~*~September Pagan Family Circle ~*~ - Page 11

[Brittee]

Welcome COVegmom, Liz.Furtado!! I just recently joined this thread myself, and it is quite a community here.

DoK - Thinking good healthy thoughts for you and your procedures.

Valerie - That car is SO grounded, like, for life! I'm sorry that happened to you. It's so frightening not being able to do something as simple as stopping at a red light. Here's a wishing you a better night's rest.

As for me... My work situation has gotten very sticky. I volunteered to work at the job offering more money while waiting for the results of my drug test and background check with the job I would love to have. It's never a good sign when the other workers tell you on your first day, within 20 minutes of your arrival, that you should not stop looking for a job. It's a very hostile situation there, and not a very healthy environment, but at this point I need to have at least a little bit of a safety net.
As for my freelance props job, certain members of the production staff are stressed out because the show is being reblocked and started looking for someone to blame for the show being subpar. Can you guess who they picked? Yeah, company email has been an all out bitch fest about what a crappy props designer I am, even though I am following the directions I was given, and if I were to defend myself in this current environment, it would only get worse. So at the moment I am doing my best, the best that I can. It's kind of funny, in the past I would have gotten mad, like blow up and pop mad. But this time around, I am just really hurt. I am so done with this company. DH and I need to just go ahead and win the lottery already.

[redveg]

Originally Posted by aweynsayl

eta: i think i just realized i need to take a pagan thread break

I have so been there. Hugs to you. I hope you are back and chatting soon. Thinking of you sending thoughts and good vibes your way. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

Originally Posted by Valérie.Qc

I need hugs...

The brakes broke just has I was coming to a red light yesterday... I was able to manage not to hit the car in front of me and the upcoming trafic on the other street then ended up in a yard not to go down the hill. The kids were with me. Big stress! DH picked up the kids and I came back home in the towing truck.

Between the adrenalin rush I got and the sleepless night that followed, I'm K.O.

Oh my gosh!! I think I would have pooped my pants! I am so glad you are not hurt

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

feeling a bit weird today... talked to our realtor about a short sale and dead in lieu of foreclosure. she had some good news and i was feeling really like this huge weight was lifted. like my frustration cup was emptied. then just now i got a little sad. that once the house in maine is gone, we are sorta closing that door on that adventure. almost like it didn't happen. it feels weird, because it didn't go like i thought it would, with a few exceptions it sorta sucked. but it still feels i don't know, sorta sad to have that thing be over.

h

Hugs mama. I wish my adventure here was over.

Originally Posted by Aubergine68

redveg, thinking good thoughts for Seti. Please keep us posted!

Thanks Seti had his surgery, everything went well. I am hoping to pick him up on Saturday and I am so excited! I miss my little guy.

Originally Posted by NewMoonMum

Add to this-and I could *really* use some pointers here-the past couple of weeks he has decided to be defiant for the sake of defiance.
Up till now I could hardly believe how polite and well-behaved he was for 2.5!
He does not have full-blown tantrums, but will do the typical "do something-Mommy says stop-so do it again!!".
Then sometimes he MUST contradict me, no matter how little sense it makes:
Saying it's dark outside before the sun has even set, to which I reply "Not yet, it's still light out". And he YELLS "It's dark outside!!!"
Every time he goes potty the last few days, and I ask him to shake a bit so he won't drip, he gets upset and cries "want to drip all over!!"

I mean, I don't know anymore when to completely ignore it, when to calmly ask him to stop yelling...I do believe in time outs, but I use them sparingly. Past few days pretty much not at all, because he is so defiant I don't want to render them useless. I'm sorry for the sililoquy, I just really need some help!!

I would ignore it, but that's me. The more attention I gave my guys, the more they feed off it. They could just tell when they we pushing my buttons. I agree with the timeout situation too. You don't want to use it so much that they don't care about it anymore.

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

i can't, i can't see my life as bad anymore. i want to no longer be angry or frustrated or depressed. i want some freaking hope! and i am not allowing him to bring me down. he got all mad and said he is in a good mood, he sings and smiles. i said where do you do this? work? lol
anyway, i just am no longer going to dwell on this. i can't. it felt like a huge weight was lifted off of me today and i was full of joy. you know when you ask the universe for something you get it... just maybe not what you were thinking you were going to get. i wanted the house to no longer be a problem... well there you go! lol
we still have the open house this weekend, we haven't done any paper work to set any of this up. so who knows some lucky person could be waiting for saturday to come look at our lovely house and want to snatch it up! and then this worry and fighting would all be for nothing. lol
you know i have this little baby growing inside of me and i just want to be in a good space, and you know he never asks how the baby is or how i am. he only touches me if he thinks he will get some booty. i know alot of this is because he is depressed, but you know what? i am still sick of it.
anywho... i am just going to be happy and have fun and do what i can to make this a good life for the kids and me and if he wants to join in, then we will gladly let him.

h

Sounds like a great attitude to take Being down, always worrying that's no way to live. I can so relate to your statement. I am going to change my outlook/attitude

Originally Posted by Brittee

As for me... My work situation has gotten very sticky. I volunteered to work at the job offering more money while waiting for the results of my drug test and background check with the job I would love to have. It's never a good sign when the other workers tell you on your first day, within 20 minutes of your arrival, that you should not stop looking for a job. It's a very hostile situation there, and not a very healthy environment, but at this point I need to have at least a little bit of a safety net.
As for my freelance props job, certain members of the production staff are stressed out because the show is being reblocked and started looking for someone to blame for the show being subpar. Can you guess who they picked? Yeah, company email has been an all out bitch fest about what a crappy props designer I am, even though I am following the directions I was given, and if I were to defend myself in this current environment, it would only get worse. So at the moment I am doing my best, the best that I can. It's kind of funny, in the past I would have gotten mad, like blow up and pop mad. But this time around, I am just really hurt. I am so done with this company. DH and I need to just go ahead and win the lottery already.

That stinks! I hope we both win the lotto!

[redveg]

Maia, I just wanted to add, I am pulling for you. I truely hope things workout for you and M

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by witchygrrl

Maia, it will all work out. Remember to manifest the best possible outcome for your relationship.

Just booked a trip to FL for Thanksgiving. Going to see my aunt and my grandfather. It's been a few years since I've been on a plane and the first trip on a plane for DD. Should be interesting.

Thanks, witchy. It's hard to feel, right now, after this devastation. I look at my TM and think "what went wrong?" It all seemed so right, so perfect (well, almost ) before this trip.
I'm so hurt. Before last week, I always thought of him with anticipation and positive expectation-- now I'm feeling depressed, sad, and dread. I'm so afraid. I so want things to work out, but I'm not feeling too hopeful right now. I have some hope-- but I can't help but think if he can act that way towards me once, that it will become the norm at some point, and I have BTDT way, way too many times. I am not going to be someone's boil on their bum yet again.

Am I wrong in thinking that in a relationship, the partners should put each other above all else? Am I wrong in thinking each should be the other's exalted one? Am I deluded? Those of you in decent marriages-- how is it for you? Even in hard times, do you still put one another first? How do you do that, when times are hard? What if your honey treats you like shite, in the midst of Stuff? Is that OK with you? And if not, how do y'all come back from it?

Is it default behavior for someone to pull away and act like an a$$hole when things are tough? Is "sorry" enough after that?

Is it possible that M is having mixed feelings, and his own stuff going on, and I shouldn't take it personally? I am sure he didn't mean to hurt me. I'm sure he didn't realize, in the midst of it, that that's the pain that I'm used to from past failed relationships. He walked away from the train crying, because he realized he treated me badly! But he didn't tell me for like 3 days!
But what if it DOES become the norm? Like I said, I have been in that role before, and it's enormously painful. This triggered old stuff for me. I know he didn't know that at the time.
Or should he be aware of how I'm feeling, and not be like that towards me, even in his hardest times? How do I become toughened to it? Or should I? Should I even have to?
What is the middle ground?

I have a trip already booked up to see M on Thanksgiving... I told him he needs to actively work on sobriety between now and then..

Originally Posted by redveg

Maia, I just wanted to add, I am pulling for you. I truely hope things workout for you and M

Thank you, redveg. I hope so, too. We have so much invested in this. I know that if this doesn't work out, I will probably be way too damaged to ever love again...this one took 7+ years to find, and I was pretty hopeless when I re-found M. He was, too. We are both so damaged from our pasts. I hope we can mire through it, somehow, and come out the more positive with/for each other. I think it feels so hopeless and impossible for both of us. Or, each, I should say.
I am sure he's the one for me...or, I should say, I know there isn't anybody else, ever.

I'm glad your doggy came out of his surgery alright

Sorry for all the rambling...lots of swirling thoughts.

[Indigo73]

DOK, thinking of you.

[COVegMom]

Originally Posted by Maiasaura

Welcome and MM, COveg!
Easy-peasy, for me. I love the shorter days and the longer nights and the darkness
I nest. I hibernate. I make warm, comfy things in the crockpot. I put cinnamon sticks and orange peels in lots of water, in a pot on the stove, and simmer them all day long. I burn candles. I wear snuggy clothes around the house, and huge sweatshirts outside. I put on the flannel sheets-- there's nothing in the world like sleeping nakey in flannel sheets and a ton of comforters! AND I just got a new cape from QVC, or HSN, or one of those TV places. It's supposed to be a winter cape-jacket thingy, but it's very witchy and I'm very short, so it comes down to like my ankles It's this, in black: http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/v...ed-Fleece-Cape

Thanks Maia, I am going to work hard on not feeling stuck inside this winter and really enjoying it. My path, I seem to be drawn to a Wiccan or some type of Neopagan path. In all of the spiritual writings I read, I find the parts about connecting with nature to be what resonates with me. So I am on a quest to find a nature based practice that feels completely right and that I can share with my son.

I am sorry to hear about the struggles you are having in your relationship. I just divorced in January after a long and losing battle with my husbands depression. Depression became addiction and compulsions and emotional abuse. I can really relate to a lot of what you are saying and also the parts about old hurts being triggered and making it all the worse. My biggest fear now, as I am entering a new relationship is that I will end up in the same place again. I see people who have great relationships around me though. They really do support each other through the hard times, and just as importantly turn to each other. You can be the most supportive person ever, but if someone won't turn to you and allow you to be there and work with you to get through the rough stuff there is not a lot you can do for them.
Big Hugs and I hope you find answers and peace soon.

[femme_rouge]

****Morning Mamas****

Maia-Big hugs. This situation sounds so hard. I really hope it works out for you. I personally don't think you should feel you have to be "toughened" about anything. I know you know that you can't change him, but you can know and state what you are and are not OK with. I'm not trying to be to down here but to give feedback to your question about BTDT- You sound pretty clear that you won't do that again. So, maybe while you're in the thick of it right now, just take a deep breath and trust yourself. If (worst case scenario) it did turn into a situation that you're not alright with, know that no one will take better care of you than you. You will not let that happen. You are wise and love yourself too much to stay in a bad situation. You deserve love and to be nurtured.

Now...this is not to say that I don't think things can be worked out, or that relationships can't get through difficult situations. You are the only one knows that for you, and you are the one who gets to decide what you are or are not willing to do. I just wanted to talk about your own self love,worth and trust. I'm sorry this is so painful. I hope that M is at a place in his life where he is ready to love himself and accept your beautiful selfless love. I really really hope this for him and you. Best of luck, calm and clarity on The Conversation(s).

Valerie-I am SO glad you are all OK. It would take me awhile to get over something like that. Scary. How are you doing?

DoK-Big hugs. Hoping all is well with the scans and that they bring peace of mind. As far as the procedures go, I've had them both. While certainly NOT fun, they weren't too bad for me. Honestly, I found the prep for the colonoscopy to be more uncomfortable than the actual procedure. I'm really glad your mom can be there to help you out.

Awyn-Oh...I'll really miss your posts. Of course, I understand. Come back when you feel ready. I'm here if you want to PM.

A big to all the new folks. It's great to have you energy here. Can't wait to get to know you all better.

I need to get the school thing going this morning. My ds slept from 5:30 last night to 6:30 this morning! He is SO chipper right now. Yesterday I had a bad case of the blues. I'm hoping they're gone now. I think I'm needing some Me time.

Wishing everyone a beautiful weekend with smiles and laughter.

Courtesy of DS:

[bluets]

Originally Posted by Aubergine68

Hi bluets - nice to see you on here again! Very interested re: the bodywork you're doing. What is it, exactly?

it is real naturopathic manipulation but it has a foundation in osteopathy. no cracking or clicking most of the time. but definitely working with bones and their proper alignment, using long levers, practitioner's bodyweight, and tapping into involuntary body mechanisms. we avoid short sharp quick thrusts coz that's what chiropractors do and we don't want to be seen as infringing on their territory.

my mentor says that if a movement is done on the floor, it is yoga; if it is done on the table, it is naturopathic.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by Maiasaura

Am I wrong in thinking that in a relationship, the partners should put each other above all else? Am I wrong in thinking each should be the other's exalted one? Am I deluded? Those of you in decent marriages-- how is it for you? Even in hard times, do you still put one another first? How do you do that, when times are hard? What if your honey treats you like shite, in the midst of Stuff? Is that OK with you? And if not, how do y'all come back from it?

well, we always put each other first. my dh always reminds me to take time for myself when i need to sort things out in my head.

for us, times get hard when we're spending too much time together. like when we lived in Chicago and commuted in 1.5 hours each way from the suburbs to downtown to work. oy - that was a recipe for disaster. now, we're still "commuting" together but we also work together so it does get hard because dh can't leave work at work. i do disappear from time to time because i don't like having work infringe on my time at home.

a good friend once told me that men are generally 3 months behind women when it comes to handling emotions that are associated with life changing events. my observations with dh support this anecdote.

Is it default behavior for someone to pull away and act like an a$$hole when things are tough? Is "sorry" enough after that?

i understand the pulling away (because i do that - to clear my head and gather my thoughts) but the other part - being generally not nice - is not acceptable. i think dh and i spent the better part of our first 2 years with me telling him what is and what is not acceptable behavior, establishing personal boundaries, and so on.

[bluets]

DOK - hope things turn out well. healing thoughts to others who need it.

welcome to the new ladies this thread tends to move FAST and i've learned that sometimes i just can't keep up (and i have to keep reminding myself that's ok).

healing thoughts to sick pets. my sweet old lady kitty is doing much much better (she's regained weight - definitely a good thing!) though i think it stinks that she has to be on drugs. hyperthyroid in cats essentially means thyroid cancer. wish the first vet had told me that. i also wish we had a holistic vet closer - i'm not going to haul my cat for 30 minutes on winding country roads to the holistic vet in the next town over. sigh.

Valerie - yowsa! glad everyone is ok.

apologies if i missed anyone.

[Valerie.Qc]

Hugs and good vibes for those who need them!


I'm okay. Dealt with some funky drops in my blood pressure yesterday (and I'm a 100/60 so not much wiggle room) but feeling better this morning. I hate adrenalin/cortisol rushes!

We are missing our outing to the orchard... no good apples for us this year we'll be stuck with store bought stuff.

I'll take DH's truck to go to boxing training tomorrow... first drive after the incident.

[wombatclay]

DoK- I hope everything goes well and there is nothing scary as a result of the testing. And I hope they figuure out what is causing the problems and have a quick/easy/inexpensive fix! Hang in there!

Vet hospital- Yay for good results! We had some excitement at the vet hospital here a while ago... the guys from the OCC show (Orange County Choppers, on Discovery I think) stopped by the vet hospital. One of their dogs had been injured while they were on the road and I guess either Cornell was close or Cornell was the best option... anyway, I think everyone in the vet college ended up "casually wandering through" the vet hospital wing in hopes of seeing the camera crew and the "stars" of the show.

Today is dd1's first day of "gramma school" My MIL has her till 2pm. I'm thrilled they'll have some time together each week but the driving is going to kill me. It's an hour from our house to hers so it's an hour in, and hour home, then another hour to get back there, then killing time from 2pm till 6pm in town so I can pick up DH at work... then the half hour from there home. Dear lords. It's crazy!

UU/RE teaching- what do you all think? I'm supposed to go to the training tomorrow and start teaching RE (preschool group) but I really don't even want to be at the UU services this year. I'm not sure why, but maybe it's because it feels like a burden... there is SO MUCH we need to get done around here and the UU services (because of dd2's needs and now because I'll be teaching during the service) jsut don't do anything for me. I don't get to hear the sermons, this year as a teacher I wont be in the service at all (teachers fo right to the classrooms), we can't stay for the "coffee hour" because of dd1's food issues and dd2's social anxiety, we can't attend any of the "events" because of those same issues, etc. In fact, before getting the call asking me to teach I'd sort of decided that we'd be taking this year off from services.

Ugh. I dunno. I feel like it's important for the kiddos to have a regular religious outing, and a supportive community but... how much is that "worth" in terms of sacrificing? I'm worried that I'll be giving up a lot for something that isn't "crucial" right now.

And speaking of...

Am I wrong in thinking that in a relationship, the partners should put each other above all else? Am I wrong in thinking each should be the other's exalted one? Am I deluded? Those of you in decent marriages-- how is it for you? Even in hard times, do you still put one another first? How do you do that, when times are hard? What if your honey treats you like shite, in the midst of Stuff? Is that OK with you? And if not, how do y'all come back from it?

Well, honestly, no... we don't put the other person first. We see ourselves as partners and as equals. I know you don't mean it in a "negative" way, and I'm not trying to say that putting someone else first means that it isn't equality... but this is actually something that came up very specifically when DH and I were going through a rough time and were getting therapy so I'm really sensitive to the exact language being used.

Basically, I felt like DH wasn't putting me first when (again in my opinion) I was putting him first. And, it turned out, DH felt like I wasn't putting him first when he (again in his opinion) was putting me first. The problem was that each of us had different things we thought of as important markers of behavior... we were both waiting for the other person to "get it right" and assuming that their lack of whatever was either a deliberate "diss" or a sign of self centered/selfish behavior. And then we'd start acting out of that "I put them first and they don't care" anger/hurt/fear and the whole thing would spiral into poo.

It took a lot of time and energy and outside help to unravel everything and figure out a way through. Which for us was the realization that every individual is reswponsible for their own fullfillment and in charge of their own happiness. Not in a lah-di-dah rainbow and butterfly way and not in an anarchy "do what feels good way" but more... I don't know exactly. It's kind of complicated and hard to type out coherently! But basically, I don't expect DH to treat me as an "exaulted one" and I don't treat him that way... those expectations are just too high, and no matter which side you're on you'll eventually feel hurt or rejected or pigeonholed or limited or like you're doing more than your share of whatever it may be.

Now, I love my DH to the ends of the earth, and I treat him as I would like to be treated. I expect him to behave well, to treat me as he would want to be treated, and to show his love for me too. But after 17 years together I know that he wont surprise me with a touching gift or unexpected love note. I know that if I want something specific I need to not just hint but tell him flat out what it is, where to get it, and in some cases... buy it myself, wrap it, and give it to him with instructions to return it to me on my birthday. He shows love by building our house, working long hours so I can SAH, by cooking weekend brunch, by keeping the cars running. He simply wont remember to do the little "love note" things that make me "feel loved", and that's ok.

For years it really really hurt. But we've worked through that and I accept him for who he is... I love HIM, regardless of how he feels about me or demostrates those emotions. He shows love by fixing the car. It doesn't "feel" like love to me, but there it is. I don't show love in the same way he feels it either. I get him trinkets and notes and little surprises and flowers and special baked goodies... but until we hashed everything out he didn't realize those were "I love you" messages. He is much more physical than I am. So, I do make an effort to meet him on those terms but he accepts that I probably wont.

Ooops... gotta start that hour drive! I'll be back, and I've probably made a mess of my explaination. Obviously this is just dh/I but your question sounded almost word for word like what I would have said when we started therapy and it jumped out at me!

ack ack... running late!

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by COVegMom

I can really relate to a lot of what you are saying and also the parts about old hurts being triggered and making it all the worse. My biggest fear now, as I am entering a new relationship is that I will end up in the same place again.

The problem is, this is a new relationship. Or, we went out in high school; this is new again, if that makes any sense. We reconnected after 35 years. It's almost a year old, and long-distance the whole time.

Originally Posted by bluets

i think dh and i spent the better part of our first 2 years with me telling him what is and what is not acceptable behavior, establishing personal boundaries, and so on.

You telling him. Hmm. Does that mean it was mostly, or all, him whose behavior was unacceptable? Did he think you were nagging when you told him what is and is not acceptable? Or did he step up to the plate? Was there some of each?
Apparently it worked itself out, though, huh. Was it uber hard for two years? How come nobody gave up?

Originally Posted by wombatclay

Well, honestly, no... we don't put the other person first. We see ourselves as partners and as equals. I know you don't mean it in a "negative" way, and I'm not trying to say that putting someone else first means that it isn't equality... but this is actually something that came up very specifically when DH and I were going through a rough time and were getting therapy so I'm really sensitive to the exact language being used.

No, I didn't meant it negatively at all! Why isn't putting someone first not equality? I meant...I meant...oh ow, Clay, you had to get specific on me! I don't mean putting me first over himself. I mean putting me first over other things, like the computer, or work, or housework, or laundry, or the car. Over having to go to the store.

Over anything that is distracting him from being with me when I really need it.

Months ago, we had an agreement, and it was his idea, btw-- that if it was crucial, if I really needed him to stop whatever-it-is and give me his full-on attention, that I am supposed to tell him, "M, I need you NOW." I don't do it that often, because it has to be pretty crucial. I hardly use that, ever. It has to be really important.
I did that, this trip, and he refused me. Even when I reminded him of his promise. That was the first time he ever did that. I consider it reneging on a promise. He's always stopped whatever-it-was when I asked him to, in real need.
I'd love to hear more about your therapy and exact language thing. Maybe in PM or FB.

Basically, I felt like DH wasn't putting me first when (again in my opinion) I was putting him first. And, it turned out, DH felt like I wasn't putting him first when he (again in his opinion) was putting me first. The problem was that each of us had different things we thought of as important markers of behavior... we were both waiting for the other person to "get it right" and assuming that their lack of whatever was either a deliberate "diss" or a sign of self centered/selfish behavior. And then we'd start acting out of that "I put them first and they don't care" anger/hurt/fear and the whole thing would spiral into poo.

I wonder if this is what we are doing? Or, part of? I should ask him, huh, what his "important markers of behavior" are.
There were times, this past trip, though, that he WAS deliberately dissing me. He admitted to it, and feels horribly shameful over it. Problem is, and I tell my ds about this all the time, try to act so you won't have to apologize. Plus, sorry has two parts: words AND action. Only now, M has acted in such a way as to breach my trust entirely. That's going to take hella action to make up for.

But basically, I don't expect DH to treat me as an "exaulted one" and I don't treat him that way... those expectations are just too high, and no matter which side you're on you'll eventually feel hurt or rejected or pigeonholed or limited or like you're doing more than your share of whatever it may be.

Maybe...but how to undo my expectations? How to undo that I really do feel that way? Plus...he's put me on this pedestal for a year, which I've never felt before in my whole abused life, and it was amazing.
I was just starting to trust that I really could mean that much to a person, and then...poof. Gone. All just like every other sh!tty relationship, all in two days
And here all this time, he's the one kept saying "when are you going to believe me? When are you going to know that you are it, that I mean it, I will never leave nor forsake you, you are my everything" I was finally starting-- just starting, mind you-- to believe that.
Poof. Shattered.

and in some cases... buy it myself, wrap it, and give it to him with instructions to return it to me on my birthday.

Wow, really? I have thought about doing that very thing Your dh sounds like M, in some ways

M is not a gifty sort. He has written me exactly one handwritten letter. It was not a love tome. His way is to send me links through StumbleUpon
We looked briefly at the Love Languages. We both are the ones that like lots of words, I think it was, forgot what it's called.

I am touchy-feely, though, in a HUGE way. I think I get people touched out-- I have to try to be sensitive to that. Even my ds. But it's really hard trying to balance my excessive need to be touched, with other people's need not to. And that's hard, because I am always on the losing end of that one

He simply wont remember to do the little "love note" things that make me "feel loved", and that's ok.

Yeah, I am getting the idea that M is like that, too. He's not gifty or notey or any of that, and I am SO like that. I like to get those things...but he DOES walk by and ruffle my hair, and for me, that's just as good, really.

He shows love by fixing the car. It doesn't "feel" like love to me, but there it is. I don't show love in the same way he feels it either. I get him trinkets and notes and little surprises and flowers and special baked goodies... but until we hashed everything out he didn't realize those were "I love you" messages.

I am like that, too. I wonder if M knows those are "I love you" messages? I should ask him. I should ask him what ARE "I love you" messages, for him. I should probably tell him what "I love you" messages are for me, huh? Not the gifty things, but behavior?

He is much more physical than I am. So, I do make an effort to meet him on those terms but he accepts that I probably wont.

So...I am apparently MUCH more physical (sex-wise) than M is. Are you talking sex, or just touching? How do you make an effort to meet him on those terms? I would like to pass on the message to M, if that's OK, in a way that makes sense to the both of us in our particular lives. Maybe if I do, I can accept the terms, or we can come to some kind of meeting of the minds?

Anyway. Thanks, Clay.
About the UU-- maybe you should call them and say you took the job when you thought you could handle it, but you made a mistake and you really can't. And offer to be a sub, to make up for it?

[Indigo73]

Originally Posted by wombatclay

Well, honestly, no... we don't put the other person first. We see ourselves as partners and as equals. I know you don't mean it in a "negative" way, and I'm not trying to say that putting someone else first means that it isn't equality... but this is actually something that came up very specifically when DH and I were going through a rough time and were getting therapy so I'm really sensitive to the exact language being used.

Clay, YES!!! I really wanted to answer Maia's question and I just couldn't find the language.

Maia, DP & I have together for 15 years, over 10 married. And boy are we opposites in a bajillion different ways. But we have always been able to talk. Yes we slam doors in fits of temper, but we are usually back to the conversation within 15 minutes, cooled down and ready to come to a compromise or the realization that we agree to disagree. Can this conversation take weeks or even months? Oh yes.

We have "rules" that others find crazy, like no purchases over $50 are made without discussion. Even if it's just, "I want this and I have the money." But that is what works for us.

What am I trying to get to? Okay here... we talked long and hard about marrying, for years we made the decision not to marry. We taked about our expectations, we talked about our goals, we talked about needs.

He doesn't buy me flowers, he buys me CDs or plants. I don't buy him tools, I give him gift cards to the video game stores or ties with the black plague. I expect him to call me when he is not where he is not supposed to be and he expects the same. If he wants to go out with the boys for a beer and there is nothing planned I encourage him to do it.

We have our own lives, but we are also a unit. It's going to take some bumping, grinding, reshaping and rethinking to make that unit chug away as it should. But it is a completely two way street. You (universal you, not you you) cannot fix him/her (the other half), you can only fix yourself.

Wow, that was way more than I intended to write and I am sure some of it is as clear as mud.

[_ktg_]

Replying to things which jumped out at me...

Originally Posted by Maiasaura

There were times, this past trip, though, that he WAS deliberately dissing me. He admitted to it, and feels horribly shameful over it. Problem is, and I tell my ds about this all the time, try to act so you won't have to apologize. Plus, sorry has two parts: words AND action. Only now, M has acted in such a way as to breach my trust entirely. That's going to take hella action to make up for.
<<snip>>
Maybe...but how to undo my expectations? How to undo that I really do feel that way? Plus...he's put me on this pedestal for a year, which I've never felt before in my whole abused life, and it was amazing.
I was just starting to trust that I really could mean that much to a person, and then...poof. Gone. All just like every other sh!tty relationship, all in two days
And here all this time, he's the one kept saying "when are you going to believe me? When are you going to know that you are it, that I mean it, I will never leave nor forsake you, you are my everything" I was finally starting-- just starting, mind you-- to believe that.
Poof. Shattered.

Let me first say - I am not familiar with the in/outs of dealing with an addiction. BUT the bolded parts stuck out to me because I think beyond just the regular mucking it out and finding a path together all of us go through in a marriage, you have something additional to deal with which is M's addiction.

I'll be honest and I am saying this with lots of love Maia - when I first read about your last trip & about what M said to you, my first thoughts were - wow he is trying to drive her away and become a self-fullifing prophecy in that he is an unlovable person. I think that set-up and pattern and such... gets him "off the hook" for being accountable to not drink.

I do not think you need to undo your expectations. You are asking things of your partner, which he should provide because its a partnership. Perhaps a bit of minor readjustment, but that comes with time, patience and communication.

I think M has a tremendous love for you and very little for himself sadly enough, and that is heartbreaking. I think while he has this amazing love for you, I think he will test often how much you love him.

[witchygrrl]

Maia--I've known Dh for 14 years this month, and we've been together for almost 12 of them. It took DH nearly 3 years to tell me he loved me....cheesy as it might sound, but it was Sept. 11th when he told me. He was in Canada, and since most of his family was in the NY/NJ area (and some were on their way to the Trade Center...and were thankfully late), he was pretty damn worried about what was going on. At that time, he figured out that yeah, he really did love me and missed me terribly.

I often joke that I lost the rest of my patience waiting for him. But we make it work. Yes, there's things about him that drive me nuts (don't even get me started on how he cleans the house), and there's plenty about me that drive him up a wall, too. And sometimes, he's emotionally distant because he has a hard time understanding his own emotions. I get that, but it's hard nonetheless.

We also have had different physical needs throughout our relationship. I used to have a raging sex drive. Then it was him with the raging drive. Now neither of us has the energy most of the time, but we have a two year old. Whatever...it'll change over time to something else.

M has a LOT to work through. and it's just plain tough to be in a long-term, long distance relationship. But basically, it seems to me that you two have come to the point in the relationship where it's not fantasy anymore, and here's where the real work begins.

[unschoolinmom]

Massive multi-quote

Originally Posted by NewMoonMum

Oh my Goddess!! I have to update you all!
My test results came back already. Not only NORMAL-but the number they are watching for-my bile acid levels-WENT DOWN since my first test!!

Yay!!!

Originally Posted by Maiasaura

I was right.

Maia

Originally Posted by wombatclay

I need more me!

I'll get to work on the mommy splitting machine right away, Clay.

Originally Posted by redveg

Morning


My DH turns 49 today

Happy belated Bday!

Originally Posted by COVegMom

Hi there!

Welcome!

Originally Posted by Liz.Furtado

Hi there!

Welcome!

Originally Posted by Valérie.Qc

I need hugs...

The brakes broke just has I was coming to a red light yesterday... I was able to manage not to hit the car in front of me and the upcoming trafic on the other street then ended up in a yard not to go down the hill. The kids were with me. Big stress! DH picked up the kids and I came back home in the towing truck.

Between the adrenalin rush I got and the sleepless night that followed, I'm K.O.

Omg! How scary! Glad you are all okay.

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

feeling a bit weird today... talked to our realtor about a short sale and dead in lieu of foreclosure. she had some good news and i was feeling really like this huge weight was lifted. like my frustration cup was emptied. then just now i got a little sad. that once the house in maine is gone, we are sorta closing that door on that adventure. almost like it didn't happen. it feels weird, because it didn't go like i thought it would, with a few exceptions it sorta sucked. but it still feels i don't know, sorta sad to have that thing be over.

h

It happened and you'll always remember, but the beauty of adventures are to have the old ones and create even more new ones!

Originally Posted by Aeress

Ah Thank Goddess! We are unfounded, just waiting for the final paperwork to come in but we had the last visit.

YAY!

Originally Posted by Maiasaura

The problem is, this is a new relationship. Or, we went out in high school; this is new again, if that makes any sense. We reconnected after 35 years. It's almost a year old, and long-distance the whole time.

Long distance is very hard Maia. B is usually in Paris more than here in the US. I have my dh, but my life seems odd without them both. They both have their "issues" and I tried to carry them for the longest time, but realized that no one can grow, learn and become strong without falling and skinning their knees.

Sometimes, we have to fall a lot as and as the women who love these men, watching them fall hurts, equally as watching our children sick and not being able to help them.

I see a therapist myself for when it becomes too much. *hugs* to you hon. It is really hard but I think you're doing a great job.


***********update**************

Today was my OB appointment for the first time and it went great. He understood my alpha thalassemia and will be sending me to fetal-maternal medicine for consultation on my blood disorder and to just be monitored. Babies born to moms with this tend to be small and he said the baby seemed on the small side. Both my others were pretty small too.

I have to get another GTT test and fast this time and another CBC which we already know will be low. I think my WBC (white blood cells) will be wonky since I've been sick but I'll be sure to let them know that. They also want to retest me for Rhogam though I got that done for my prenatal screening and was fine. Strange. I guess I'll be getting this all done next week.

He's open to letting me try different birth positions even in the hospital which I'm happy about. And will let me hold my baby for awhile instead of having him taken from my arms. All in all, I think it went well and he's right on top of things.

Hope all have a great weekend. Tonight is dd's first day of dance class and she's pretty excited and I think I'm going to be resting most of the weekend. I hope.

[DaughterOfKali]

Clay- Re: UU stuff- A friend of mine went through this last year. She was just so overloaded with stuff that she decided that church wasn't the best thing for her family at this time. So, she told the RE Director that she won't be teaching after all. (She even went as far as resigning from membership altogether.) She's very happy she did it. She said it gives her and her family time to chill out and be together.

I have to go to the Teacher Orientation at church this Sunday. I'm not teaching this year but I've been 'working' with the Acting RE Director to develop a short training segment for working with all the kids we have on the autism spectrum there.
I was originally going to bring ds but I need to do everything I can to make sure he doesn't get sick (so that I can have my procedure done on Tuesday.)
I'll have to see if his father can come over early and watch him.

[NewMoonMum]

Maia-I think ktg made a really important point.
I could sure tell you my own answers to some of your questions, DH and I have hit roadbumps many times over but overall we're really happy and solid.
And I really hope what I have to say does not sound harsh. I just wondered if hearing it could save you some frustration and hurt.

But, I don't know how much any of that would help. I also think the overshadowing issue here is that M is an alcoholic.
That makes things impossibly complicated, and I am not even sure if it's possible-and probably quite unhealthy-to try to mend such a relationship without professional help.
I don't want to sound like a super downer, but I had to be completely honest.
I know what it's like to live with a very abusive drunk(my mother). NOT that I'm saying M is abusive...just that I understand some of the pitfalls specific to being involved with an alcoholic.

I remember one single conversation with my mother, years after I got out of the house and away from her. I though we might have made a little bit of headway...that she might have heard just one point I was making about a particularly bad thing she did to me several times.
That was maybe a year before she went on a really bad binge, almost died, but survived and ended up in a nursing home for good, with alcoholic dementia. That was when I was 24. Now she often does not even know what year it is-any chance of any kind of resolution with her is gone.

My long-winded point is, I tried my entire life to work on a reasonable relationship with my mother, and doing it alone, I yielded exactly one promising conversation.
I am definitely not saying to give up. But I am saying, attempting to deal with this by yourself could be very painful for you, especially with your own abuse issues. I think you said you cannot afford counseling.
Is there any kind of free or low-cost clinic by you where you might be able to get some help? What about a support group...I know there are a few out there for families of alcoholics, maybe that could be a place to start.

Oh I really wish I had something more positive to say, or helpful...
lots of love and positive thoughts your way

[bluets]

Originally Posted by Maiasaura

You telling him. Hmm. Does that mean it was mostly, or all, him whose behavior was unacceptable? Did he think you were nagging when you told him what is and is not acceptable? Or did he step up to the plate? Was there some of each?
Apparently it worked itself out, though, huh. Was it uber hard for two years? How come nobody gave up?

Some of his behaviors were unacceptable for someone his age at the time.

I should stick in here that we started out as an almost long distance thing then I told him he had to move to my state and get a job because I wasn't going to do a long distance relationship again. BTDT too many times. He showed up on my doorstep the next week, and had a job a week or two later. We were engaged at the end of our first year physically together (but living together that whole time), then got married a year later. So we've been together 14 years, 12 of them married.

He started out working in technical support for an ISP (in the days of dial-up and only dial-up). I would often hear him stomp all the way down the long long hallway to the apartment. Then he'd explode into the apartment proper. And then continue to rant. So I suggested (insisted) that work explosions stay in the car or in the hallway. I didn't mind hearing about it in a calm manner but I didn't want to be flooded and overwhelmed with those negative emotions. I was working on my PhD at the time so I had my own pile of negativity, worries, concerns, anxieties, etc. that would diffuse as I was driving home. My drive was longer

By the time we hooked up, I had been through a series of relationships (including a few long distance ones) and I had a really good idea of what I didn't want in a partner, along with the types of behaviors I couldn't tolerate. Ours is the only relationship he's ever had (I've got 8 yrs on him) so he didn't have anything for comparison, except his isolated life in the holler.

There was a bit of "you're not my mother" from him so I've learned to bite my tongue. And there are still contentious issues... he doesn't always do things right away and then forgets about doing them (just do it when I ask or remind you, then you won't forget and I won't feel the need to nag). I've gradually reached a place where I ask once then not again, but not doing the task myself. We have a lot of unfinished projects at home

How come nobody gave up? Good question. I imagine it was partly because we learned each other's patterns pretty quickly and knew when to give the other space to cool off before we could have a good discussion. He explodes quickly and often and still then stews about it. I let it simmer for a long time then I explode but then I'm done and can move on to more worthwhile matters. So perhaps it was and still is because we each respect the other as an individual; we offer each other a sense of companionship that we haven't found elsewhere; we admire each other's skills, talents, etc.; and we appreciate each other's sense of humor (a quirky one that we share). He makes me laugh, which is rare for someone to be able to do. Cover all that with a sprinkling of love, but love isn't what gets us through the tough times. We did do and still do a lot of checking in: "Are we ok?" And it is fine to answer "No, but I'm not ready to talk about it."

I once read "Connection Parenting" by Pam diLeo. Much of what she discusses in there about parenting translates very well to other relationships - that relationships are all about making connections and taking the time to really understand the other person.