5-year-old off to school, new baby, most important vaccines?

[bjorker]

My 5-year old dd is unvaxed and will likely stay that way, at least for the time being. She is off to school this year, the exemptions are all filed and I'm not worried about her. I am uncomfortable leaving dd2, 8 weeks, completely unvaccinated with dd in school. I am not looking to hear arguments about why I shouldn't vax, this is not something that I *want* to do, but something I feel like I need to do. I AM looking to hear opinions about vaccines to consider, between likeliness of dd1 bringing something home from school vs risk of specific vaccines. I have armed myself with information between literature and attending a seminar given by an ND midwife, and of course have misplaced the Dr Sears book at the time I need it most. dd2's 2 month appt is this Thurs and I haven't made up my mind about which should be done right now. I have the added benefit of a ped that is an MD *and* ND, very knowledgable about bf'ing and open to discussing vax in a non-pushy way.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[heathergirl67]

If your only area of concern for getting the baby sick is your 5 yo then maybe you should vax the five year old. That way she can use words to express her reaction to the vaxes and her immune system is more developed. So she'll be prevented from being infected with VPDs and so she won't transmit any to the baby. Just a thought?

It seems like people are really for pertussiss or really against. I am pro, so the Tdap is one of my top vaxes, along with Hib.

[Marnica]

I guess I don't understand why you feel you *need* to vaccinate your newborn, but you are not worried about your 5 year old??

I would assume the same reasons you chose not to vaccinate your 5 year old would apply to your new baby as well. Unless you kept your 5 yo in a bubble while she was an infant, than I don't think her risk of disease is any less than your new baby's would be.

I think the things your 5 yo will be bringing home from school will be things that you don't vaccinate for. Colds, viruses, tummy bugs etc...IMO the best way to protect your newborn is to leave her immune system intact, and allow it to mature unmolested, breastfeed and concentrate on building up her immunity and the immunity of your 5 year old. If you feel you absolutely need to vaccinate, than I agree with Heather, vaccinate your older child and yourself and your husband. She (and you) are less likely (although there are no guarantees) to have an adverse reaction because her/your immune system is more mature.

[ema-adama]

I am not looking to hear arguments about why I shouldn't vax, this is not something that I *want* to do, but something I feel like I need to do

You must do what you feel you need to do.

You did not mention what you reasons are for not vaxing your older daughter. What is the reason you would not vaccinate your older daugther, but you would vaccinate your baby?

[MyBoysBlue]

What are you worried your daughter would bring home from school? I would start by looking at the vaccines for the stuff you think your daughter would pick up at school. My son's in grade 3 this year. They haven't had anything going around the school besides lice and a few sniffles in the past 4 years. Not even Chicken Pox has gone around the school. I think it's an unusually healthy school though.

[Emmeline II]

If someone "has" to be vaccinated I would do the 5yo and the adults, not the infant.

The nastiest illness ds brought home from K was bacterial pink eye and there is no vaccine for that; ds was actually on an inhaler for a week due to that and hadn't had more than a cold before. Pinkeye, colds, and diarrheal illnesses are what a school child is most likely to bring home. Other seemingly less common ones are Fifth's and HFM. I did not receive any notifications for VADs circulating in school last year; not even H1N1, though the first schools to be closed in the US to that virus were just across town.

When #2 was an infant I just took SA at the first sign of a sniffle; I took her everywhere I went for 2.5 years, including the "germest" place in town next to a hospital...the children's museum.

I'd check your library for Dr. Sears, but if you would like something to review in a hurry I'd watch the Tenpenny video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OORHqEedtUY .

[phathui5]

I am uncomfortable leaving dd2, 8 weeks, completely unvaccinated with dd in school

What is it that makes you uncomfortable? Which germs, in particular, are you nervous about?

[Ruthla]

Is the baby fully breastfed? If so, then she's protected via the immunities in your milk and is less likely to get sick than anybody else in the family. If the baby is on formula (or needs to be supplemented with formula or pasturized donor milk) then I'd agree she's at a greater risk of getting sick. If there are any VPDs that you feel are especially risky, I'd sooner vax the 5yo than the infant, to keep the big one from bringing germs home to her baby sister.

Do the girls have the same father? If not, is DD2's father less open to not-vaxing than DD1's father? I'm just trying to puzzle out why you're feeling compelled to vax the baby but not the kindergartener, and "pressure from different adults in their lives" seems like a likely explanation.

[rabrog]

The only thing DD brought home from K last year was basic tummy yuck. She threw up twice at school, it ran less than 24 hours and no one else got it here at home. She was also in preK when DS was born, she's unvax'd, DS is unvax'd. She never brought anything home, he never got anything.

I do understand the concern, but please don't feel you have to do something to protect anyone just because of school. The best thing you can do is have your K child wash hands as soon as they get home from school, honestly.

Jenn

[PlayaMama]

if i had to do it again (my dd was older when my ds went to school and we lived really remote) then i'd vax for pertussis (dtap) and the pneumoccocus congugate vaccine (prevnar).

pertussis in such a little baby would worry me a lot. i know some mamas don't seem to mind having their kiddos have extreme coughing fits to the point that they turn blue and/or vomit, but i do and i'd like to avoid it or lessen it if i can.

in fact, i just started vaxing my 2 yo and she got the dtap.

i have heard somewhere that older children tend to have worse rxns but i can't remember where i read it.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by bjorker

I am not looking to hear arguments about why I shouldn't vax,

also, in regards to the bolded, you might want to post in the selective/ delayed section as it is for information not debate.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

if i had to do it again (my dd was older when my ds went to school and we lived really remote) then i'd vax for pertussis (dtap) and the pneumoccocus congugate vaccine (prevnar).

pertussis in such a little baby would worry me a lot. i know some mamas don't seem to mind having their kiddos have extreme coughing fits to the point that they turn blue and/or vomit, but i do and i'd like to avoid it or lessen it if i can.

in fact, i just started vaxing my 2 yo and she got the dtap.

i have heard somewhere that older children tend to have worse rxns but i can't remember where i read it.

I find this statement a bit unfair. I worry about pertussis in a small baby and of course I would mind if my infant or child of any other age had extreme coughing fits to the point of vomiting and turning blue. To suggest that any mother "doesn't mind" is insulting frankly. I can only speak for myself, so it is not that I don't mind. It is that the Dtap is not without it's risks and I have found through my research for MY child who has a host of allergies that the potential riskk of an adverse reaction from the Dtap outweighs any possible benefit that it may have in lessening wc should he be exposed and should he get it. The Dtap is not particularly effective, it does not prevent transmission and it may or may not lessen the severity of the cough. I persoanlly know if a handful of fully vaxed children who had GOD awful cases of WC with vomiting and turning blue. IF the vaccine had been proven safe and IF it was more effective and IF it prevented transmission than I very might have given him the Dtap.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

also, in regards to the bolded, you might want to post in the selective/ delayed section as it is for information not debate.

While the OP did say she is not interested in arguements, I don't think anyone on this thread has started a debate or is trying to talk her out of it. In fact I (and several others) have advised her to vaccinate her older child and herself and hubby instead if she feels that vaccines are in order. The posts have simply been about trying to understand where the OP is coming from and why she is concerned. The main forum is a wealth of information and to insinuate that the she will only get "debate" here and not "information" is puzzling.

[bjorker]

No, I understand what she meant, particularly because nobody that responded actually tried to answer my question. Not that I didn't get anything out of your responses, but if I have a question for MDC in thr future, i will be posting in that sub-forum.

We will likely do HiB & Prevnar, but decided to hold off until (probably) 4 months. DTaP (or rather Pertussis, since that's the relevant part of the vax, IMO) I'm pretty torn on.

I think this question was pretty moot, anyway, since I can narrow them down myself btwn vaxes that target an illness she has any slight chance of getting in this country, and those that have little relevance to our life at this point.
Posted via Mobile Device

[momtoS]

Dr. Sears has a pretty good book out. He discusses the pros and cons of each vaccine and discusses how serious each illness is.

[japonica]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I think the things your 5 yo will be bringing home from school will be things that you don't vaccinate for. Colds, viruses, tummy bugs etc...IMO the best way to protect your newborn is to leave her immune system intact, and allow it to mature unmolested, breastfeed and concentrate on building up her immunity and the immunity of your 5 year old.

Yup, my DD has been in preschool, Kindy and now primary school. She's never brought any VADs home (it was my vaxed and up-to-date hubby who brought home pertussis) but she's brought back various colds and sniffles and a regular stack of letters home to advise us to check for lice, check for pinworms, HFM outbreak, ugh. (fortunately, she's not had any of the above, *knocking on wood*)

She did bring home viral conjunctivitis...pink eye...last weekend. That was charming...no vax for that one either. Lucky no one else in the family ended up with it.

My point is, as Marnica said, it's more likely you'll have to contend with lots of other illnesses and afflictions in the school-age kid than with VADs and anything that can be mitigated by a vaccine.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I find this statement a bit unfair. I worry about pertussis in a small baby and of course I would mind if my infant or child of any other age had extreme coughing fits to the point of vomiting and turning blue. To suggest that any mother "doesn't mind" is insulting frankly. I can only speak for myself, so it is not that I don't mind. It is that the Dtap is not without it's risks and I have found through my research for MY child who has a host of allergies that the potential riskk of an adverse reaction from the Dtap outweighs any possible benefit that it may have in lessening wc should he be exposed and should he get it. The Dtap is not particularly effective, it does not prevent transmission and it may or may not lessen the severity of the cough. I persoanlly know if a handful of fully vaxed children who had GOD awful cases of WC with vomiting and turning blue. IF the vaccine had been proven safe and IF it was more effective and IF it prevented transmission than I very might have given him the Dtap.

marnica,

i was referring to a recent thread here where the mama said that her 3 yo was on the floor vomiting spit and turning blue but she didn't seem that concerned. i can't remember which it was (and i'm not sure if i can link to it without violating the ua?) but it stuck in my mind. i should also clarify that i have no issue with the mama choosing to do what she felt was best for her family.

but for me, the statistical likely hood is that the vaccine _will_ lessen the severity (even if it doesn't actually do so) is worth the trade off of the potential side effects. plus diphtheria scares the beejezus out of me.

that was also why i said "some" mamas. i know plenty of mamas that choose not to vax and would be very concerned for their littles if they were in this situation. i didn't mean to imply that those that choose not to vax don't care for their kiddos!! my dd was unvaxed for more than 2-1/2 years and that was the choice i was comfortable making at the time.

we all weigh the evidence on both sides and the graphic image of someone's child coughing that hard was pretty intense. even though i have read studies that indicate that while the averaged length of the disease is lessened, there were still a few kids whose cough lasted longer than those that were unvaxed. still, if my daughter is within the majority, her hypothetical case of pertussis would be notable lessened and less severe. i just happened to pick that pony for now based on our circumstances. there are certainly other ponies in the race.

eta- i think the op addressed the second question pretty well. my reason for suggesting the selective/delayed forum was because i think she might have gotten a more factual answer to her questions rather than suggestions that seemed to question her decision. i don't think anyone tried to debate her, it was just a different style of answer that is in-line with the forum guidelines, if that makes sense?

[heathergirl67]

Originally Posted by bjorker

No, I understand what she meant, particularly because nobody that responded actually tried to answer my question. Not that I didn't get anything out of your responses, but if I have a question for MDC in thr future, i will be posting in that sub-forum.

We will likely do HiB & Prevnar, but decided to hold off until (probably) 4 months. DTaP (or rather Pertussis, since that's the relevant part of the vax, IMO) I'm pretty torn on.

I think this question was pretty moot, anyway, since I can narrow them down myself btwn vaxes that target an illness she has any slight chance of getting in this country, and those that have little relevance to our life at this point.
Posted via Mobile Device

I did. Like I said, my top two in importance would probably be Tdap and Hib.

BTW, I tend to agree with previous statements. Anywhere you post on MDC about "which vax is best" or "I want a vax, which one should I get?" you're more likely than not to get the: You shouldn't vax at all! They're all harmful and deadly. HTH!

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by heathergirl67

I did. Like I said, my top two in importance would probably be Tdap and Hib.

BTW, I tend to agree with previous statements. [I]Anywhere [/I]you post on MDC about "which vax is best" or "I want a vax, which one should I get?" you're more likely than not to get the: You shouldn't vax at all! They're all harmful and deadly. HTH!

Seriously? I'll refrain from comment here.

Playamama - Thanks for the clarification. Without that story about the other thread you read, it seemed like a judgement. Now it makes more sense

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by bjorker

No, I understand what she meant, particularly because nobody that responded actually tried to answer my question.
Posted via Mobile Device

I provided a link that may be useful since you are in a hurry and misplaced your book and I also posted that which diseases your older child is likely to bring home from school, none of which have vaccines. My ds did not bring home a single VAD last year despite being around 5 classes of kindergartners with the questionable hygiene habits of typical 5 and 6yos. Though I agree that you would more likely get the exact response you are looking for in the subforum.

The most likely VAD would be pertussis, but it is the most reactive vaccine and I would never give it to an infant.