Vitamin B question

[ValH]

I'm sorry for posting so many questions!
I had recently posted about using Provera, and now I'm questioning using it based on some info I received from you lovely ladies and research online. So now I'm looking for alternative treatments for some late cycle spotting/possible luteal phase issues. I found a lot of info online about using Vitamin B-6, or B-50 Complex, or B-100 Complex. So, my questions...

What are your experiences with using any form of Vitamin B? Has it helped with your luteal phase/spotting? What form works best? Is it safe to take with a prenatal multivitamin? Any negative side effects??

I promise once I get this spotting thing figured out, I'll quit asking so many questions! Thanks in advance for any answers!

[karmab]

girl, do not apologize for asking questions! that's the best thing about this forum. ask anything you want!!

i already shared a little bit of my experience, but to get the ball rolling- i will add that it seems to be safe up to a point- b-6 is one of the very few vitamins, maybe the only water soluble one, that you can actually have toxicity from if you take too high a dose. the recommended dose for lpd seems to be 50-200 mg. at doses over 200 mg, you can see neurotoxicity- not only is this bad news for you, it can't be good for an embryo, i can only imagine. you can google neurotoxicity and b-6 for more info on that. they also recommend, whoever they are, to take b-6 with a b-complex. when i asked if the b-complex that is in the pnv was enough, the consensus was, yes, it probably is. re: the b-6 in pnv, mine has 2 mg. i took 50-100 mg supplemental to that. but i never really saw a difference.

dont give up on the progesterone though. you can try b6 or other ideas ladies may give you, but prometrium may be your best bet. that said, i had little luck with vaginal prometrium- i was having a lot of lp spotting, and i tried to get in a couple times for a mid luteal progesterone (p4) serum level, and i was always either traveling at that time or i would get af! generally speaking, although i have learned this is not a definite- we tend to spot when our p4 levels are below 10, and get af when it's under 5. you want it over 10 to be able to sustain an implanted blastocyst. last month i switched to oral prometrium, for the first time in 6 mths had no spotting and i did get a bfp, and at 9 dpo, my p4 was 32, on oral prometrium. my doc prefers suppositiories in pregnancy and switched me, and 5 days later, my p4 was down to 4. the prometrium half life is 55 hours, so if you do that math, it seems i absorbed absolutely 0 progesterone from the suppositories. i lost that pregnancy, although i am not blaming it on the progesterone, i think there was an issue before that. just sharing that, i know my experience is not typical, but in case you do try one or the other, if it doesnt seem to work well for you, try another route, because apparently, we may not all absorb it the same way! your doc should not have any problem prescribing you prometrium- just tell him/her you are more comfortable with that, if you are. if you aren't comfortable telling your doc how you feel, especially about something so important, and if you question the judgement, he/she may not be the best provider for you! just sayin. good luck, girl!!! this is a problem that can be worked out.

[Blanca78]

Hey Val--I second what Karma says. There's a lot out there about B-6 being safe because it's water-soluble, but if you dig deeper there's info on the neurotoxicity.

My LP started around 10 days. I started taking 100 mg b6 daily and while my LP fluctuated, it started to go up, until it averaged 11-12 days instead of 10. However, I should stress that this was only over a few months charting so I hesistate to ascribe too much to the patterns. BUT, I will say my EWCM seemed to get more abundant, too!

[Kinza]

Karma and Blanca are knowledgeable, so I won't do any more explaining, but I will give you my experience with B complex.

I started out taking a prenatal every other day and a B complex every day (this was within safety limits), but my luteal phase stretched to 18 or 19 days. Not good for my mental health to have that long of a luteal phase (since most literature says that 18 days of high temps/no AF probably means pregnancy). So, I take the B complex every other day (on the days I don't take the prenatal), and my luteal phase dropped back to 15-17 days. So, I definitely believe B complex can help support luteal phases. I can't speak to the help with spotting, since I don't spot. Good luck!

[ValH]

Thanks for all of the info ladies!!
I bought a B-50 complex today, which has 50 mg of B-6, along with B-12, folic acid, and a lot of other stuff. I took it with my prenatal today; since my prenatal has really low amount of B-6 (2.6 mg), I figured it would be safe and low enough to avoid any toxicity.

I am hopeful that this will help with the spotting. My doctor doesn't seem to be too eager to do any real testing, since we haven't been TTC for the magical 12 months yet. However, I've been thinking of switching doctors anyway, since I'm not always happy with the answers I get from her (i.e. not being clear about why she's giving me certain prescriptions). I'm due for an annual exam in November, so I'll probably just see a different doctor in the same practice. I plan to come armed with BBT charts and calendars - I figure it'll be close enough to the magical year by then that we can get the ball rolling... of course, that's assuming I don't get my BFP by then, and I'm really hoping I will.

Again, thank you all for your responses. I'm feeling a bit more sane now!

[Skyler]

Val,

You and I are in the exact same situation! I have been TTC since Feb and also have about a week of spotting before the real AF starts. I went to my gyno and she said that it didn't sound like I should have that much spotting and refered me to an OB, but the OB didn't really look at my charts and said that the spotting didn't necessarily mean anything and that you can't tell if you have LPD until you have a few misscarriages. So she just sent me away and said to keep trying for a few more months. But each unsuccessful month that passes I keep thinking that the spotting CAN'T be helping.

I have been taking 50 mg B6 (plus the 15 in my prenatal) and haven't seen a difference. I think I will try 100mg next cycle. I have also been taking 800 mg Vitex and didn't notice a difference.

So, please let me know when you get a BFP or if you find anything that helps and I will do the same. Thanks!!

[ValH]

Skylar -
Sorry to hear that we are in the same boat... hopefully one of us will figure out what to do to help it. My doctor was the same way about the "don't worry about it for a few more months" thing. Drives me crazy!

What is the Vitex? I've seen it mentioned in some posts, but am not quite sure what it is or what it's supposed to do.

I just started the B-50 complex on CD3 of this month, so I'm hoping to see some difference this month. I'll definitely let you know how it goes. I should also note that I might use the Provera this month despite the negative reviews of it just to see what happens. And please do keep me posted if you find anything that helps! Good luck!

[Baby_Cakes]

Taking a B-complex has seemed to help my LP as well, go from 10ish days to a full 14. The only thing was it made me nauseous, so I looked into it a bit more and decided to buy a coenzymated tablet, one that dissolves under the tongue. I haven't had nausea from it, at least no where near as severe.

[karmab]

skylar- i dont agree with the ob, in that, one of the things that might happen if you really have a lpd, say with 8 or 9 or maybe 10 day lps is that you never officially get pregnant. you may conceive every month, but before implantation is complete, you get af, so to say you cant know you have a lpd until you have several mc's, aside from very painful and perhaps being a needless loss of life, is just incorrect. plus, a few mc's does not prove a lpd anyway- it could be caused by many many things, from undiagnosed thyroid or lupus or a host of other health issues, to a balanced translocation, to bad luck and no cause at all, but you cant assume that's a lpd. it's common to treat an lpd based on history, exactly to avoid this, and also because the value of starting progesterone after a bfp is questionable- it doesnt seem to work in most cases by that point, and that will very likely become a loss. you can do the endometrial biopsies, you can do mid-luteal serum p4 levels, OR you can just empirically treat it, because it's a risk vs benefit no brainer for most, and with someone who is carefully monitoring their cycles, hasn't been able to get pg, and knows their lp is short, it's especially worthwhile to try progesterone.

and the ob didnt look at your charts likely because he/she doesnt know how to read them. most of them consider charting hudovoodoo. i was married to an ob/gyn for 13 years. he wouldnt know if a chart was upside down.

[Skyler]

Karmab - I know! That is exactly what I said to the OB - What if I am conceiving but the little zygote can't stick because my hormones shift too soon? She didn't really have an answer, just said not to worry yet and keep trying.

We are trying not to worry, because it is true that it can take healthy people a while to finally get preggo, but it will just feel like a waste of time if the whole time we have been trying it turns out there was a problem, ya know?

Val - Vitex is thought to balance out women's hormones. I did notice that some months that I have taken it my PMS seems a little better, but didn't notice any LP or spotting change. But some people say it has really helped them. I think I might give the natural progesterone cream a try this month, but I always worry a bit about how hormones would affect a developing fetus if we did get KU.

[karmab]

skyler- two words- second. opinion. that's what i would do at least. try to do some research on lpd yourself, and see what you think. you know, doctors are human, they don't know everything. you may have one that missed that class in residency. seriously. as a rule, ttc is probably the weakest area for a lot of ob's. they just dont spend much time on it. and if their pts dont end up pg, they just refer them to an re, so unless they have a personal interest, it's not always an area they are particularly knowledgable in.