ugggghhh!!! can i vent and say how much i hate the concept 'educational'?

[meemee]

why does everything have to be 'educational'?

why would you allow it only if it teaches educational?

by 'educational' most people usually mean the ABCs. or concepts like colours or others even for older kids.

i am just horrified by the toys i see for under one years old. i am horrified by the shower gifts i see for babies. leapfrog is making a huge killing. and all the other companies who have jumped on the educational bandwagon. i recall when my dd was a year old there werent that many insidious ways of presenting the ABCs to a child.

why oh WHY are we so focused on 'educational'? why does it always have to be a teachable moment? it doesnt mean the ABCs all the time. but teaching concepts. even for an 8 year old.

why cant play be just play? why does there have to be an adult defined purpose? isn't our children's purpose enough? can we not trust them that they do know better?

yeah DO they know more than us sometimes? i really trust they do - and our real job is to keep them safe. but sometimes they really do need to take the lead.

i really think we are changing the definition of play. we are truly cutting out the spontaneity of play.

[treeoflife3]

I totally understand what you mean. I know a lady here who has an almost 2 year old and an almost 4 year old and she is so proud that she keeps most of her kids toys 'educational.' Of course, what this means is electronic toys they don't really understand how to use. She herself says she tries to keep 'plain toys' to a minimum. Its so funny because I do the exact opposite. I'd love nothing more than just simple toys with multiple functions and I currently only have ONE electronic toy for my child to access... and of course she chooses blocks instead of that toy 9/10 which I love.

I love that kiddo's favorite games are reading random books and knocking down towers I build. She also likes to rock her dolls and steal my frying pans to make them beds. I'm more concerned with teaching her how to ask for things nicely and expressing her feelings appropriately than the abc's. What does a 17 month old need to know the abc's for? She can't even say her name yet!

I much prefer watching my kid running around pushing our tire swing than sitting poking buttons on a toy that talks to her.

[CherryBomb]

I agree! I don't have a problem with having a few "educational" toys, but generally I prefer regular old toys. The kids do, too. They love blocks, their wooden kitchen and fake food, baby dolls, etc.

[annettemarie]

It is sort of a war cry nowadays, isn't it?

The really silly thing is, EVERYTHING is educational. A baby trying to stick a rock in a cup is educational. They're learning small motor skills and spatial relations. A toddler building and knocking down block towers is educational. They're learning small motor skills and such high-tech scientific concepts as gravity and balance. A bunch of four-year-olds playing tea paryt are honing their social skills. It's all brain building and it's all important.

[noobmom]

I agree! Especially with TV shows trying to teach "moral" lessons. It's one of the reasons I like Backyardigans so much--the characters are just using their imaginations and having fun.

[annettemarie]

When Nick Jr was Noggin, it used to crack me up how they'd have the little "educational disclaimer" at the beginning of every episode.

[4evermom]

The stuff for older kids is awful, too. All the computer/video games where you have to complete levels in a specific way to continue, with the obnoxious "try again!" after every move that strays from the strict guidelines. I seriously avoid everything with the label "educational." They are boring and stifle creativity. I love watching my ds find alternate solutions to games and use things in novel ways.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by noobmom

I agree! Especially with TV shows trying to teach "moral" lessons. It's one of the reasons I like Backyardigans so much--the characters are just using their imaginations and having fun.

There used to be a law (hell, maybe there still is) about a certain percent of kids tv programing being educational so things like the old Transformer shows would suddenly have some moral/educational lesson thrown in.

[crowcaw]

Maybe "educational" will eventually go the way of Baby Einstein (it isn't still popular, is it?)

[jeanine123]

What about those kids who love "educational" toys, shows and videos to the point where that is almost all that they are ever interested in? While I agree that the overt push for everything to be a learning experience or educational is ridiculous there are some kids like my oldest son who loves all of that stuff. He would be utterly miserable if he were just given a set of plain blocks of play silks and told to play with them. That's just not how he's wired, never had been. While at the age of 7 he is slightly more interested in more imaginative play it's still not his favorite thing to do and it likely never will be. He's wired to be a very literal, concrete concept person. Being handed a bunch of crayons and a piece of paper and told to draw something drives him absolutely bonkers, and more often than not leads him to simply write down the latest recipe he has memorized instead. So while I agree that you shouldn't force a child to do something simply because it's educational it's always a good idea to keep in mind that there are some kids out there who would be absolutely miserable without the educational stuff. And no, I didn't make him that way by only allowing him to play with those types of toys, as I said, it's how he is and I have no interest in changing it.

[nwatt]

I both agree and disagree. I think that toys should be toys. All of my daughter's toys are open-ended toys that she can just play with. No batteries, no talking voices, no instructions. However, I do think that TV for little kids should be educational. Nature shows, alphabet, books brought to life, something redeeming if a kid is going to sit there and passively watch it. Even shows that have no lesson or morals are not really opening kids' imaginations.

[treeoflife3]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

What about those kids who love "educational" toys, shows and videos to the point where that is almost all that they are ever interested in? While I agree that the overt push for everything to be a learning experience or educational is ridiculous there are some kids like my oldest son who loves all of that stuff. He would be utterly miserable if he were just given a set of plain blocks of play silks and told to play with them. That's just not how he's wired, never had been. While at the age of 7 he is slightly more interested in more imaginative play it's still not his favorite thing to do and it likely never will be. He's wired to be a very literal, concrete concept person. Being handed a bunch of crayons and a piece of paper and told to draw something drives him absolutely bonkers, and more often than not leads him to simply write down the latest recipe he has memorized instead. So while I agree that you shouldn't force a child to do something simply because it's educational it's always a good idea to keep in mind that there are some kids out there who would be absolutely miserable without the educational stuff. And no, I didn't make him that way by only allowing him to play with those types of toys, as I said, it's how he is and I have no interest in changing it.

haha well I think there is a big difference between a parent following their child's cue's on what is best for them and their development and a parent who is proud to mostly just have little electronic toys instead of 'plain' toys simply because the box says 'educational' and the colored blocks for building towers doesn't :P

[Lisa1970]

It is also unnatural. Children lose out on so much when exploration and toys just for enjoyment went away.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

it's always a good idea to keep in mind that there are some kids out there who would be absolutely miserable without the educational stuff.

i am not talking about children choosing what they play with. i am talking about parents looking only at the 'educational' aspect of anything rather than their child's interest.

Originally Posted by nwatt

However, I do think that TV for little kids should be educational. Nature shows, alphabet, books brought to life, something redeeming if a kid is going to sit there and passively watch it. Even shows that have no lesson or morals are not really opening kids' imaginations.

why?

do you really believe a child passively watches tv? just sit there and watch. i cant imagine any human doing this. there is more going on than watching.

why cant they watch a story? why science? why abcs? yes absolutely some 'content' must be present.

in a sense i find 'educational' shows for kids absolutely boring. have you noticed how they just present facts? we in society as a general is very fact oriented. why is educational only about facts. wouldnt it be great esp. for the younger kids to be about cultures? why not some critical thinking? why not think of choices? of course i feel the 'facts' are all about early training of a great work force. just swallow what i say and do as i say. of course this is a whole nother pet peeve of mine.

one of the things i mourn is the slow dying of story telling. people are turning to books and tv and not telling stories ourselves. how many of you tell a bedtime story than read from a book. too much emphasis on reading. not enough on conversation.

ok i am going OT now - taking off on another tangent.

[mamadelbosque]

While I definetly see your point, I think many of the 'educational' tv shows are *VERY* well done - Super Why and Dora the Explorere/Go Diego, Go! all spring to mind. My Ds1 *loves* all three shows, and they all teach something super important - abc's/reading in super why and basic problem solving in dora/diego. And they are fun shows, with decent-great storylines.

But all the 'abc/123' toys from leapfrog/baby einstein/etc for 0-2 yr olds are definetly ridiculous... Personally, I hate noisy obnoxoius toys and we basicly don't have any... the only one I can really think of that we do have is a ball with a monkey that stays ontop and sings a horribly obnoxious song whenever it gets thrown... but that hardly teaches anything

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by meemee

one of the things i mourn is the slow dying of story telling. people are turning to books and tv and not telling stories ourselves. how many of you tell a bedtime story than read from a book. too much emphasis on reading. not enough on conversation.

This is so true. I used to make up little stories for ds1 sometimes, and I never do it for my other kids. The weird thing is that my nephew thought it was just freaky that I "could" tell stories without reading them. I need to work on my storytelling skills. Storytelling is becoming a lost art, and I'd like to see it make a comeback.

At a Canada Day festival we went to, there was a tent shaped like a giant fish. Outside, there were a bunch of childen's costumes on stakes. Every hour, the woman running the attraction would encourage the kids to each put on a costume, then they went for a 10-15 minute walk through the festival in costume. When they got back to the giant fish tent, they took off the costumes, went inside and she told them a story (unsurprisingly, the story featured salmon). My kids liked it the best of everything else that was going on at the festival. It was really, really cool.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

The really silly thing is, EVERYTHING is educational. A baby trying to stick a rock in a cup is educational. They're learning small motor skills and spatial relations. A toddler building and knocking down block towers is educational. They're learning small motor skills and such high-tech scientific concepts as gravity and balance. A bunch of four-year-olds playing tea paryt are honing their social skills. It's all brain building and it's all important.

This. This. This. My 14 month old (and how on earth can she be this big already????) puts shoes on her hands every day, and she dumps everything she can, and shoves her fingers in the dirt in the garden and all that kind of thing. She's learning something by all of it. I love to watch it, and have no interest in buying a beeping ABC toy. My MIL has picked up a couple over the years, and the kids can have them if they enjoy them (they have liked a couple), but I don't think there's any real value in them, in and of themselves.

[MusicianDad]

It all has to be "educational" because we all know that if it's not educational it's worthless junk right? (yeah, sarcasm, I'm not ashamed of it).

Society is so obsessed with kids learning we forget they have a natural affinity for doing just that no matter what they are playing with or how. A PP mention putting a rock in a cup as "teaching" (more like practicing) fine motor control, that is exactly what it does. Your kid opens a book? They are practicing the same thing, and they are being exposed to letters and words, reading the book to them creates a link between the words on the page and the words being spoken. Taking care of a doll? They learn how to parent. Throwing the doll? They learn physics, geometry and hand/eye co-ordination.

"Educational" is a word used to sell, mostly to sell crap the kids don't need. When you get right down to it, every toy is educational, even if it's just a piece of play silk or a wooden building block.

Last week DS was thoroughly immersed in learning colour theory, fine and gross motor control, chemistry and physics. DH stripped him down to his diaper and let him loose with a couple of small bottles of finger paints. (By immersed, I mean that when DS was brought back in from the garage to get cleaned up he was rainbow coloured. His hair is still a little multicoloured...)

[LynnS6]

Give "Einstein Never Used Flashcards" to everyone you know.

One of the many eloquent points that the authors make is that the drive for 'enrichment' or 'educational' things for children is based on a false analogy with laboratory rats.

Lab rats raised in cages with interesting things to do turned out to be smarter than lab rats raised in sterile cages. Wow, really?!!

Add to that the consistent findings over the years that people with college educations out earn those without, and you have parents who feel that their child must have every educational 'advantage'.

Then add to that the fact that most parents don't have a clue as to how learning actually takes place. (Einstein Never Used Flashcards also does a great job of explaining how interaction with the real world, like filling up shoes and dumping them out, is much much better for learning.)

But the marketers have taken these facts and put a huge spin on them: You need to enrich your child's environment to make them smarter so that they will succeed in life. You need to buy products that will ensure your children's success. True, but only if you're raising your children in a sterile cage!

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

What about those kids who love "educational" toys, shows and videos to the point where that is almost all that they are ever interested in? While I agree that the overt push for everything to be a learning experience or educational is ridiculous there are some kids like my oldest son who loves all of that stuff. He would be utterly miserable if he were just given a set of plain blocks of play silks and told to play with them. That's just not how he's wired, never had been. While at the age of 7 he is slightly more interested in more imaginative play it's still not his favorite thing to do and it likely never will be. He's wired to be a very literal, concrete concept person. Being handed a bunch of crayons and a piece of paper and told to draw something drives him absolutely bonkers, and more often than not leads him to simply write down the latest recipe he has memorized instead. So while I agree that you shouldn't force a child to do something simply because it's educational it's always a good idea to keep in mind that there are some kids out there who would be absolutely miserable without the educational stuff. And no, I didn't make him that way by only allowing him to play with those types of toys, as I said, it's how he is and I have no interest in changing it.

I think that's great. It's the marketing that bugs me, like the whole Baby Einstein fiasco when it turned out they were actually the opposite of educational.

BTW, I thought of your little "Top Chef" when I was out at the mall this afternoon. In Gymboree they were starting to put out the Halloween costumes, and they have a little "junior chef" ensemble. Very cute!