Clarifying and firming up your GD foundation...

[chicaalegre]

I'm interested in some short and concise "Why's" behind Gentle Discipline. Things I can hop back to and remember quickly when a) I'm doubting myself, this method, thinking that really I'm raising a tyrant, etc. and b) when others question or criticize, also usually leading to doubt.

Occasionally, but regularly, I have disagreements with my dad about my parenting of my 3.5 yr old dd. For example, the other day my dad was making some macaroni & cheese for dd. She wanted to stir using a specific spoon. He wanted her to use a different spoon. She cried and protested, refused to give back the spoon she wanted to use, he took the spoon away and told her that now she couldn't stir bc she wasn't Obeying Grandpa. She cried and screamed some more.

I stayed out of it bc I thought better of criticizing my dad's approach in front of dd, since it would have just caused an argument. He was upset that I didn't "step in and tell dd to obey her grandpa." I genuinely thought I was being respectful by staying out of it. If I were in the situation, I would have avoided the power struggle altogether, because really, it doesn't matter which spoon she uses and the one she picked was fine.

My dad told me that he thinks dd "doesn't understand what No means," "is chronically disobedient" and that I "haven't taught her what No means."

My dd does frequently "disobey," often gets angry and is demanding "NO! I want this RIGHT NOW! I DON'T CARE! I DON'T LIKE YOU!" And she will often hit, or sulk, or scratch. I try to be pretty consistent in my approach, and generally set limits when it's a safety issue (I won't let her hit me or others if I'm around). I always tell her "We don't hit/scratch/etc." I try not to dictate small things, like what spoon she stirs the macaroni & cheese with.
I do sit with her while she throws tantrums or acts out, identifying feelings and actions and being calm and kind until she calms down, but I don't generally try to get her to stop crying/screaming/etc. I just make sure everyone is safe and wait for her to be done. We talk a lot about respecting people's space, taking space if we need it, being gentle, etc. I feel like I set a lot of limits and am constantly redirecting her. She is definitely attention-seeking and does things all the time that she knows she shouldn't (draw on furniture, sneak and hide things she deems "treats"), and is having trouble with potty training (she knows how to use the potty, but is really resistant to it and will frequently hold it until she has an accident).

There are a lot of things going on in our life right now that I think are lending to her anger, inflexibility, acting out, etc. Her dad and I are in the process of separating, there has recently been (although not at the moment) a lot of arguing and yelling in our home. Her dad also has a very different approach, more authoritarian, and so I think she gets inconsistent messages in our home.

I want to use GD but I guess I want it to "work" too, in that I want her to not be violent, disrespectful, bossy, etc. and be cooperative, kind, considerate, etc.

I also want to have a short, respectful but firm response when I get statements like "You don't teach her what No Means" from my dad.

I have trouble knowing in the moment what the right thing to do is. I was parented in a very authoritarian "Because I'm the grownup, I say so, this is my house, etc." way, and I do NOT want to use this method but it's also more "instinctual" to me to "make" dd do things when I'm angry, tired, frustrated, etc. I feel like I have to unlearn a lot of things, but also learn some basic, solid reasons to reassure myself when I'm feeling unsure and that could help me, in the moment, to choose a GD approach.

[kcstar]

I would say that what I learned about Gentle Discipline, I learned from watching my martial art (MA) master.

Dr. Sears writes that discipline comes from the same root word as "disciple", and means something more like "student", similar roots with "to teach."

What I learned from watching my MA instructors was that true discipline is rooted in love.

We did a lot of redirecting, and made a point to say "Stop" a lot more often than "No". That, or sometimes, as he got older, it would be "Yes, after.." or "Yes, if..."

When DS was 15 months, we visited relatives. So at one point DS was trying to go torment their dog, and I actually said "No." He looked to Dad, and Dad said "No." DS burst into tears, and I could see in my Uncle's eyes the surprise that we actually DID say "no" to DS, sometimes.

It takes a while to get it. My parents actually did breastfeed & cosleep at a young age, but they switched over to Dr. Dobson somewhere closer to 2. For their Biblical Patriarchy beliefs, obedience was king, even in things that really didn't matter, like riding a bike. So for me, avoiding power struggles is important. I try to work out what it is that I need in the situation, and what it is DS needs, and see if I can find a workable solution.

DH still doesn't quite get the "no power struggle" setup, but we're working on it. He's more of a Playful parent most of the time - so I got him that book.

[msmiranda]

Whenever I am questioning myself or feeling like being authoritarian in some way would be easier with my older son, I always try to remind myself to take the long view and ask myself questions like, "what effect will doing x have on our relationship?"; "will it make him feel belittled, disrespected, unloved, or unworthy?"; "how will doing x contribute to my long-term goals for him?" My goals are to teach him good values based on the Golden Rule, to help him become a loving, caring, self-confident adult, and to create a lifelong close relationship with him. In my opinion, based on my own experiences as a child, authoritarian/punishment-centered discipline destroys the trust between parent and child and creates a deep spiritual separation that it is hard to bridge later on. This is why I (imperfectly!) try my very best to use GD in our home.

[mrs.rich]

State what you DO rather than what you Don't

I read in another post here (I'll try to find it) that one parent had to figure out a way to communicate their parenting method to their extended family. She basically said, 'We don't hit and we don't punish' and let them sort the rest out for themselves through observing the parents' behavior. I liked that because it doesn't require you to go into detail how you'd handle every situation but gives others your guiding principles. After all, it's pretty obvious who 'hits and punishes' as discipline, just by observing their behavior. Hope this helps.

[mamazee]

Obedience is a tricky issue because people sometimes think children don't respect an adult if they don't obey them. So a child questioning why is seen as disrespect, when that is probably not what the child intends.

So she wanted to use a particular spoon, and your dad wanted to use a different spoon, and he interpreted her not immediately saying "OK whatever" as a sign of disrespect. But really it's just immaturity. Little things like which spoon or which cup to mean give young kids a feeling of autonomy, which is very spiritually nourishing for them, and when that feeling of autonomy was squashed, she felt wronged and cried.

I don't know if there's a good way to explain this kind of thing. My family is very very different than me on discipline issues, but I have a strained and only occasional relationship with them, so I don't see them often. But yes, every time I see them the issue comes up. I think it's easier for me with the strained relationship because I honestly don't care what my parents think. It sounds like you love and respect your dad and what him to respect you as a parent.

You could try saying something like that obedience isn't your goal, your hope is that your kids will develop an inner sense of right and wrong and learn to do things based on that rather than external control and obedience, but the problem is that he could take that as you saying you aren't happy with how he parented. It's really really tricky to communicate why you're doing something differently because your parents can think that you don't appreciate what they've done for you or think they were bad parents. I think the biggest issue is to first and foremost tell him you love him and appreciate how he parented you and are thankful that he is your father and is one of the people who raised you, if you feel that way. If that's established, then you can maybe gently say that you and he are different people, and obedience is not important to you like it is to him, or something. You could tell him that your way works best for you and your kids or something.

So I would be gentle in my approach, but on the other hand, YOU are the parent this time and you are the one who gets to decide. He really doesn't get a vote on it. And I think it's reasonable to gently place that boundary. (By gentle, I mean maybe not "you don't get a vote" but something like "I understand you don't agree with me, but I'm the parent this time so it's my decision and not yours.")

This is much longer than I intended and I've taken breaks from typing few times to take care of things around the house, so I hope it makes sense.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by chicaalegre

I want to use GD but I guess I want it to "work" too, in that I want her to not be violent, disrespectful, bossy, etc. and be cooperative, kind, considerate, etc.

Most of these things we teach by modeling and talking about the possible consequences of behaviors. For example if you are bossy or shout at your friends they will have hurt feelings and might not want to play with you or if you are rude to grandpa he might not want let you help him. We also talk about how my DD feels when people act in unpleasant ways. Our DD is almost 5 and it's working pretty well. She still has her uncivilized moments, but she's still learning. She is usually very compassionate and empathetic. I think parenting in a compassionate manner teaches LOs to be more compassionate.

One reason we use GD and have a mutually respectful household is because we want our DD to expect others to treat her fairly and respectfully. If we yell at her and are mean in our interactions with her how can we expect her to demand respectful treatment from friends later on. Another reason is we don't want to send a mixed message by being rude to her when she's annoying. Also obedience isn't one of our goals. Being able to make good choices about behavior is our goal. We often talk about why something is a bad idea and what things would be better. We have been since our DD was about 18 months old.

[Dingletwitz]

I've said before "I only want to hear from my daughter's mouth the same type of things that come from mine." or "I really dig the golden rule, even with my own kid" or "if I treat my daughter like I would my neighbor, she will also treat my neighbor well"

In the instances that others are being uh, controlling with her, I do step in and translate for dd. Like in the above example, I would probably have stepped in at the first protest and said "gpa wants to use his spoon but he also wouldn't mind your help. Can you help his way or do you need your own bowl to try?" and this usually helps a bit.

For some I've said "toddlers (or whoever) have a knack for getting adults to act like children. I'm gonna save you."

I'm pretty lucky--I hear my words in my child all the time. She says things like "what a great idea! let's do it!" or "I'll get it for you!" "I'm happy to do ___for you if you like" Not to say she doesn't have a full on meltdown about some things....but I always, always, look for what responsibility I can take in her discomfort (up too late, not fed yet, etc) and fix my end for the future, as well as helping her developmentally. I want her to really feel it -- Tripping out is not bad, really, we just have to tune it up for the future. I keep a mantra in my head--every behavior my child does has an appropriate place/time/etc. Sometimes it's just off a bit.

I model mistakes often--always owning them. Oh no! I made a big mess! I'll have to clean it all up now! or I had it all wrong, dd! I'm sorry I used a mean voice. What can I do to fix it with you? (Because, again, this is how I want her to be someday)

Like a PP, I see myself as the "first" teacher (most influential) so whatever I'm teaching her she should be able to use immediately out in the world. I would be mortified if my daughter said to Anyone "Do what I say now!" OMG. mortified. Because I would not be caught dead saying that. It's like swearing at our house.

[chicoandthemama]

Great responses! I've enjoyed learning from you all. One thing I have used, I don't remember what source I got it from, when trying to explain my style to potential babysitters, is that I parent as if the adult version of my child is in the room with us. How would that person respond to/evaluate my efforts? Respect is a two way street. Obedience is top down.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by chicoandthemama

I parent as if the adult version of my child is in the room with us.

That's a great way to think about parenting respectfully.