breaking the rocking nursing association, 3 yr old

[Shami]

Well...almost 3 year old. She turns 3 in late October.

I did the nurse on demand method until around two when I sort of night weaned. I also rock her to sleep on my shoulder.

Now, my shoulder has permanent pain and I can no longer rock her to sleep. I also want her to stop nursing. She nurses three times a day, morning, nap, and bedtime.

Actually my real desire is for her to go to SLEEP sort of by her self. I would like to do supper, bath, snack, brush teeth, read a book, MAMA LEAVES THE ROOM, and she falls blissfully asleep.

Right now, I do all of the above except I have to lay on her bed for 3 hours while she flips and flops around. I think without rocking she is trying to have this kind of motion. I do nurse her but I set a limit. Once we are done nursing I don't nurse again.

I have been doing this for almost two weeks. It was getting shorter but the last two nights were a three hour ordeal. She also begs for food and I get up to get her a snack. Tonight I played music for her toward the end of the three hours because of desparation, and she finally drifted off to sleep.

I talk to her all the time about "how" to fall asleep. Lay down, close your eyes, quiet mouth.

She was a cosleeper until two and by her choice went to her own bed.
Naps are impossible now. She won't go to sleep without rocking to sleep.

Sorry my post is so rambly...I hope someone has an idea for what my next step should be or how to help break the rocking association. Thanks.

[kdescalzi]

If it takes her 3 hours to fall asleep are you sure she is ready for bed?? Would she fall asleep much faster if she were rocked to sleep?? I would think she is simply not ready for bed if she flops around for that long. I recommend the book Sleepless in America. It has many good tips on calming our lo's and setting the mood to relax and prepare to fall asleep. I think your first step is to find out when she is calm and very sleepy and then work on trying to leave her in that state. I know many moms who wait until their lo's are very relaxed and then explain that they just have to pee but they will be right back....it turns into brushing teeth, washing face, using the washroom etc. Start with a 2 min break and come right back, then push it further. If she is very sleepy but also confident that you are coming back she may let you leave for longer and longer periods of time. Eventually, she should start to drift off while you are gone. I believe at that age she no longer needs the movement.... she needs your help to associate falling asleep with something else. Good luck!!

[lifeguard]

If naps are so difficult maybe she is ready to drop them. Perhaps with the dropped nap she'd be more tired at night & ready to go to sleep.

In my mind the steps to take would be something along the lines of I'll lie here until you fall asleep for a few nights, then I'll sit beside you for a few nights, then I'll sit at the end of the bed, then beside the bed, then by the door, then in the hall, etc. It would be a slow process from where you are to being able to just walk out of the room.

If you are doing a snack during the bedtime routine the begging for food thing sounds like a way to delay going to bed. My nephew used to be famous for this. You'd get him into bed & all of a sudden he was desperately hungry/thirsty. We had to put our foot down & say no more it's time to go to sleep.

[lookatreestar]

i agree, maybe drop the nap and she will be tired at bedtime? my dd rarely naps at 3.5...

[ChristyMarie]

I also agree about the nap.

What we did to break the rocking habit was to rock a little then transfer to bed with him when he got drowsy. Earlier and earlier in the drowsy process. Ever so slowly. We started reading a book, then rocking, then bed. Then book in bed, then us staying with him until he fell asleep. Now, finally, I can read a few books in bed, tuck him in and he goes to sleep on his own in about 5 minutes. It was a very slow process.

[Shami]

Thanks everyone!

Tonight was horrible. She fights sleep no matter what. In the past I also let her skip her nap and yes it is an earlier bed time, but it isn't a shorter process. Today for example:
Play outside at park for two hours.
Home for lunch
"quiet time" = her running and jumping everywhere while the cozy bed and dvd I set up plays with out her
back to play at mcdonalds play land (too hot out) for two hours
home to bath
eat, pjs, brush teet
6:15pm read two book while nursing
lights out
play soft music

8:30pm SHE IS FINALLY ASLEEP!

for two hours she flipped and flopped around, begged for daddy, begged for nursing, begged for rocking, begged for food, took TWO potty trips and cried for 45 straight minutes.
What finally put her to sleep was a story about mama when I was little.

I cannot rock her anymore. I have a shoulder injury. I can't even lift a gallon of milk without a sharp pain in my shoulder. It's from rocking her continuously to get her to sleep every nap and every bedtime. NO MORE can I rock. I can nurse, but I have to put boundaries because I am going crazy! I want my boobs back! she is almost three!

OKAY...breath... sorry for the rant

Could she be afraid to fall asleep? Did I do this to her? People warned me not to always rock her to sleep or let her fall asleep nursing, but I thought these people were a little mean spirited to say that. Now I am wondering if I should have listened to them. I feel bad that my baby girl struggles like this to lay down and close her eyes.

I don't know how much more gentle I can do this. I lay with her the entire time and encourage her to try to lay like this, close your eyes. She doesn't want me to rub her in ANY WAY, or hold her. So, I just lay with her while she wails. Boo hoo! I don't think I can do that much more. My heart is breaking a little bit.

I agree to drop her nap so that at least I can start the process earlier. To the poster who wondered if she was tired enough. On a regular day she would nap until a 4 or so and then I would start bedtime at 9 or 9:30 sometimes ten. Guess what? It would take until midnight for her to fall asleep with all of the same drama. One or two nights it took 2 hours. I've only been doing this for two weeks...feels like two years Thanks if you made it this far.

Oh and ChristyMarie, how old is your child and how long did it take to get to where you are at? Sounds like a dream...

[lookatreestar]

that still sounds really early to me personally. but what do i know? i still nurse my 3.5 year old to sleep whenever she seems tired (basically i know nothing about bedtime routines )

[desertsunrise78]

Try a later bedtime

6:15 seems too early to me as well. Maybe she's not tired yet. I know sometimes as a mom I just ached for that time alone, but my son promptly gave up napping at 3.....which meant I also gave up napping!

Those nights that he flopped around like that were just impossible! To aleviate my frustration, I tried a later bedtime & found that he fell asleep much easier.

Good luck.

[Shami]

thanks for the replies

Yes 6:15 is early, but I read two books and tell her stories which takes about 30 minutes.
Last night she fell asleep at 11:15
woke up at 7:15 am
no nap today

So...I felt like she should be ready to start the read-while-side-lying-nursing routine. If she would fall asleep nursing within a reasonable amount of time I wouldn't be on here begging for help. I really don't care if she nurses to sleep...But she won't...she will nurse nurse nurse and then want to play. So I used to rock and rock and rock her until I've rocked my shoulder out of wack.

If I wait until later it still takes her 2-3 hours just to STOP MOVING. It is the rocking association that has her body trained to move while falling asleep. Please anyone with more help to break this association??? This is what I really feel is the problem. I know my posts have been rambly and ranty, so finally I am stating that it is the rocking association that is what I really think is the problem. Rocking associated with falling asleep. I don't mind nursing, but she will lay there and nurse for 45 minutes if I let her, and then get up to play or jump or climb the walls. sigh Actually, now that I think of it, she likes to flip and flop while attached to my boob. She moves continuously through out the day. She can't even sit still to watch a dvd, which might be a good thing.
Thanks again everyone. I'd like to try what Christy marie said, but too bad I've already blown my rocking shoulder out of wack. I still enjoyed hearing her success. Maybe I can find a way to adapt her method.

[tangledblue]

My DD sometimes finds my presence in the room too stimulating. Maybe the same is true for your LO? I usually read 2 stories to my girl, sing 1 song, put her in her crib, sing a bit more, then sit there quietly for a little while as she rolls around/babbles. If I stay too long she starts hopping up and wanting to party, so I leave. Mama's there=time to play.

At first I used to just say something like, "I'm going to go do laundry, will check back to see if you're asleep" and if she didn't fuss I didn't go back in. Lately that seems to break her sleepy focus, so I sneak out quietly.

[JonahRoo]

I agree about the previous post regarding your presence being too stimulating for her. I noticed with my 2yr old (as we have just night weaned and still working on finding ways to get him to sleep) that the more I try to get him to go to sleep (rocking him, rubbing his back, reading, etc) then the more he works to keep himself awake (like flopping around and around and around). So one night i just sat by his bed facing away from him and let him do his thing till he fell asleep. And I noticed that he fell asleep much quicker than any other time that I tried to "relax" him.

Also, the first few nights of not trying to get her to sleep using the usual methods, or the first few nights that you just let her do her thing without you engaging her might be tough. But it would probably only be a few nights of discomfort before she began to tap into her own resources and soothing herself to sleep.

Oh, and one other idea might be to maybe give her "Rescue Remedy" Flower essence before bed? It might calm her down a bit? Or maybe putting a bit of lavender essential oil on her pillow or somewhere in her room. Just something to stimulate calm.

[Dingletwitz]

If you're anything like I was about that shoulder and my rocking chair, I feel for you momma. Finally, after many trips to the doc and whatnot, a massage therapist found my bicep tendon was out of whack, and she whacked it back where it belonged. It was a side-laying nursing injury, of all things.

Honestly, I used to Hate holding the kid with that angry shoulder and I had very little patience with dd/nursing when the shoulder hurt. I would just lay there and use every last bit of energy to be calm. Could that be affecting you?

I second the idea that the bedtime is too early. When dd (3.5) is up at 7:15 she won't be tired again until about 11. During growing times she's up from 6:30a to 9 pm. or so. (this is on weekends and days off only) Because school naps her every day, we're up until midnight because any other attempts to go down earlier have FAILED.

[jellybeanmumma]

Hope things are going a bit better. There has been some great ideas so far. DS is younger (14months) but we have just recently broken the rocking association. It probably took about a month or two to really stick, tonight was 1/2 hour from story to deep enough sleep for me to sneak away. We stuck to our routine for months (dinner, bath, story, lullaby music, lights out, nurse, rock, sleep). At first I only layed down with him some nights and rocked others especially if I felt he was a bit wired. We use the same music every night. I found now that if he is still wound up after dinner we spend longer in the bath which seems to soothe him or read more stories. On nights when my boobs need a break I lay him on his back on my tummy and kinda rock from side to side a bit or gently jiggle his leg a bit. So there is some movement to work out energy but still lying down and easier on my back. Some nights he needs to cry. I've been reading a bit about in arms crying to let out frustration and as a super active high needs bub I've found crying does help him release tension. If its one of these nights (usually after a few big days or a super stimulating night such as a busy restaurant) he can nurse as much as he wants but I wont rock him just lie beside him and listen to him as he gets it off his chest. I guess its kind of like when adults have a bad day it helps to tell someone about it. Sometimes I cuddle him while he cries sometimes not, I take his cue. When he's done he'll latch on then calmly fall asleep. Until we discovered this these were the hardest night with lots of flailing and hours of rocking. There is some interesting reading on letting kids express themselves through crying in the book Playful Parenting. Its not CIO cause you and boob are right there and with an older child reflective listening is also used so they feel their frustrations are heard and that its ok to express bad stuff and not bottle it up. Anyways stick with it cause it does take time to break the rocking habit. Best of Luck

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I don't have any advice for you in the short term but wanted to let you know that my DC had a very hard time falling asleep and developed a variety of associations throughout the early years. First it was nursing, then it was kneading my skin with her toes (yuck!), me being with her for hours, she took a pacifier from about 4-5 years, then around 7 she started listening to books on tape.

My point?? In the end, she is a fine sleeper. She still prefers the tape but can go to sleep by herself without it.