tried it. 1 minute later she was asking for more. I gave her some pretzels and told her to go play. She would not leave the table, and cried until I gave her more. But more is never enough. There never reaches a point where she wants to stop and go do other things.

We left. I told them I won't be coming back.

Thanks for listening,

Anna

[texmati]

Originally Posted by ram3113

I guess this doesn't seem like a lot of food, does it? But she is still hungry after over a cup of oatmeal/peanut butter, and half an apple? That's what I don't get.

I guess, the part that gets me, is the only person who knows if she's hungry or not is her. I feel that you have this fear that if you just let her eat what she wants, she'll never stop. But you are so afraid of this, that you don't let her eat what she wants. Consider this-- If you knew, just knew, that at your next meal, you would not have enough food; that you would leave the table hungry; wouldnt it be difficult to pass up food when you saw it?

I see how hard this is on you, and I wish I could help. Is there anyone else that spend quite a bit of time with you and your DD? What does your husband or mom feel about this?

I can tell you that this doesn't sound too 'off' from what my 11 month old seems to eat, if you count in what he eats at night. And he's on the small side-- 20 pounds.

[karlin]

You could try giving her more protein/fat at each meal...and by that I mean meat. Oatmeal will make many people hungry a couple hours later. Try some sausage or at least adding some whey protein powder to her bottles or yogurt. I make my son pancakes (grainless, made with a banana and egg) with added protein powder, and that holds him over until lunch. Snacks should also be heavy on protein, like cheese sticks or nuts (if she can eat them). In our house, protein always comes first, then the fruits/veggies, then starches. Crackers and muffins are easy snacks, but they aren't filling and are higher in carbohydrates (stimulates the appetite). I would try offering protein in larger quantities until you feel she should be full, then the little extras.

Some ideas for snacks:

cheese sticks
cream cheese rolled up in sliced turkey
jerky
leftover chicken
nuts
homemade bars (butter, honey, nuts, almond flour, whey protein powder, dried fruit)
boiled eggs
smoothie with nut butter and/or protein powder added
full fat greek yogurt
hot dogs

Try not to worry about calories. Protein fills you up faster and usually has better nutrition than crackers or muffins, plus people eat less total when they feel satisfied with lots of protein.

I have lots of experience with this type of eating with my son. He was a bit chubby since he was a baby (chubby until age 6, which is not normal baby fat). Once I emphasized protein, he has thinned out and has more energy...not to mention he is more focused. Speaking of that, do you give fish oil supplements? That may help too.

[lach]

Honestly, at that age, both of my kids ate waaay more than that. That actually sounds like very little food. Lunch in particular sounds really meager.

My DS is 18mo now, and he today he ate:
Breakfast
- A bowl of instant oatmeal
- His sister's bowl of instant oatmeal
- A toaster waffle (we're in a rush in the morning, okay? We eat junk!)
- A glass of juice
- A glass of milk

Lunch
- A ham sandwich (2 slices of bread, mayo, 1 big slice of ham)
- A peach
- About 8 1/2" slices of cheese
- A handful of raisins
- 1/2 a granola bar
- A glass of milk

Post-nap snack
- A banana
- A thing of applesauce

Dinner was kind of hard to describe portion sizes, and I think he didn't like it as he didn't actually eat all that much. But I can tell you that when he has spagetti and meatballs, he has at least 6 meatballs (cut in 1/2) and a big bowl of spaghetti, plus 3-4 sides... a veggie of some sort, some dried fruit, some fresh fruit, a salad, some bread, etc. Plus a glass or two of milk.

(I just measured, and the cups we use hold about 6 oz)

And he's 75 %tile for height, and 50 %tile for weight. He looks chubby, but kids at this age do. And with his percentages, he's obviously not more chubby than his peers.

My 3yo has slowed down a lot, but when she was that age, she ate a lot too. One mini muffin NEVER would have sated her as a snack. Probably more like 3-4.

So I'm sorry, but I think that you're not giving her enough food. What you described really doesn't sound like all that much for a child that age. I think that you should see another pediatrician, and ask for a referral to a pediatric nutritionist too.