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This would make me a horrible mother, correct? - Page 3

post #41 of 98
Originally Posted by lazzybee View Post
10 1/2? I think he'll be fine (unless you're parallel parking LOL).

I don't think I'd ever trade a Subaru for a minivan. Ever.

sorry you don't have another option. We too are having to make due in a less than desirable vehicle F-350. It's simply on the list of next important and it will have to come before this baby or we aren't going anywhere in a vehicle
post #42 of 98
OP, I know my posts before come off as judgemental to you, but I promise that's not my intention. I was just trying to explain for others. Sometimes we just have to do what our best option is, and I agree that your 10 year old in the front seat because there is no other option is not the end of the world. Not something I'm comfortable with though, and I would make every effort to see that it wasn't needed at all, but you are not a horrible mama.
post #43 of 98
If it's your only option, do it. I let my 9 year old (4'10" and 90 some odd pounds) ride in the front twice when we had no other option (special circumstances; long story).

And I think making a teenager wait till 15 to sit up front is absurd, but that's just me
post #44 of 98
I would never trade in a Subaru for an older, less-safe, unreliable mini van. Never. We traded in a 2001 Subaru Forester for a 2009 Toyota Sienna, and even that gave me heartache. Subarus are just fantastic cars, any year and any model. I think your son stands a better chance of being safer in the front seat of the Subaru than the back of an older van.

Have you found a carseat arrangement that will work three across? We tried in our Forester and it was extremely difficult. Really only the Radians would fit three across. I think that is your biggest worry, not where you're placing your oldest son.
post #45 of 98
Since I am LITERALLY in the exact same situation as you - ages, and genders, and pregnancy wise, I totally do not think that you would be a bad mother for this. And I have read every single post in this thread and thought....hmmmmm, that's a bit extreme, but in reality, it has to be something that you are okay with AND which you couldn't get a ticket, or arrested for in doing it. We can't get another car until the twins are probably about six months old (I'm due in January) and I know that some people would think - well why did you get pregnant then? I usually give a gas face and move on.

If you and the hubby are comfortable with it, AND it is legal in your city and state AND you are making sure that you take all measures of safety - then I say go for it. As adults we use seatbelts and make sure we don't talk on cell phones and stuff still happens - not all the time, but we're not ominiscient so don't be so tough on yourself.
post #46 of 98
I'm about 4'10" and 100 lbs and I drive.
post #47 of 98
You're also older than ten. Size matters, but age matters much more.
post #48 of 98
Why would age matter much more? I understand about the bone density, but I still think the direction and the angle of the airbag would matter more, and those depend on the person's size.

(Of course, what IS a good point is that I am an adult and am making the decision myself, whereas a 10-year-old cannot responsibly decide whether it is reasonably safe for him/her to ride in the front seat.)
post #49 of 98
Originally Posted by lazzybee View Post
I don't think I'd ever trade a Subaru for a minivan. Ever.
ITA. I would loooove a Subie! We have a Volvo wagon, just as excellent!

Originally Posted by Jessnet View Post
Okay, really? I mean really?

How, as parents, do we justify that one year they are not old enough to even sit in the front, but the next year they are old enough to do the driving - presumably from the front seat I might add.\

OP, I think you will be fine. Relax.
I also TA.

I found this on Healthychildren.org from the AAP site
All children younger than 13 years should ride in the back seat. If absolutely necessary, a child in a forward-facing car safety seat with a harness may be the best choice to ride in front. Just be sure the vehicle seat is moved as far back away from the dashboard (and the air bag) as possible.
post #50 of 98
For general reference, I found this site.


It says that bone ossification is not complete until age 25. I wonder how many of us shouldn't be driving? For me, and I suppose everyone else, it's all about weighing the risks and benefits. She said she CANNOT afford another vehicle..I don't see any other option.

Best of luck op.

Btw, I didn't read all the posts...
post #51 of 98
Bone density and muscle mass (not gym muscles, but just a basic change in body composition) matter quite a bit.

Post-pubertal hips (and I don't mean right after a girl gets her first period at age 10 or a boy has his first [you know], I mean after the body is finished developing internally as well as externally) hold a lap belt down to keep it from riding up on the belly -- this could be mitigated by a backless booster in the front seat, but it's just another way that a fully adult skeleton protects better.

I'm not slamming the OP. I think that sometimes life throws us curves and sometimes the "best" choice is just not an option. I own a 2001 Legacy wagon and if I had to transport the same kids I'd make the same choice. And honestly, I'd rather see the *whole family* in a safer vehicle than a mid-90s minivan -- child passenger safety considers the whole family. But it's simply not true that a 10yo is just as safe in the front as a 30yo, even if they are exactly the same size.
post #52 of 98
Originally Posted by blessedwithboys View Post

NO! no RF seat in front of an airbag. that's like newborn carseat rules 101.

Yeah, we're not speakng of a newborn in a carseat though which was why I said I was unsure and asked someone who did know to chime in . Thanks for the info
post #53 of 98
Children of any age cannor RF in front of an airbag. The airbag cannot be deactivated. I would prefer to see the 10yo in the front seat and the 2yo RFing in the back than the 2yo FFing in the front.
post #54 of 98
I would not be comfortable with that arrangement. We follow the current recommendations that children should not be in the front seat before age 15.
This statement is not supported by any research, data or real life experiences. It's totally incorrect. Front seat placement is a very misunderstood subject, especially in US. Fact is that front seat is an excellent place for a child, rear facing or forward facing, as long as airbag is deactivated.. You can read more facts about front seat here.

Most airbags in US can't be deactivated but this doesn't change the fact that it's extremely safe if airbag can be deactivated. Doesn't matter if it's for an infant, toddler, or older child. We know very well that front seat is a great place for a child thanks to research, data and real life experience.

- Research show front seat is just as safe as the rear. Rf in front seat is actually safer when looking at all factors. US data show rear seat is safer which is not surprising since airbags can't be deactivated so they should not be sitting there.

- A child shorter than 140 cm (55 inches) should not sit in front seat with an active airbag. It's not safe.

- Sweden, 30 years ahead of US in car seat safety, have been keeping kids rear facing since 1965 and use the front seat extensively for small to large kids. Both RF and FF. Car seat safety record is the envy of the world

- Car seat manufacturers such as Britax, BeSafe, Graco say publicly front seat is a great place as long as airbag is deactivated. It's on their websites in Europe.

- Car brands such as Volvo, Volkswagen, Audi, etc say publicly front seat is just as safe as the rear seat.

- Europe has Isofix instead of LATCH. Newer cars have Isofix in front passenger seat so kids can sit there from infant age throughout booster age.

- I have the privilege of working closely with the elite in the world in car seat safety. The safety of front seat placement with a deactivated airbags is never debated because everyone with in depth knowledge know it's extremely safe.
post #55 of 98
AdventureDad, no one is saying that the front seat is dangerous without an air bag, the whole point here was that she has an airbag in that seat just like the majority of cars in the North America today. Every new car has an airbag and you can't deactivate them. If she could deactivate it that would be different. What works in Sweden doesn't work here in this case, so your info is a bit misplaced.
post #56 of 98
Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
Finally, the reasoning that when we were children it was reasonable that a 15 yr old had their own car and was driving does not hold water. When I was child it was perfectly reasonable for my mother to let me ride in the front seat w/out a car seat when I was a toddler. That doesn't make it o.k. for me to do that now.
Where I live it's still legal (and recommended) for 14yos to get their learner's permits.
post #57 of 98
How old is your car? Many cars have a sensor for weight, because many adults do not meet weight standards. My car has a light that shows if the passenger air bag is on or not.

My 5'4" 12 year old nor my 5'3" 86 year old mother set it off. If we go some place with her, grandma now sits in the back because she has osteoporosis. We feel the healthier being would fair better in an accident.

Sometimes you have to do the best you can. Put the largest and/or healthiest up front, as far back as you can. Teach them appropriate seat belt usage.

I don't think you are a bad parent. These studies do not take into real life situations.

I laugh at the no riding up front until 15. These people have never try to put 6' - 14 year olds in a small car. Yes, we have put 6' child in front and a 5' adult in rear.
post #58 of 98
Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
Last I checked, in my state teens learn to drive in driver's ed classes and by many REQUIRED hours of driving with their parents and a driving school. They would NEVER be allowed to start driving simply because they had sat in the front seat of a vehicle for a period of time. Also, the next time you are in your vehicle, flip down your visor. I'm fairly certain it will tell you to keep children 12 and under in the back seat.

Links to current recs to reasoning for keeping 13 and 14 year olds in the back seat.


http://www.carseat.org/ Check out the 5-step test link and read the last sentence of the flyer.

Finally, the reasoning that when we were children it was reasonable that a 15 yr old had their own car and was driving does not hold water. When I was child it was perfectly reasonable for my mother to let me ride in the front seat w/out a car seat when I was a toddler. That doesn't make it o.k. for me to do that now.
you can still drive and get a license at 15
post #59 of 98
I agree, getting a waiver to disable the airbag would be difficult, and finding a shop even more difficult.

However, what YOU do to YOUR OWN car ......

It is so easy to kill that circuit. SOOOO easy and it takes no mechanical skill. It takes maybe 2 seconds to kill it, and maybe a second to reinstate it.

Not that I am encouraging it, I'm just putting it out there as an idea...
It's very easy to reseach how to preform such a simple, quick task.

I am certain that (since I am a member of the under 5 foot crowd) cutting off the airbag saved me and my unborn baby's life. Like other short moms I had to drive with my belly touching the wheel very early in my pregnacy. Then one night when I was about 5 months pregnant, I hit a deer that had jumped out from trees out of nowhere and crushed the front end of my truck.

Now, I pull that air bag circuit whenever I am driving in a car for more than a day.
post #60 of 98
I'm 5'6" and I still have to adjust my set almost as far forward as possible in order to reach the pedals. My belly touches the bottom of the steering wheel even with it tilted as up-and-down as it goes, and my chest and face aren't far away. I'm convinced that if that airbag ever goes off, it's going to break my neck. I hate those things so much.
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