Help me think through this?

[AFWife]

Okay, DH isn't totally on board with no circ. He's not vehemently PRO on the subject either. Maybe I'll just share some disjointed thoughts:

For awhile he was getting upset because *I* was getting upset and coming across as attacking. I've since worked on that. Last night I shared some random bits of info I was finding...and then came across Dr. Sears (a doc he actually KNOWS OF and respects) and mentioned he was against circ. DH said, "You can stop bombarding me with info now." I froze because that is NOT AT ALL what I was trying to do. In fact, I was trying to seem as matter of fact as possible. After a pause he said, "I know that's not how you intend it to come across, but that's how it all sounds right now." He went on to explain that, for some reason he hasn't discovered within himself, he has a deep rooted belief that boys need to be circumcised. He said he's totally for looking at it but he'll have to get past whatever is going on in his brain first. We've already decided to shell out and have a mohel do it IF it comes down to do (30sec procedure by someone that's done tons of them instead of a 30min procedure by a resident or something...it's our middle ground) I did tell him that I'm still not okay with it and have mentioned more than once that I can't look at photos of the procedure or read about what happens or anything like that...it's too hard.

So, all I can do at this point is wait and pray right? We have until January to decide.

[mama24-7]

no time to type...this is for YOU:

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

sus

[Plaid Leopard]

Not to be snarky - but why should his deep-rooted belief that boys should be circumcised override your deep-rooted belief that they should be intact? Why should his feelings override your need to protect our baby boy from pain and trauma?
It's good that he recognizes that the issue is with him, and that he is willing to think about it. Perhaps instead of compromising on the method of circumcising, you could compromise on the time frame. Even if you decide to circumcise your son, it does not have to be done right away. You could ask your Dh to wait for a moth, a year, 10 years. Obviously, it would be better to leave the choice to your son when he is old enough to make such a choice.
In any case, no decision should be made until he addresses this issue that has solely to do with him and nothing to do with your son.
Yes, wait and pray - and stand your ground. If he cannot provide sound medical reasons that a son should be circumcised then he doesn't get to make the decision!

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by Plaid Leopard

Not to be snarky - but why should his deep-rooted belief that boys should be circumcised override your deep-rooted belief that they should be intact? Why should his feelings override your need to protect our baby boy from pain and trauma?
It's good that he recognizes that the issue is with him, and that he is willing to think about it. Perhaps instead of compromising on the method of circumcising, you could compromise on the time frame. Even if you decide to circumcise your son, it does not have to be done right away. You could ask your Dh to wait for a moth, a year, 10 years. Obviously, it would be better to leave the choice to your son when he is old enough to make such a choice.
In any case, no decision should be made until he addresses this issue that has solely to do with him and nothing to do with your son.
Yes, wait and pray - and stand your ground. If he cannot provide sound medical reasons that a son should be circumcised then he doesn't get to make the decision!

My feelings are fairly new...so not really as deep rooted to be fair.

And, if we do it, we would be waiting at least a couple of weeks...so I'd have that.

[Anastasiya]

I would give him the latest figures of circumcised infants (2009), which is reported to be at 34%, and tell him, "What if, when our son grows up and is in the minority, he has a deep rooted belief that boys are supposed to be intact, with all their parts, and wonders why we took something away from him that didn't belong to us."

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

I would give him the latest figures of circumcised infants (2009), which is reported to be at 34%, and tell him, "What if, when our son grows up and is in the minority, he has a deep rooted belief that boys are supposed to be intact, with all their parts, and wonders why we took something away from him that didn't belong to us."

I can try...however, statistics aren't really a good selling point because there are studies with good numbers on both sides. He knows this and will go search for the other side to compare.

[Isaac'sMa]

FYI, if you decide to circ and to use a mohel, many mohels will only circ a newborn, not an older baby.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by Isaac'sMa

FYI, if you decide to circ and to use a mohel, many mohels will only circ a newborn, not an older baby.

I figured as much. We'd probably do it after a week (that whole "8 days" thing and all) not anything past a week and half.

That's still a big IF because it will come out of pocket...

[blessedwithboys]

Originally Posted by Isaac'sMa

FYI, if you decide to circ and to use a mohel, many mohels will only circ a newborn, not an older baby.

yeah, bc after a certain age, you must legally provide anesthesia, it has to be done in a medical facility. that should tell you something right there, no?

[WaitingForKiddos]

Be aware that the '30 seconds' leaves no time for any pain control. While it takes seconds to cut off a body part there's going to be days, if not weeks, of post operative pain.

Personally, I'd take a 30 minute operation with pain control vs. a 30 second operation without.

[jenP]

He feels that boys need to be circumcised because he wants, no, NEEDS to believe that his own circumcision was Good and Right and Served a purpose. Deep down he may feel wounded or somehow inadequate or helpless and violated...but those feelings are too hard too drag into the open and deal with for so many men. Their "out" is to circumcise their sons in order to prove that circumcision is good and necessary.
I wish I had answers on how to deal with feelings like that! It is a very emotional issue for men, which explains to us perplexed wives who are giving them very factual, logical data, why they can get so crazy and illogical.

As for a having a mohel do it, if you see the movie "Cut" there is an up-close, detailed, real-time segment showing a mohelet performing a circumcision. Though it is relatively quick, it was well over thirty seconds (maybe 5 minutes?), and appeared to be very painful to the person to whom it was done. If you don't have access to the movie, PM me, I have an extra copy I could loan. (Also interesting to note that earlier in the movie this woman went on about how circumcision doesn't hurt, the baby only cries because he doesn't like having his diaper off and being cold, etc. Then when she is doing it, there is not a peep from the baby as she removes his clothes and diaper, straps his legs down, wipes a cold gel over his groin, etc. He ONLY begins to make any noise at all at the moment she puts one side of a hemostat inside his foreskin and the other on the outside and clamps it closed. As SOON as it is closed down, the formerly completely quiet baby begins to SHRIEK. So I'm thinking she was lying or deluded when she was saying it was all about having the clothes off and such.)
Another thing to consider is, when the kid is 40 and wishing he had a foreskin, will it really matter to him if the procedure that took this part of his anatomy from him 40 years ago took 3 or 10 or 30 minutes?
And, the week or two of painful healing (in a wet/dirty diaper) is unchanged regardless of how fast the circumcision was done.

Jen

[jenP]

Originally Posted by WaitingForKiddos

Be aware that the '30 seconds' leaves no time for any pain control. While it takes seconds to cut off a body part there's going to be days, if not weeks, of post operative pain.

Personally, I'd take a 30 minute operation with pain control vs. a 30 second operation without.

Not like there's going to be any pain control with the circumcision done in the hospital, anyway.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by jenP

He feels that boys need to be circumcised because he wants, no, NEEDS to believe that his own circumcision was Good and Right and Served a purpose. Deep down he may feel wounded or somehow inadequate or helpless and violated...but those feelings are too hard too drag into the open and deal with for so many men. Their "out" is to circumcise their sons in order to prove that circumcision is good and necessary.
I wish I had answers on how to deal with feelings like that! It is a very emotional issue for men, which explains to us perplexed wives who are giving them very factual, logical data, why they can get so crazy and illogical.

Jen

I really appreciate this. We've also had some, uh, marital stuff going on lately that *might* play into his feeling inadequate or whatever. I don't know what to do.

It probably makes me very un-MDC and will get me horribly flamed...but I don't want this to be a major source of argument with our marriage. We're already under strain because of other stuff. If we can find a sort of common ground with this then I think I can deal.



Ugh, I'm regretting this thread.

[Mackenzie]

How does his unidentifiable "deep seated belief" influence decisions? I mean, to make any major decisions in my house, you have to have identified why you feel the way you do...

"just because" is not good enough... especially when it comes to something that involves someone elses body...

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

It sounds like you are in a really tough position. I'm really sorry that your marriage is under strain right now. But, I think that your son's body shouldn't be a bargaining chip in a marriage. What happens when things do work out in your marriage? Is the fact that your son was put through a very painful unnecessary surgery going to be what saves it? What about if things don't work out in your marriage and you end up separated? Is having your son circ'd against your better judgement going to make that any better? I just don't want to see you do something irreparable to your son under circumstances that have nothing to do with your actual son, the person who will have to live with your decision for the rest of his life.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by AFWife

I really appreciate this. We've also had some, uh, marital stuff going on lately that *might* play into his feeling inadequate or whatever. I don't know what to do.

It probably makes me very un-MDC and will get me horribly flamed...but I don't want this to be a major source of argument with our marriage. We're already under strain because of other stuff. If we can find a sort of common ground with this then I think I can deal.



Ugh, I'm regretting this thread.

AFWife, I just wanted to offer you so me support. I stumbled across this board years before I had, DS-- before I met DH even I think. At the beginning I didn't realize what everyone was so worked up about. I just didn't think it was that big of a deal. I certainly couldn't imagine divorcing someone over it.

Then, slowly, slowly after years, and finally having DS, I've come to the point where I feel very strongly about it.

I feel like you and your husband are just in the beginning of your journey of figuring out how you feel about RIC. I can't imagine that once your eyes have been opened to the truth of it; that you will every go back to feeling ok about having it done to your son. Don't do this and have regrets later. Don't let your husband have regrets later. If you don't have it done; that option will always be there for you, your dh, or your son.

[Drummer's Wife]

Having a Mohel do it, there is still a chance of complications such as bleeding and even hemorrhaging. At least if you are in a hospital or doctor's office they are equipped to handle an emergency right away... plus, it is possible to demand and get anesthesia before the procedure.

Since your DH is feeling like circ'ing is the way to go, and you almost seem on the fence (or at least not adamant about it not being a consideration) why not wait for longer than 8 days or a few weeks? You can always have it done later on, but once the foreskin is gone, there's no going back.

[hakunangovi]

Originally Posted by AFWife

...but I don't want this to be a major source of argument with our marriage. We're already under strain because of other stuff. If we can find a sort of common ground with this then I think I can deal.

Kas, I think that if you did give in to your DH on this issue, you will end up resenting him over it for ever. You already know that circumcision does a lot of harm, causes a lot of pain, and essentialy has no benefits but carries a lot of risk. You are going to feel that you were forced into making a choice that you did not wish to make - and really it is not a choice that any parent should make - that should be the sole right of the owner of the penis in question - your son.

[WaitingForKiddos]

Originally Posted by jenP

Not like there's going to be any pain control with the circumcision done in the hospital, anyway.

Not that it makes circ okay or less evil but many, though not nearly enough, hospitals do offer pain control. Of course the Dr then has to choose to use it. And having needles in ones penis needs pain control on itself.

It's frustrating to see that something so wrong and harmful is portrayed as lesser if a certain practioner does it.

[Ann-Marita]

OK, so there's one vote for circ and one vote against. Let your son cast the deciding ballot.

Besides, HIS (your son's) vote is really the only one that counts. His body, his choice.