Why cant I have this, do this, eat this?

[mom2happy]

My 7 yr old DD has been asking me all of these questions lately. She's noticing more these days how different our life style is from our neighbors and her friends.
Her biggest problems right now are:
Why she cant have a tv in her room when every single friend and cousin does.
Why she doesnt have her ears pierced.
Why she cant eat the kind of food or drink the drinks everyone else does.
There are more, but these are the highlights.

SHe is very logical and my explanations are enough for a while until she asks the same questions again. She is getting very irritated at me.
I just answer matter of factly that we dont do this or that becuase we feel it's important to do it another way for what ever reason.
I can see that there are going to be issues as she gets older.
I am empathetic to her feelings because my mother raised us the same way.
I always felt like an oddball and was never really in the loop of things. I'm still not. I dont care anymore because I realize now that I didnt miss out on much from the inexposure to media and pop culture.
As a kid though.....
I never knew what was going on or understood what the other kids were talking about. I lived in a land of unicorns, wildcats, and flowers. I guess I was ok, but DD is a little more aware of the differences. It's like she cares more what other people think.
My DH thinks I "missed out" on a decade (the 80's) because I have none of the same memories he does (all pop culture). I feel like, who cares?
I just wonder if fitting in and belng cool is just so important for some people.

Even if I let some things go, I know the battle will never end. I can not and will not change my beliefs on what is healthy and right for children and a family. It's just getting so hard as they get older to have to be the bad guy.

[Qbear'smama]

I can sympathize, I do allow DD some exposure to pop culture and have allowed it moreso now that she's in school and other kids have 'taught' her about these things. But the funny thing is, even if you allowed it, it's never enough, KWIM? I gave in with Disney things (it was just coming at us from all angles ) but DD wants to watch tv shows I don't approve of (which I don't agree to), why can't she have video games, why can't she have chocolate in her lunch like her friends, etc etc. At DD's age I can say that I think certain things aren't good for growing brains/bodies, etc (even though that puts other parents in a bad light for allowing them, but whatever) I mean really, what can you do beyond repeat the answers and stay firm? I don't have answers any more than you do, but I sympathize. Do you have an age where certain things can happen, like ear piercing? I haven't decided on that one yet, all I know is for now, it's no. At some point they'll have money to get the things they want, that worries me...

[velochic]

We are raising dd similar to the way it sounds you are your dd, but we haven't encountered the "why can't I" questions yet...hopefully never. (Dd is 8.5yo).

The important thing is to not make it a battle. I'm not sure quite how to do that other than just saying, "I'm not going to argue with you about it. This is the way we live. Others live differently." She may still try to make a battle out of it, but I think that there are some things that are worth putting our foot down for.

I don't agree with the Disney media machine and have never given into it. Dd didn't go through a princess phase (she wasn't exposed to it at home, but did so at school), has never seen Hana Montana and doesn't care about it, and doesn't even ask about watching the Disney channel even though we have it. (She knows we have it, but it's blocked, so when channel surfing it doesn't appear in the list and she just never remembers about it.) She hears the girls at school talking about these pop culture things, but the greatest influence is still at home. I was reading another thread where someone mentioned that Justin kid that's all the rage (I know only from the news) and their 7 yo talking about him all the time. At 7! My dd still likes the PBS shows like Clifford. I *like* that she's still a little girl. She is not 8 going on 16. She is 8 going on 9. She still believes in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy and loves horses. She doesn't have video games or drink soda or eat McDonalds. She is still innocent. And she has a TON of friends that do things differently, but she is learning the beauty of diversity in all things. All the girls at school are talking about that actress that played Beezus in the Ramona movie (can't remember her name) and dd just listens... she doesn't feel left out at all (I've asked her). Being culturally savvy does not mean you have to give into the pop culture media push. You're a perfect example of that.

So I have to say, that I agree with you 100% and I hope you stick to your guns. You can't avoid all the exposure to the pop culture, but you don't have to reinforce it at home. (And FTR, my dh is from Turkey and they do not raise their children at ALL like we do in the US, and the kids in his family all are turning out great!!)

[MJB]

I was also raised with little exposure to pop culture and honestly, I do feel like I missed out some. I didn't see the Goonies until I was grown up! Or listen to all kinds of great music that was made during my childhood. My husband always makes fun of me for not having seen anything.
I'm sympathetic to not wanting to feel left out. I don't think you should just give up your ideals-- I'm with you on not wanting my kids to watch a ton of TV or eat a ton of junk, but they are allowed to choose how to use their 30 minutes a day of screen time (in the living room!), eat pretty much anything on an occasional basis, listen to pop music, etc. Most days they eat only healthy food and drink only water. At a party they get cake and juice. Once in a while we get fast food. They know we are more restrictive than other kids' parents (especially with the screen time limit) but they understand and don't feel totally deprived because we don't take a hard line.
Also, maybe the ear piercing is something you could compromise on? What's the reasoning behind denying her that?

[LynnS6]

I'm happy medium kind of person. I'm not going to rule something out just because it's popular culture. But I'm certainly not going to allow something just because 'everyone else' does it.

We do TV, but there's one TV for the house and it's not in anyone's bedroom or the living room. My kids do watch TV, but we record things from PBS and the like on the DVR that they can watch. The one or two times I've caught dd 'channel surfing' (after she learned how to work the remote), she was watching... wait for it.... Iron Chef!

I'm not opposed to ear piercing (I've got pierced ears), but not until my child is old enough to care for them him/herself.

We don't do movies in movie theaters because my kids are highly sensitive to visual images, themes and sound. We don't do them often at home because of the imagery/theme sensitivity. I'd consider a movie in a movie theater if a really good movie came along that I felt was appropriate.

Our diet is the one thing that I wish was better, but have decided it's not worth the fight (not with my kids, but with my husband). Dh has sensory issues and was raised on bad food (not necessarily bad for you, but not tasty). He eats no veggies and darn little fruit. And he's a WAHD, so he's in charge of a lot of lunches. Dh's idea of lunch for the kids is Ramen Noodles. I've had to work hard to get him to add protein and fruit. Our kids get a relatively balanced diet, mostly cooked from scratch. But they eat Nutella and ramen noodles some days. They've had chips and pop on special occasions. We have graced the doors of McD's from time to time, mostly when traveling.

What I've discovered however, is that my kids have relatively good habits when left to themselves. Very often, when offered a choice between something like a cookie and blueberries, they'll choose blueberries.

I think when you do things differently than your neighbors/cousins/friends, you need to evaluate: Is this counter to my core values? Could I live with this? Why is this important to my child?

I think it's also important to note that there are a lot of things that go into keeping a child 'childlike'. Exposure to more mainstream things doesn't mean that your child will automatically be 'tainted'. Lack of exposure to popular culture doesn't automatically mean that your child will remain innocent. My kids watch some TV, have access to a computer to play computer games, and we own a Wii. Yet they're still highly imaginative and playful. They're quite innocent. Most of their play focuses on their stuffed animals. (Right now, they've just conducted a trial with their friends and declared that Floppy the Frog has to go to jail.)

Mostly my kids don't do pop culture because dh and I don't care. Kids take their cues from their parents for far longer than people realize.

[ecoteat]

Sharing the same cultural experiences as your peers is not all about fitting in and being cool. My daughter is only 4, and I am very selective about what media/food/toys/etc she is exposed to, but I also feel like there is some societal value in having some sort of collective cultural awareness. I've never tried to articulate this before, but this thread got an immediate and clear response from me, even if the words aren't quite there.

[bonamarq]

We are very media conscious and are thrilled dd feels the only thing on the tv is pbs or news (she knows we get animal planet, but doesn't ask - if on the very rare occasion she gets to see it, we mute the commercials) - we are very careful about commercial exposure - and we are very upfront (dd is nearly 7) with WHY and on the occasion she sees commercials we tell her they are just trying to trick her into buying things she doesn't need - she gets very indignant and 'refuses to be had' - early in the summer she wanted to go to McDonalds just to get a toy (we do not eat there - ever - she has been inside one a few times to 'play' when we were on the road and she needed to expend some energy) We explained the scam - and luckily dh and I separately gave her the same explanation without having discussed so she really saw it as the genuine truth

so after this long ramble what I mean to suggest is maybe you need to explain your reasons further - in terms she can understand but that go beyond simply 'that's how our family does things' - maybe you do this already? My dd will never get a tv in her room, and we do not have one in our room - we say it is unnecessary and will rot her brain...

we also happen to live in a very diverse (socio economically more than ethnically) so she sees that others make different/poor? choices and what the consequences are (she sees kids eat total crap and they are fat/not healthy)

I cannot believe she hasn't pushed back a bit more since entering public school - although even in daycare she had classmates OBSESSED with hannah montana???????

Honestly I use these as opportunities to further discuss/reinforce our reasons/values for doing things differently - she knows we're different tho - starting from the fact she was born at home (NO one she knows here was hb)

[The4OfUs]

I let my kids in on pop culture (kid kind, not grownup kind), but we also *discuss* it. For instance, we were watching the Disney channel one time and a quick segment on a Jonas Brothers concert came on, and I said to them, "I don't really get why some people get so excited about famous people...I mean, I admire their talent and they put on a good show I'm sure, but screaming? crying? passing out? going crazy over them? I just don't get it. They're just people who sing well." 2 weeks or so later my son (6 yrs) came home from school and said, "Mom, people are gong crazy over these silly band things. I mean, they're kind of cool and all, but I don't get it. They're just rubber bracelets." Atta boy!! When we see the rare commercial (though they do watch a fair amount, it's about 95% noncommercial), we talk about how it's the commercial's job to make things look way cooler and more necessary than they really are.

My kids also regularly hear my vents about how hard it is to find a toothbrush or chair or other things without a character plastered all over it, and how having everything available with characters is so much overkill. I let them each pick out a couple character Tshirts each season I buy clothes, but everything else is non-themed.

They are also very dismayed to find out that they will not have TVs or computers in their bedrooms, that *if* they get a cell phone it will be a bare bones prepaid just like ours are, and that so much of what is deemed "necessary" in society really, really isn't.

I was fully immersed in pop culture as a kid, BUT never got obsessed with anything - IMO, it's the obsession level that causes problems, not just being around it and appreciating some things from it.

Soooo, I guess what I'm saying is that even if kids are exposed to pop culture/mainstream society and like/participate in some of it, that it doesn't mean they have to be deeply invested in all of it. I'm a moderation in all things kind of gal, too. I don't feel like people who are TV free or don't know about Justin Bieber or never eat an Oreo are smarter, or more healthy or more creative than me or my family....and there is the danger of a certain air of superiority transmitted when you use the "we don't do that in our family" thing, or "society is stupid" kind of vibe...you have to be very careful how you present it all because it can backfire, I've seen it happen first hand, and I choose my words carefully when I talk about things with my kids, cause I've had first hand experience with a blunt kid saying something that offended someone...and that's not my aim in life, even if I am "right" (it was a comment about how bad smoking is).

Family values are important, but I also think that sharing experiences with people who are not family and feeling like a part of something has value, too - not as MUCH value as family, but some value...no man is an island, and all that. Sure, many things in our society aren't necessary or beneficial to my and my kids' development, and some are even minorly harmful (i.e. sugar, etc.)....but I don't ahve real lofty ideals in that sense, that everything we do, see, say, and put in our bodies has to be beneficial. Sometimes, watching crappy TV while eating crappy food is just fun. and sometimes fun is enough. Sure, there are other types of fun too, and we do them too - but sometimes 'bad' fun is OK too. <Insert disclaimer about my kids not having any circumstances that would make junk food majorly harmful to them, etc.>

[Qbear'smama]

ITA with the posters who said they discuss pop culture and media with their kids. Even though my DD is 4, I still try to have critical discussions about the messages behind these things and I think it is having an impact on the way she thinks about it. It's important to me that she understands that commercials are trying to get something from her, not just showing off some great toy. I also agree that some knowledge of pop culture is ok, just not immersion in it and thinking that consumption of it defines her identity.

We eat McD's once in a while (very seldom, way too gross) and DD and I discussed how the salt and fat content contribute to people wanting that kind of food and thinking it's delicious but that these levels of salt and fat are harmful. She gets it.

I hope this isn't too off-topic. I am finding this discussion very interesting. I think it's really important to be reflective about what mainstream society is offering up to us and our kids, which I guess we all do to some extent, which is why we're here (MDC), right?

[velochic]

What I find objectionable about pop culture icons today is that they are just HUGE media marketing tools for big business to make LOTS and LOTS of money. They don't care about a product they are "selling"... they just label it, market it, make you want it, and get you to spend money.

So, it's not that Hanna Montana is a show. It's that there is an entire INDUSTRY surrounding it which has the singular goal: make you part with your money. From folders to pencils, toothpaste to toothbrushes, juice boxes to ...other foods, etc., they use this pop culture to sell you something. It turns children into MINDLESS consumers. They aren't evaluating the quality of the product or if there is a reason they maybe shouldn't have it. They see it and want it because of the picture on the product.

There's more to it than just that, though. When I was a kid, if you wanted to watch a show, say Wonder Woman (which empowered girls, btw), you stuck around home on Wednesday nights to see it and that was that. You didn't get to record it (no way to) and watch it over and over again. If you were lucky, you might get a Wonder Woman lunch box and that was about it. It didn't invade every aspect of your life. And having these crushes on boys? I remember my first celebrity crush - David Cassidy. I certainly wasn't 7 or 8. The problem is not liking a singer and his/her music... it's the sexualization of these stars to make little girls swoon. Sure, David Cassidy was "sexy", but the girls that "went for him" were 13, 14... not 6, 7, 8. He wasn't marketed to LITTLE girls. It goes hand-in-hand with g-string undies in size 4 and peek-a-boo shirts for 7 year olds, etc. I'm sure many won't agree, but I *do* think it pushes kids, especially girls, to grow up more quickly.

I agree that when talking to others about "why don't you", you have to be careful to not come off as questioning their parenting choices for doing it differently. My pat answer is, "It's just not something we're interested in" or "It's just not something we think about a lot" or "We don't really have time to watch TV" (if that is the question). People have different priorities and I'm 100% unapologetic about what ours are, but don't see the sense in trying to explain to anyone in detail. To your kids, yes, explanation in detail is important, but to others... they probably wouldn't understand it anyway.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by velochic

What I find objectionable about pop culture icons today is that they are just HUGE media marketing tools for big business to make LOTS and LOTS of money. They don't care about a product they are "selling"... they just label it, market it, make you want it, and get you to spend money.

So, it's not that Hanna Montana is a show. It's that there is an entire INDUSTRY surrounding it which has the singular goal: make you part with your money. From folders to pencils, toothpaste to toothbrushes, juice boxes to ...other foods, etc., they use this pop culture to sell you something. It turns children into MINDLESS consumers. They aren't evaluating the quality of the product or if there is a reason they maybe shouldn't have it. They see it and want it because of the picture on the product.

There's more to it than just that, though. When I was a kid, if you wanted to watch a show, say Wonder Woman (which empowered girls, btw), you stuck around home on Wednesday nights to see it and that was that. You didn't get to record it (no way to) and watch it over and over again. If you were lucky, you might get a Wonder Woman lunch box and that was about it. It didn't invade every aspect of your life. And having these crushes on boys? I remember my first celebrity crush - David Cassidy. I certainly wasn't 7 or 8. The problem is not liking a singer and his/her music... it's the sexualization of these stars to make little girls swoon. Sure, David Cassidy was "sexy", but the girls that "went for him" were 13, 14... not 6, 7, 8. He wasn't marketed to LITTLE girls. It goes hand-in-hand with g-string undies in size 4 and peek-a-boo shirts for 7 year olds, etc. I'm sure many won't agree, but I *do* think it pushes kids, especially girls, to grow up more quickly.
.

I actually do agree with you - which is why we experience pop culture, but aren't *invested* in it. We watch Hanna Montana sometimes, and enjoy it as a show - but we don't own anything with her on it. We listen to pop radio in the car, but don't download the songs or have posters or watch movies or go on their websites or follow on twitter. We're dipping our toes in pop culture and mainstream society, not diving in headfirst. So basically, we're protecting the kids from the obsession/sexualization/growing up too quick while still giving them a consciousness about it. I can't belive that my kids seeing Hanna Montana, or listening to Lady Gaga but still maintaining age appropriate clothing styles and expectations to be polite, kind, and respectful is going to have them grow up too quickly. I guess I feel like experiencing pop culture/mainstream doesn't HAVE to be the same as it invading your whole life. It's very, very easy to say NO to the Hanna Montana lunchbox. You just say NO, explain why, talking about why having images all over everything isn't a value you share, and buy a different one - and if your kid throws a fit, you handle it like you handle any other fit they throw. And then watch the show on TV later that evening and enjoy it as a family. I think this is just as much about setting limits for kids as it is about what the pop culture is embracing at any given moment.

[One_Girl]

I compromise on a lot of little things like clothes if they are the same price, lunchboxes, hair cuts, etc... I am not oppossed to the pictures or words but am to the shows and my dd watching things that encourage attititude and values I don't want my dd picking up on. My dd is perfectly fine with not watching the shows as long as she gets to seem to be participating in the same things her friends are and this compromise hasn't brought values that I am uncomfortable with in the house. Yes we are buying into pop culture and making a company even richer, but when we shop we buy into some type of culture no matter how small and I would rather support my dd's ability to make decisions that fit fit into our value system than get caught up fighting about something that really isn't a big deal to me like having a Hannah Montana shoe or lunch box. In the three years since I have been allowing my dd to buy character things I have not found that buying one thing opens the floodgate to breaking down our boundaries. I have found that it helps her accept the boundaries and internalize them.

[The4OfUs]

That's really interesting, OneGirl, that you choose to do the products but not the show, and I choose to do the show and not the products. I totally get your point, though, and like it. That's cool. :

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

I compromise on a lot of little things like clothes if they are the same price, lunchboxes, hair cuts, etc... I am not oppossed to the pictures or words but am to the shows and my dd watching things that encourage attititude and values I don't want my dd picking up on. My dd is perfectly fine with not watching the shows as long as she gets to seem to be participating in the same things her friends are and this compromise hasn't brought values that I am uncomfortable with in the house. Yes we are buying into pop culture and making a company even richer, but when we shop we buy into some type of culture no matter how small and I would rather support my dd's ability to make decisions that fit fit into our value system than get caught up fighting about something that really isn't a big deal to me like having a Hannah Montana shoe or lunch box. In the three years since I have been allowing my dd to buy character things I have not found that buying one thing opens the floodgate to breaking down our boundaries. I have found that it helps her accept the boundaries and internalize them.

This is the OP.
I guess this is more what I feel. DD got a Hanna Montana gift set for her birthday when she was 5. She heard all of the other kids always saying that name, but didnt know who she was. She wanted to hang the picture on her wall and I totally let her. I feel like our lifestyle is so different from everyone else around here, that if she feels good to put a picture of a teenage girl on her wall, its ok. She still has it up (at 7), still doesnt really know who she is.
Its not that Im so opposed to pop culture, I just know that it definitely sends strong messages on how to act and feel.
I want my children to be children while they are children.

to answer a few questions posted:
I will let her make the descision to get her ears pierced when she is 10.
I do allow a short tv show a few times a week.
I watch movies with them sometimes and have the pause button ready for the constant questions and explanations.
They can have treats to eat and if we go somewhere around their peers, to a party, bbq, etc. they can have what everyone else is having.
We dont have any video games because they dont know what they are yet- so I havent figured out what we'll do.

DD is just angry a lot and sometimes things come up where she gets so mad about the way things are here.
It seems like the girls and boys my kids ages are SO much more grown up. I dont know if its good or bad for sure. They are learning fast. They seem more street smart and kind of manipulative in a way. Its like they arent innocent or something. They dont know how to free play with toys. They look for the next activity before they half way finished the first. They are just so different. Not that they are bad, just different. But the thing is... it's us who are different. We are the ones that everyone thinks are different. Sometimes I feel like with the way this generation is being raised, are my kids going to be fast, quick, hard enough to deal with their peers in adult life? Are they not going to be able to cope with things because they were breastfed, cosleep, raised AP? Will they rely too much on human connection when most of the world has learned fullfillment through technology?
I dont know, Im rambling and have a million more thoughts. I still cant change the way Im raising them, because that wouldnt be possible.
DD is just so hard to deal with and I know when she is a teenager I will be in for it.

[The4OfUs]

I guess I'm not understanding what the other kids are doing that's so different from yours, if you posted this:

to answer a few questions posted:
I will let her make the descision to get her ears pierced when she is 10.
I do allow a short tv show a few times a week.
I watch movies with them sometimes and have the pause button ready for the constant questions and explanations.
They can have treats to eat and if we go somewhere around their peers, to a party, bbq, etc. they can have what everyone else is having.
We dont have any video games because they dont know what they are yet- so I havent figured out what we'll do.

If your kids are getting to do all that, I guess I just don't see the problem or how they're SO different from their peers. What are the peers doing that makes them seem so much more grown up? You wrote they're ready for next activity before first is done, but that seems like inattention more than growing up too fast (which is an issue in our society but I think there are enough of us doing thigns differently it won't completely change), and doesn't seem to be a big thing I'd worry about personally. Or the open ended play, I don't sweat that my kids seem to be the ones that make up games and have creative things in their heads and peers seem to follow more...those two things don't seem like they would influence your kid in a negative way, they just might play differently with those kids than they do at home.

My son is 6, will be 7 in January. Things he picked up in kindergarten that I wasn't thrilled with: Some crude language, and some "boyfriend/girlfriend/love/kiss" talk....but I just explain our values and expectations, and let it go after that...and even that kind of talk was still VERY much "little kid" innocent kind, so I tried to not make too big a deal out of it.

I guess I'm wondering what your daughter's peers are doing/acting like that makes your daughter feel so much different? From your update, it seems like it's maybe the amount of time/quantity she's exposed to these things (being the exception and not the rule in yoru house) as opposed to not being exposed to them at all. So maybe I'd tackle it from an "everything in moderation" type of angle, since many of the things she *does* get to experience, just infrequently.

Does that make sense at all? It feels kind of rambly and incoherent.

[The4OfUs]

I just had another thought....you posted this in your OP:

As a kid though.....
I never knew what was going on or understood what the other kids were talking about. I lived in a land of unicorns, wildcats, and flowers. I guess I was ok, but DD is a little more aware of the differences. It's like she cares more what other people think.

.

I was a child of the 80s, and every girl around me loved hearts, rainbows, unicorns, and horses, fairies, etc. I did not. It just wasn't an interest to me. I liked plenty of other "girly" things, in addition to loving the Transformers and HeMan - I just wasn't into fantasy/magical/natural stuff back then...but I don't think not being interested in those kinds of things = loss of innocence. Not being interested in the mystical/magical/natural world doesn't mean a kid isn't innocent, it may just mean they're not interested. :

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

I guess I'm not understanding what the other kids are doing that's so different from yours

Its the way they act. Its seems like they know what's up about certain things. They say different things, expect different things out of life.
The same things that my kids get so happy about dont make sense to their friends.
They dont have the same things in common.
For example:
DD goes to neighbors house.
THe things to do are: Nintendo DS, American girl dolls, put on make up, watch a movie in their room, kareoke machine singing with Hanna MOntana.
My DD is out of the looop. Its like another planet.
Which Jonas brother is the cutest? DD is like, what?
Any way thats what I mean.
Oh yeah, and the bad language and ideas of naughty sneaky things to do.

[The4OfUs]

OK, now I get it. That is pretty sucky as the only options. BLEH.

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

I just had another thought....you posted this in your OP:
.

I was a child of the 80s, and every girl around me loved hearts, rainbows, unicorns, and horses, fairies, etc. I did not. It just wasn't an interest to me. I liked plenty of other "girly" things, in addition to loving the Transformers and HeMan - I just wasn't into fantasy/magical/natural stuff back then...but I don't think not being interested in those kinds of things = loss of innocence. Not being interested in the mystical/magical/natural world doesn't mean a kid isn't innocent, it may just mean they're not interested. :

No that's not at ALL what I meant.
I mean the loss of innocence due to so much exposure the an adult made media world geared towards kids.

I wasnt talking about anyone's interests having anything to do with innocence. I'm talking more about learned behaviors and addiction to materialism.