do you do multis for your LOs?

[bean-e]

I am wondering if I should be giving a multi to my 13 month dd since realizing that she is quite low on iron despite having chicken liver in her food on a regular basis. We didn't get tests for the iron, but it turns out that she cannot stop herself from biting me when she nurses when her iron levels is low. She is also more aggressive. That was a very interesting discovery. Anyway, since then, I have been wondering what else she might need because of her limited diet. Have you tried multis with your young ones?

thanks

[KimPM]

Yes, we do a multi with DS because he has never eaten normally, and now with all his food sensitivities I think it's good insurance for what he's not getting thru food. Early on I was using a powder in his pumped breastmilk/cereal (the one thing he would eat). Later he tried a number of chewables (amazingly he would actually eat them), but he was sensitive to the flavors in all those. So now we are doing Pure Encapsulations PediaNutrients - I open a few capsules and put it in his goat yogurt or goat kefir. I also add a probiotic supplement occasionally, and Carlson Ddrops, which helps temper his immune system.

[deditus]

Multis, no dd reacts to vit e derived from soy. She gets magnesium glycinate from Kirkman Labs, 1/4 of a crushed B complex from Megafoods, zinc from Kirkman Labs, Kirkman bifidus complex, & Carlson d drops.
For iron, I would try Floradix (you didn't mention what she can't have) and they have a gf version, or Megafoods Blood Builder (crush it).

[bean-e]

I personally like the Floradix products, but dd can't handle any of them. I am not sure what it is. She tried their iron and was very fussy afterwards.

Has anyone tried the Kirkman labs multi?

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by bean-e

I am wondering if I should be giving a multi to my 13 month dd since realizing that she is quite low on iron despite having chicken liver in her food on a regular basis. We didn't get tests for the iron, but it turns out that she cannot stop herself from biting me when she nurses when her iron levels is low. She is also more aggressive. That was a very interesting discovery. Anyway, since then, I have been wondering what else she might need because of her limited diet. Have you tried multis with your young ones?

thanks

I'm a bit confused - how do you know she is low in iron? Biting while nursing sounds like low mag and/or low zinc (low mag also fits with aggression). I'd start with a basic mineral supp (we use Thorne trace minerals, and in the past used brainchild liquid minerals), and extra mag.

If she's eating liver and still low in iron, then likely either she's not digesting well, or not transporting iron well. You could try some lactoferrin if she can handle trace dairy, it helps the body use iron efficiently, and has been really helpful for my son. Taking vitamin C along with the high iron foods can also improve absorption.

Our experience with multis have been that either they don't have enough of anything useful, or they have too much of something that is a problem (calcium in our case).

If she is still nursing, so long as your vitamin levels are good, she should be fine in most vitamins - so I'd work on the minerals (those are capped in breastmilk, so it's easier for our LOs not to get enough minerals via nursing).

ETA: My DS reacted to floradix when he was salicylates sensitive (caused by low mag). So perhaps yet another clue pointing to magnesium being worth a try?

[KimPM]

Originally Posted by bean-e

I personally like the Floradix products, but dd can't handle any of them. I am not sure what it is. She tried their iron and was very fussy afterwards.

Has anyone tried the Kirkman labs multi?

Floradix has some herbs in it, as well as juice extracts...there is a lot of stuff in there to be sensitive to.

We used the Kirkman labs multi for awhile, the chewable one with xylitol, though they have a powder form too. It was the most tolerable of the chewable multis, but for us the citric acid is also a mild offender, so I found something better.

Minerals sounds like a good idea, as the pp's have suggested.

[bean-e]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

I'm a bit confused - how do you know she is low in iron? Biting while nursing sounds like low mag and/or low zinc (low mag also fits with aggression).

I suspected iron instead of mag b/c I've had her on mag for quite a while now, so there is no reason for things to suddenly change like this. And there were other factors too. She has been looking quite pale lately; she went through a 6 weeks biting phase a few months ago (non-teething related as far as I could tell) and I think she started eating lamb towards the end of 6 weeks. And she stopped biting me as soon as I gave her some iron. So I think everything is pointing to that direction.

Maybe I will look into a multi mineral and see what I find.

[mamafish9]

Hmm. You might consider some methyl B12 as well (sublingual or drops) - some people have problems absorbing B12 from food, and B12 deficiency can cause issues with iron as well.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

I'm a bit confused - how do you know she is low in iron? Biting while nursing sounds like low mag and/or low zinc (low mag also fits with aggression). I'd start with a basic mineral supp (we use Thorne trace minerals, and in the past used brainchild liquid minerals), and extra mag.

OH holy geez.
*goes to get the mag*

[bean-e]

mamafish, what are the symptoms of low B12?

[bean-e]

now that I think about it, I think she has trouble sleeping when I take methyl B12.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by bean-e

now that I think about it, I think she has trouble sleeping when I take methyl B12.

That's not uncommon - in that case, try hydroxy B12 with her (methyl groups wire some people). Or try methyl B12 with her, but early in the day (the problem with you taking methyl B12 is she gets it over time in your breastmilk, and methyl supps in the afternoon & evening disturb most people's sleep.

The symptoms of low B12 in a child are often not at all obvious - anemia even with decent iron rich food intake would be one of them, however.

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

I'm a bit confused - how do you know she is low in iron? Biting while nursing sounds like low mag and/or low zinc (low mag also fits with aggression). I'd start with a basic mineral supp (we use Thorne trace minerals, and in the past used brainchild liquid minerals), and extra mag.

If she's eating liver and still low in iron, then likely either she's not digesting well, or not transporting iron well. You could try some lactoferrin if she can handle trace dairy, it helps the body use iron efficiently, and has been really helpful for my son. Taking vitamin C along with the high iron foods can also improve absorption.

Our experience with multis have been that either they don't have enough of anything useful, or they have too much of something that is a problem (calcium in our case).

If she is still nursing, so long as your vitamin levels are good, she should be fine in most vitamins - so I'd work on the minerals (those are capped in breastmilk, so it's easier for our LOs not to get enough minerals via nursing).

ETA: My DS reacted to floradix when he was salicylates sensitive (caused by low mag). So perhaps yet another clue pointing to magnesium being worth a try?

mamafish, I really need to figure this out for my ds, because I think he is deficient on some things too because of not absorbing things. But he had a stool test done (Genova) and it did not show any malabsorption. So what is up with that? And I think he eats a very varied diet, but the big thing is no grains. He is on SCD but eats most everything except for that we limit dairy. He eats some but not a ton. He is not a picky eater.

So, anyway, do you think it's worthwhile to have a test done that would show you what they might be deficient in, or to just go by symptom and trial things and see if it makes a difference. And for minerals, would that be the hair test or a blood draw?

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by momofmine

So, anyway, do you think it's worthwhile to have a test done that would show you what they might be deficient in, or to just go by symptom and trial things and see if it makes a difference. And for minerals, would that be the hair test or a blood draw?

I like the hair test best as a starting point for minerals. Simple, relatively cheap, non-invasive. You'll want some help interpreting it though (you can post it here) - some like zinc can show up either low or high in the hair if you are deficient.

What makes you think he's not absorbing?

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

What makes you think he's not absorbing?

Very emotionally intense, very difficult time winding down at night and falling asleep, takes forever to fall asleep yet still wakes up early. Also, he is just super skinny. Despite the fact that he eats tons and tons of food. Height is fine, just skinny. I think we are also still dealing with some parasite issues.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by momofmine

Very emotionally intense, very difficult time winding down at night and falling asleep, takes forever to fall asleep yet still wakes up early. Also, he is just super skinny. Despite the fact that he eats tons and tons of food. Height is fine, just skinny. I think we are also still dealing with some parasite issues.

The order of things I would try:

1) Magnesium. 3-4 doses a day, mag glycinate works best for us. 250-300mg (split into the 4 doses).

2) Sublingual methyl B12 (it takes a methyl group to convert serotonin to melatonin) - note - give this around noon, don't do it before bed!

3) Pancreatic enzymes and/or pine nut oil and/or bile salts (this last one helps with fat digestion). If you do the Yasko enzymes, which also have papain (papaya enzyme), that could help a lot with parasite issues as well.

4) Reduce protein. The SCD involves lots of protein, and for some genetics, that can cause ammonia levels to build up in the body. My son has recently tested high for ammonia, and addressing that (we weren't high protein, so I used some other things to help) improved his sleep again within a week.

If you have some money available and want to do a test, instead of the hair test, you might consider a urine amino acids test. It will tell you the different amino acid levels (in my son's case, even eating high protein, he had low amino acids, so we knew he had digestion issues). It will tell you if he has gaba-glutamate balance issues (which can cause all the issues you mentioned). It will measure ammonia levels, so you know if the amount of protein in the SCD is causing problems for him. It has some markers for mag & B vite levels (indirect, but can be useful). And it will give you tyrosine & tryptophan levels (precursors for serotonin & dopamine), which is one possible cause of neurotransmitter imbalances (can relate to the intensity & sleep issues).

[momofmine]

Thank you mamafish. I actually bought the hair test a year ago and haven't done it yet. I hope I can still submit it.

The protein issue, he does eat a lot. The thing is though that this diet has been

the biggest part of the answer. He was having loose stools, blood in stool, and not gaining weight at all.
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[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by momofmine

Thank you mamafish. I actually bought the hair test a year ago and haven't done it yet. I hope I can still submit it.

The protein issue, he does eat a lot. The thing is though that this diet has been

the biggest part of the answer. He was having loose stools, blood in stool, and not gaining weight at all.
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I get that - the SCD can be great for lots of issues - but it can also, over time, build up ammonia for some people. There are things you can do for that, including following the SCD but increasing veggies and beans and eating less meat. It's also possible you can start to add some starches or grains now, without going back to where you were (assuming his gut has now had some time to heal and populate with more healthy flora).