Breast Feeding and Dental problems- survey (sort of)

[SaoirseC]

Both my DS and my DD had awful dental problems when they were young- teeth chipping away, etc. that resulted in the NEED for extensive dental work around 2 years. Now I have DS2, and I'm trying to prevent this from happening again. I'm looking for some sort of common denominator. Please comment if your DC had extensive dental problems and any of these issues. THX!

--thrush
--treatment of thrush with diflucan or nystatin
--antibiotic use (mom or baby)
--possible vitamin d deficiency
--frequent night nursing
--dairy allergy
--mom's lactose intolerance (or gassiness with milk)
--mom's sensitivity to sugar intake (or a family history of blood sugar issues/diabetes)
--mom's iron levels during pregnancy (anemic, slightly anemic, normal, above normal)- iron plays a role in the production of saliva
--fluoridation of mom or babe- topical? in water? tea consumption? bottled liquid consumption (any bottled drink that contains water- soda, gatorade, other bottled drinks-make contain fluoridated water)?
--lead testing/results for mom or baby?

Just trying to put together the pieces. Thanks!

[SuburbanHippie]

thrush...Nope
treatment of thrush with diflucan or nystatin...Nope
antibiotic use (mom or baby)...Not until well after the dental problem was noticed
possible vitamin d deficiency...Nope, I'm at 65 ng/ml.
frequent night nursing... YES!
dairy allergy...Nope.
mom's lactose intolerance (or gassiness with milk)...Nope.
mom's sensitivity to sugar intake (or a family history of blood sugar issues/diabetes)... Not a family history, but my sugars were high (103 fasting).

DS's teeth issue is bad enamel. 2 molars are almost to the gums. He's scheduled for stainless steel crowns in April. Another tooth is chipping away before my very eyes. This started happening around 12 months. He was a frequent night nurser for 18 months. The dentist said that this has nothing to do with night nursing because it's not happening on every tooth. I don't know though.

[rachelsmama]

I'm not completely sure why my kids have bad teeth, but whatever it is seems to have happened during tooth formation, so if I ever get pregnant again I'll be drinking non-fluoridated water throughout the pregnancy to see if that helps. After all, me and DH and all our relatives had fewer childhood dental issues (although nobody had perfect teeth) and our mothers were all drinking water that had not been fluoridated.

[SaoirseC]

thanks for your responses!
I just wanted to add that I had all of these factors with both of my older children. My son (DC1) had elevated blood levels of lead at 18 months, but we never tested DD (who is DC2). We avoided fluoride in all possible forms during pregnancy and baby/toddler stages (still do). It was blamed on night nursing for both kids, even though the damage wasn't on all teeth. Some teeth were totally normal/beautiful, while others (right next to the healthy teeth) were almost totally decayed.

Rachelsmama- that's interesting! So you fluoridated and still had these problems! Our lack of fluoride use was also partly blamed.

Both of my older kids had extensive dental work around 2 years, then never needed to see the dentist after that. Both also night-weaned around 2 yo. DS has a few adult teeth, and they came in totally normal.
As for DC3 (DS2):
I've had thrush, which I treated with a nipple-vinegar soak.
I was slightly anemic through both prior pregnancies, but had "very good" iron levels during DC3's pregnancy. I have always had normal blood sugar numbers, but I *feel* very sensitive to my sugar intake.

[SaoirseC]

rachel'smama and suburbanhippie:
I've added a few more factors:
--mom's iron levels during pregnancy (anemic, slightly anemic, normal, above normal)- iron plays a role in the production of saliva
--fluoridation of mom or babe- topical? in water? tea consumption? bottled liquid consumption (any bottled drink that contains water- soda, gatorade, other bottled drinks-make contain fluoridated water)?
--lead testing/results for mom or baby?

[springbabes]

I just took my kids to the dentist so I'll try to answer. All were night-nursed and none had tooth decay as toddlers. My 7 yo DS has 6 cavities in molars which the dentist blamed on how crowded his teeth are and lack of flossing (and I would add, eating candy and improper brushing--my DS constantly resists brushing his teeth). My 13 yo DD didn't have any cavities this time but had 3 or 4 in non-permanent molars at about age 7, also attributed to crowding. My 11 yo DD and my still-breastfeeding 3 yo DD have never had cavities.

Specifics you asked for:
--Never had thrush
--None had antibiotics as babies (though DS had them at 13 months and all except youngest have had them 3-4 times as young children; 3 yo has never had antibiotics)
--Don't know about vit. D deficiency
--All night-nursed
--No problems with dairy or lactose
--My grandmother had type 2 diabetes but no family history of type 1 (though other autoimmune diseases are plentiful).
--I've never been anemic. Youngest DD was tested at 16 months and her levels were 13.6.
--Until 3 months ago our water was non-fluoridated (we just moved). We use fluoride-free toothpaste and almost never have bottled drinks. In fact, I'm pretty anti-juice and very anti-soda. My kids get water and raw milk, and occasionally, herbal teas. I drink a lot of coffee. In my opinion, they all eat way too much sugar. It seems like we can't leave the house without someone handing them a lollipop. I wish I could be stricter about it.
--Never had lead tests done

[tnmom66]

Originally Posted by SaoirseC

Both my DS and my DD had awful dental problems when they were young- teeth chipping away, etc. that resulted in the NEED for extensive dental work around 2 years. Now I have DS2, and I'm trying to prevent this from happening again. I'm looking for some sort of common denominator. Please comment if your DC had extensive dental problems and any of these issues. THX!

--thrush NO
--treatment of thrush with diflucan or nystatinNO
--antibiotic use (mom or baby) Baby at 3 months, ear infection
--possible vitamin d deficiency -Maybe, as we didn't supplement as recommended
--frequent night nursing YES
--dairy allergy NO
--mom's lactose intolerance (or gassiness with milk) NO
--mom's sensitivity to sugar intake (or a family history of blood sugar issues/diabetes)NO
--mom's iron levels during pregnancy (anemic, slightly anemic, normal, above normal)- iron plays a role in the production of saliva OK AS FAR AS KNOW
--fluoridation of mom or babe- topical? in water? tea consumption? bottled liquid consumption (any bottled drink that contains water- soda, gatorade, other bottled drinks-make contain fluoridated water)? MOSTLY NO FLUORIDE OTHER THAN MOM'S TOOTHPASTE. FLUORIDE APPLIED TOPICALLY TO BABY'S TEETH AFTER DECAY DISCOVERED
--lead testing/results for mom or baby? BABY TESTED OK

Just trying to put together the pieces. Thanks!

I put my answers in the above

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

DD has no dental issues at all but ds has had them since his teeth started coming in.

--thrush no
--treatment of thrush with diflucan or nystatin diaper rash cream nystatin
--antibiotic use (mom or baby) with my dd no with ds while pg
--possible vitamin d deficiency unknown
--frequent night nursing yes with both kids
--dairy allergy no
--mom's lactose intolerance (or gassiness with milk) no
--mom's sensitivity to sugar intake (or a family history of blood sugar issues/diabetes) no
--mom's iron levels during pregnancy (anemic, slightly anemic, normal, above normal)- iron plays a role in the production of saliva no
--fluoridation of mom or babe- topical? in water? tea consumption? bottled liquid consumption (any bottled drink that contains water- soda, gatorade, other bottled drinks-make contain fluoridated water)? possible
--lead testing/results for mom or baby? negative

[EdnaMarie]

I think that nobody's perfect physically and some people just have more vulnerable teeth. Crooked teeth are always more vulnerable.

Seeing my relatives and other friends encounter dental problems has convinced me of this further. It is SO UNJUST who gets cavities and who doesn't. The mom who let baby sleep with a bottle of apple juice and who drinks Diet Coke all day? One cavity. The TF family with children who didn't night nurse after six months? Dental work every year.

Whatever you decide, don't beat yourself up over cavities. If they run in the family, they'll be hard to avoid.

[kittywitty]

My two kids who nursed all night through age 2 have 0 cavities, perfect teeth.

--thrush no
--treatment of thrush n/a but one candida episode in kid #3 (perfect teeth) who was on a special benadryl for severe allergic reaction to dairy and yeast issues for a couple months
--antibiotic use (mom or baby) #3 had abx a couple of times and I did...once or twice?
--possible vitamin d deficiency unknown
--frequent night nursing yes with both kids-all night every night past age 2
--dairy allergy Yes
--mom's lactose intolerance (or gassiness with milk) no
--mom's sensitivity to sugar intake (or a family history of blood sugar issues/diabetes) no but dh is diabetic if that matters
--mom's iron levels during pregnancy (anemic, slightly anemic, normal, above normal)- iron plays a role in the production of saliva no
--fluoridation of mom or babe- topical? in water? tea consumption? bottled liquid consumption (any bottled drink that contains water- soda, gatorade, other bottled drinks-make contain fluoridated water)? Fluoride in water, but we filter our water usually. Herbal but not caffeinated tea drinker. Almost never have soda or other drinks besides water.
--lead testing/results for mom or baby? negative in both

[Koalamom]

DD has spots of decay, we have stopped, and lightly sealed over. DS, has thin looking enamel, but no cavities. I have cavities I am working on healing. Cutting out dairy and wheat has been the best thing we could do for out teeth. They were causing gut issues and poor absorption.

Originally Posted by SaoirseC

--thrush Yes, but completely gone after eliminating dairy
--treatment of thrush with diflucan or nystatin NO
--antibiotic use (mom or baby) Never
--possible vitamin d deficiency Not sure, but we do supplement with Vit D evreyday now
--frequent night nursing Yeah baby! For dd till age 2, and ds, 1yr is still nursing several times a night
--dairy allergy extreme YES
--mom's lactose intolerance (or gassiness with milk) YES
--mom's sensitivity to sugar intake (or a family history of blood sugar issues/diabetes) no, but I do have to watch my carbs or my bloood sugar gets messed up
--mom's iron levels during pregnancy (anemic, slightly anemic, normal, above normal)- iron plays a role in the production of saliva YES, very interesting as when I got my iron up, my dry mouth went away
--fluoridation of mom or babe- topical? in water? tea consumption? bottled liquid consumption (any bottled drink that contains water- soda, gatorade, other bottled drinks-make contain fluoridated water)? NO, but we did have an apartment where we bathed in the water, and brushed with it. So witth bathing, we ingested it alot sadly. Now we have a welll at our new house!
--lead testing/results for mom or baby? Only dd has ever been tested, and she was fine. Just connecting this to the lead question. If you are lead high, increasing iron should help push it out.

Just trying to put together the pieces. Thanks!

[SaoirseC]

tnmom66- When did your DC start having decay? How severe was it?

MCatLvrMom2A&X- On the part about iron levels, does "no" mean you didn't test, or does it mean that there was no anemia?

EdnaMarie- Thanks for the support! It does seem so unfair. It would have made sense that my DS1 had tooth decay, as I let him eat a lot of dehydrated fruit when he was little (and my DH started the awful habit of putting honey in milk for him to drink through a sippy cup- we were breastfeeding, and he also liked milk just plain without sugar!) But when DD came along, I cut out the dehydrated fruit and milk in a sippy cup, but her decay was even worse! The first pediatric dentist we saw had intended to pull 5 of her teeth, and fill several others. The look he gave me after he examined her made me feel like crawling into a hole. I brought her to a different pediatric dentist across the state (the one who had worked with my DS1) and he managed to save all of her teeth. I think I'm going to make an appt. for DS2 with this dentist for next summer (because I will have to drive across the state I want to ensure safe driving weather), but I still dread the thought of having to put another child under general anesthesia for dental work!

Kittywitty- I'm primarily concerned about children who had lots of decay to find a common denominator, although it is nice to hear about kids who were night-nursed frequently and have no issues. The vast majority of our friends' kids were nursed on-demand night and day, had little exposure to fluoride (except maybe in bottled juice and herbal tea), no dental 'care', and little attention to dental 'hygiene', and yet have few or no cavities. We're talking about 20-30 kids (I haven't stopped to count, but I only know of a few kids who are raised in a similar way to our children who had such decay issues), so I'm not really convinced that fluoride, frequent brushing, or night nursing are big factors in dental health most of the time.

bluebirdmama1- What age did your DD's decay start, and when did you start sealing them? I'm considering sealant early on, but I don't want to have a kid under GA before 2 years. I'm thinking of cutting out dairy entirely for the same reasons. I eat hardly any grains at all (probably 3 or 4 USDA-sized servings per week), but I might cut wheat out as well. My lead levels were great throughout my third pregnancy. I also have blood sugar issues (I need to be careful about when/how much sweet stuff I eat) and have Type II diabetes in both sides of my family. My dad has always been physically active and a healthy weight, and yet he was diagnosed with type II around 40 yo.

Thanks for all your replies!!

[mumkimum]

DD1 here has 2 crowns now (got them at 3.5 y/o), has weak enamel on some of her front teeth and discoloration (that was there when her teeth came in at 5 mo). Some of her other teeth have some discoloration/unevenness but haven't had other issues (crowns are on her 2 front teeth).

--thrush -- no
--treatment of thrush with diflucan or nystatin -- no, but mom was treated for yeast infection during first month while nursing (and did use nystatin on nipples to prevent spreading to babe)
--antibiotic use (mom or baby) -- mom had 1 course during pregnancy, and in more given during labor
--possible vitamin d deficiency -- no
--frequent night nursing -- yes
--dairy allergy -- no
--mom's lactose intolerance (or gassiness with milk) -- not sure, we drink almost no milk due to preference (do eat other dairy w/o issues semi-reguarly)
--mom's sensitivity to sugar intake (or a family history of blood sugar issues/diabetes) -- no issues
--mom's iron levels during pregnancy (anemic, slightly anemic, normal, above normal)- iron plays a role in the production of saliva -- no issues
--fluoridation of mom or babe- topical? in water? tea consumption? bottled liquid consumption (any bottled drink that contains water- soda, gatorade, other bottled drinks-make contain fluoridated water)? -- wasn't really avoided or sought out (no use of topical treatments, sometimes fluoridated toothpaste sometimes not, no avoidance of stuff that might be fluoridated). DD did have some topical fluoride applied sometime just over 1 y/o when we wanted her teeth looked at by a ped dentist (because of the pitted/discolored spots), she didn't use a fluoridated toothpaste until later though.
--lead testing/results for mom or baby? -- no high results

[Wilbur]

DS is 2, has had decay issues since about age 1, just in the top front four teeth, now to the point that we've scheduled surgery (He'll be about 27 months by that point). Of the factors you listed:
We breastfeed often at night. I do fine with cultured dairy and raw milk, and dairy-wise, that's all he's ever had (although you may not want to trust my judgement on that one- I LOVE them, and the thought of giving them up MAY make me ignore mild issues with digestion. Maybe).
My iron levels were borderline low during pregnancy but supplemented with floradix and recently were tested and are fairly high. No antibiotics for either of us for the duration of pregnancy/since he was born, no thrush, I had extremely low blood sugar during pregnancy, no flouride (I probably did use flouridated toothpaste a few times at the very beginning of pregnancy, before we knew I was pregnant). No family history of blod-sugar issues, BIG family history of autoimmune stuff though.
We did learn at 38 wks that he had Intrauterine Growth Restriction and ended up being induced, it turned out that there was something wrong with the umbilical cord. I've sort of suspected that his decay is due to weak enamel resulting from his not having been able to get what he needed, mineral-wise, through the umbilical cord and so his body reabsorbed some of the minerals forming the enamel... but who knows.
We're also trying to piece together the causes of this, so I appreciate this thread!

[SaoirseC]

Interesting that auto-immune factors are mentioned often. We have also had auto-immune problems (DS has very very mild asthma, and had awful eczema before we discovered his dietary allergies, and environmental allergies; I had eczema as a kid; DH has allergies; both DH and I have siblings with asthma; my mom has MS).

I wonder if anti-thrush meds (used orally or on the nipple, not topically to treat athlete's foot or diaper rash) have been studied as it relates to enamel formation.

Wilbur- I know what you mean, because I'm somewhat lactose intolerant (it used to be awful, now it's pretty mild) but I tend to ignore it in favor of a bowl of ice cream!

[Koalamom]

When I said sealed over, that wasn't through the dentist, it was from adding in cell salts, K2, and brushing with pascalite clay. Afterwards the dentist siad the cavities were sealed over, and the decay stopped getting any worse. She is still alright!

Her decay started when she was around 2.

[SuburbanHippie]

--mom's iron levels during pregnancy- Mine were normal
--fluoridation of mom or babe- We have fluoride in our water and I was drinking it during the pregnancy.
--lead testing/results for mom or baby? I don't think we did either. If we did, it was fine.

[SaoirseC]

thanks suburbanmom.

bluebirdmama-
So her decay started at 2. How old was she when you started your regimen, and when did it seal over? Where did you get your supplies (which companies)? I'd prefer to buy the products that you used rather than take my chances with a diff company.

[Nan'sMom]

Dd1 has cavities that we are treating with MI Paste Plus at night, twice daily brushing, xylitol, CLO and HVBO as well as as much of a TF diet as we can (she tends towards vegetarian preferences). I was mostly vegan with some dairy while pregnant with her. No thrush, etc.

Dd2 had demineralization on front teeth that we reversed by diligent brushing. I was vegetarian during pregnancy with her and switched to a TF diet when she was about a year old.

Dd3 had funky teeth stuff, as in yellow front teeth, some clearness and start of a cavity (tiny brown spot seems to have arrested?). She seems to do better with no dairy (teeth not so clear/mottled looking although still pretty yellow--she is not always big on having teeth brushed) and loves a TF diet although with lots of other experimental foods thrown in. I ate TF during pregnancy with her.

So for us xylitol plus TF seems to be helpful, especially HVBO and CLO.

Think about ozone for the cavities--may be better than conventional dentistry. We did it with Dd1 once but she does not want to do it again because it was hard to breathe and she didn't like it (the guy we used free-sprays the teeth rather than capping them) and dd didn't like the taste so yelled...not a good experience although if we were going to do forced dental care it seemed way better than needles + fillings.

[Panserbjorne]

we reversed decay and improved enamel formation. We used homeopathy, cell salts, nutrition, pascalite clay and colloidal silver (just sprayed on the toothbrush. Dd had no enamel on her teeth when they first came in. I hit it hard with cell salts. The change was amazing. She also had a cavity along a crack in a tooth (where there was no enamel) that stopped decaying and sealed over.

I had the same experience with my own teeth as well. Cell salts/pascalite are the two biggies, but diet does matter. I also used the colloidal silver to manage any strep mutans and keep the toothbrush clean.