Raw dairy cleanliess? What to look for

[dandalion]

I was wondering what to look for. I have read on the Real Milk site the standards but thought they were kind of vague in the "clean" area. Everyone standards are different, ya know what I mean? For example the dairy that we just visited has A LOT of flies around the milking area and the room where the milk tank was. Aside from the flies it seemed pretty clean to me. What do you think?
TIA

[la mamita]

i would ask the farmers-- how do they keep the flies away from the milk?
flies = germs, and it's normal for flies to be around a farm but i would want to see their procedures for protecting the milk from the flies and protecting any equipment they use from milking from flies...

[Arduinna]

Is this a professional dairy or a local family farm? Are they hand milking or using a milking machine? We used to have our own dairy animals, a purebred jersey cow and a herd of dairy goats. We hand milked for our personal consumption only. We used all stainless steel milk containers from the milk pail to the storage containers. Although I did make yogurt in glass canning jars by the wood stove. We washed and dipped the teats before and after milking. We washed our hands before milking and kept the barn as clean as we could.

Since you mentioned a milk tank, I'm going to guess that they were using a milking machine. So the flies don't have access to the milk itself, the teats are covered during milking and the milk goes directly into closed tanks. I'd be more concerned with their cleaning the milk machine than the flies. Although flies are never good you can never seem to get rid of them all. Tons of them in the area though would make me question.

They should provide copies of their milk testing if they are selling raw milk.

[daisymommy]

Can I jump in and ask a question? What if you can't visit the dairy because it's too far away for you to drive? (but they will deliver to you). Would anyone here still buy from a farm unseen? Everything they advertise looks great on paper, and there are many mamas near me that are part of a co-op buying from this farm that are happy with the milk and dairy products--but no one has been there.

[goldenwillow]

Originally Posted by daisymommy

Can I jump in and ask a question? What if you can't visit the dairy because it's too far away for you to drive? (but they will deliver to you). Would anyone here still buy from a farm unseen? Everything they advertise looks great on paper, and there are many mamas near me that are part of a co-op buying from this farm that are happy with the milk and dairy products--but no one has been there.

Not me. I know where our milk comes from. Took a tour, petted the cows, rubbed the milkers belly . I think it is important to know (like most here) where our food comes from. However.... I was brand new pregnant when we did these investigations, might have been more weary about it.

When I eat/drink something I have the mantra "this is good for me and will nourish my body for myself and my Son. I can do this because I have seen where it comes from.

IMHO, the whole reason for eating a traditional diet is to know where your food is coming from (visually).

I am sure you are familiar, but maybe you could find safe practices in your area here.

http://www.realmilk.com/where.html

[crunchy_mama]

I think it is odd to have tons of flies, but tons is subjective I guess. I dont' recall noticing a great amount of flies at any of the farms I have visited.

I would go visit the farm- how far is too far away? Our chicken farm is 2 hrs away, I dont' buy milk there but there other ladies go up every couple of weeks to buy it.

[goldenwillow]

Got this in my email today! I am a member of WAPF but not a complete WAPF eater. I'd say we are 1/2! May be of some insight for ya!

BIODYNAMIC NATIONAL CONFERENCE
RAW MILK WORKSHOP

WHEN: Thursday, Sept. 30, 1:00 - 5:00 pm
WHERE: Threefold Educational Center, Chestnut Ridge, NY

The Biodynamic National Conference, "Biodynamics and the Future of Agriculture: Growing the Food Revolution," will feature a pre-conference workshop co-sponsored by the Weston A. Price Foundation on "The Benefits and Politics of Raw Milk."

Raw milk, one of the most primal and health-giving foods, is now at the center of the growing food rights movement and a storm of political controversy. How did this happen? Why is it so important? Where do we go from here? These questions and more will be addressed by an incredible panel of luminaries in the raw milk and food rights movement.

SALLY FALLON MORELL (Weston A. Price Foundation) will explain the health benefits of raw milk and describe the long history of nutritional research into raw milk.

DAVID GUMPERT (journalist and author of The Raw Milk Revolution) will illuminate the contentious political and legal landscapes surrounding raw milk and where things stand with the food rights battle in the present.

MICHAEL SCHMIDT (biodynamic farmer and raw milk advocate) will share lessons from his epic legal victory over the Canadian government, assuring his right to distribute raw milk to his farm members.

MARK OR PETRA ZINNIKER (biodynamic dairy farmers) will give an update on their struggles to keep America's oldest biodynamic farm viable through raw milk and a new kind of consumers' association.

Please consider joining us for the whole conference. We have an exciting array of workshops - from the introductory to the advanced, from the practical to the theoretical to the artistic, ranging from composting to fair trade to community supported agriculture to making raw sauerkraut - as well as special events like the Biodynamic Food and Wine Tasting and a special screening of Queen of the Sun, a new documentary on the bee crisis by the director of The Real Dirt on Farmer John.

Join as we gather at the Threefold Educational Center, the birthplace of biodynamics in the US, to honor our origins, strengthen our foundations, and work together to envision the future of the food revolution!

For more information, visit www.biodynamics.com/biodynamic-conference-2010.



TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MEMBER EMAIL LIST, email [e-mail]

[daisymommy]

Thanks for the input.

It is coming from the next state over, and my baby hates the car with a passion (screams his head off the whole time)--so there's just no way right now. Maybe next year we can travel that far.
There are some other raw milk sources near me, but this one also has everything else could possibly need including beef, pork, poultry, eggs, milk products, homemade sprouted flours, kefir & kombucha, and is a WAPF member and leads a group in their area. All the other raw milk co-ops closer to me (still 1.5-2 hours away) don't have all the other cool stuff going on with it

[crunchy_mama]

Oh, my baby is not a fan of the car either, understand thatk one. I have found a kids cd recently though that a lot of times will do the trick and if I time things just right it helps but the screaming bloody murder is killer regardless of how long it is.

[pixiepunk]

Originally Posted by daisymommy

Can I jump in and ask a question? What if you can't visit the dairy because it's too far away for you to drive? (but they will deliver to you). Would anyone here still buy from a farm unseen? Everything they advertise looks great on paper, and there are many mamas near me that are part of a co-op buying from this farm that are happy with the milk and dairy products--but no one has been there.

I would be willing to forego visiting it myself *if* someone I knew very well and trusted to have similar standards to mine had visited. and i did, in fact, do that for a couple of years. but 3 mamas i knew and trusted had visited and asked lots of questions, so i felt confident that it was OK. but if i knew absolutely no one in person who had ever been there, i wouldn't feel safe drinking the milk. well, at least i wouldn't feel safe consuming it raw. i might low-heat pasteurize it on my stove top first. or use it only for things like making cheese or yogurt, where i'd be heating it first. i knew it seems a shame to heat up raw milk, but that's probably what i would do. especially if my other option was buying ultra-pasteurized/homogenized from the grocery store.

[provocativa]

i am a milk runner- i run an underground milk delivery group, and we are having trouble with our supplier now. you really need someone to go there and look. formerly, my guy's milk didn't last as long as our original milk supplier. and then, he read about the fbi raiding a farm, and got afraid and put his fridge in his house- so the milk stays warm longer- he has to transport it from the barn to his house and pour it there before chilling. so the milk doesn't last near as long as the lady who milked and poured and chilled it right away. you really need to research udder procedures, and find out how the milk is handled. just because someone is a wapf member means nothing- i am not fond of the erroneous breastfeeding information they perpetuate, for one thing.

[daisymommy]

Thanks My gut feeling is it is not worth the health risk for our family right until we can go check it, maybe next year.

Thankfully, I have access to 3 different local brands of 100% grass-fed, organic milk, very-low temp pasteurized for a short time, and non-homogenized. It's sold in glass bottles too.

That's what we've been drinking so far, and I think we'll stick with it.

[goldenwillow]

Originally Posted by provocativa

i am a milk runner- i run an underground milk delivery group, and we are having trouble with our supplier now. you really need someone to go there and look. formerly, my guy's milk didn't last as long as our original milk supplier. and then, he read about the fbi raiding a farm, and got afraid and put his fridge in his house- so the milk stays warm longer- he has to transport it from the barn to his house and pour it there before chilling. so the milk doesn't last near as long as the lady who milked and poured and chilled it right away. you really need to research udder procedures, and find out how the milk is handled. just because someone is a wapf member means nothing- i am not fond of the erroneous breastfeeding information they perpetuate, for one thing.

Kickass! You go milk runner! I agree on the WAPF comment. I know others that are and wouldn't buy things from them. Just because someone is a member doesn't mean all is well.

[dandalion]

Sorry to post and not respond. I forgot
The farm did you a milking machine but it was not a closed system. They milked then poured the milk in the the holding talk that was in the next room. The flies were not in the milking room as much as the room with holding tank. They had a towel over the top of the tank ( I assume to keep the flies of the lid) She said they clean before and after milking and her cows looked wonderful. I wasnt that worried but my husband was. I am nursing my 18 month old so I guess I am a little more paranoid than if it was just me "alone" drinking it. I really liked the people so maybe I will go back for another visit and see if it is more of the same.